Eric D Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 (edited) Right guys, let me try to explain. But first of all, can I explain that I have significant interest in this subject matter as my wife is registered disabled and a very good friend of mine has severe disabilities. Second of all, I'd like to say sorry for any confusion. As has been suggested, the original message had to be rushed out by me on Sunday past in order to give enough notice of Wednesday's sale day. In hindsight I should have taken more time with the wording. Anyway... The situation is that, very annoyingly, the girls in the ticket office and stewards / turnstile operators are regularly faced with what can best be described as 'chancers'. Fraudsters would be another way of putting it. Things like out of date passes, using other people's passes and - shall we say - not being entirely truthful about age. We have tried cracking down on it, but other ways are still found to diddle the club out of money it so badly needs. We even know of a carer who sit up the back of the stand while the disabled person sits down the front. Apart from anything else, this is placing the disabled person at risk in the event of health issues or in an emergency. We also know of a disabled person who requires a free carer pass at Stark's Park but somehow manages to travel to places like Ibrox and sit alone there. Nuff said! It's difficult to put a figure on it, but I'd estimate that fraud in various forms has cost us a five figure sum this season. My job as CEO is to try to address that, and this policy change we are talking about here is just the first of several measures that will be rolled out next season. Before anyone asks, this will most definitely include closer monitoring of all concessionary admission. So those who have admitted in this discussion to 'trying it on' can expect to be challenged next season. Issue of complimentary tickets will also be significantly reduced. That said, there is another issue at play as well that is not linked to fraud in any way. It's simply that we were arguably too generous in the past with concessionary pricing. At very many places of entertainment eg some gigs, cinemas, other sporting events etc (Graeme also mentioned the Flyers), and other discretionary spending like eating out or buying clothes there are no / minimal concessions. I know that from personal experience. At a few others, both disabled person and carer get in free. That's very generous, but RRFC is unfortunately not able to stretch that far in its financial circumstances. We have therefore chosen the middle ground, and followed the steer given by disability organisations at our last 2 (very positive) disability audits...ie we will charge the disabled person the normal price for their age and offer a free carer pass, if required. I appreciate that the price adjustment just introduced appears severe. Arguably it is, but we are simply trying to align with the market norm. Issue of the free carer pass will be strictly regulated, and card use will be closely monitored via CCTV, it goes without saying that genuine carers such as Graeme P have nothing whatsoever to fear about this tougher regime as Raith Rovers FC will continue to do all it can to accommodate people with disabilities, limited only by the design of a century old stand! Just to try to clear up one other point... The website article reference to walk up concessions was intended to refer to Senior Citizens and Juniors. Disabled match day admission has always been different and that will change for 15/16 in line with the season ticket changes. In summary, 1. Our season ticket prices are aligned to age criteria only. There are no concessions for other categories such as job seekers or students. It's an attempt to keep the offering straightforward. The only exception to this principle is the free carer concession for disabled persons. 2. We are by various means tightening up on control of access to the stadium including by away fans, and other aspects of match day processes, to try to maximise match day revenues. I hope this helps clarify, and that readers will accept that the overall package of measures is ultimately in the best interests of RRFC and it's supporters. Once again, sorry that the original website message wasn't up to scratch. Edited April 24, 2015 by Eric D 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raithie Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 (edited) Thanks for the clarification Eric. Whilst I appreciate you'll be wanting folk to buy a season ticket rather than pick and choose games and pay at the gate but can you clarify if disabled fans can pay at the gate as a concession? Graeme_p's post reads as if he's spoken to the club and been advised they can. Apologies graeme_p if I've picked you up wrong. Edit: actually having re-read it it seems to have answered my question. Edited April 24, 2015 by Raithie 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beachbum Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 you beat me to it raithie with similar questions,must be telescopic 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 3) Normal season tickets are far more regularly abused. I know its common place for people who are not attending to give their season ticket to a mate. The season ticket is NON-TRANSFERRABLE. This is abuse which costs the club money. Good post, this is key for me though. I find it hard to believe that more disabled tickets are used fraudulently than normal season tickets. If disabled tickets have the persons picture on it, how can it be used fraudulently? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 See in the FFP that Thomson is almost certain to be at the Rovers next year as the number of appearances triggers an automatic renewal. Given Mckeown's previous comments about his being here next year (I think he might be on a two year) then that suggests we have signed up for next year: Callachan, Vaughan, Barr, Mckeown and Thomson (probably). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graeme_p Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Once again, It is great that the club has someone like Eric that will come on here. As I said earlier Eric had e-mailed me directly which not many clubs would take the time to do this. If fraud is a genuine problem then it needs dealt with. I appreciate the work the club does and have appreciated the benefits that my son has had over the years. This was always a great scheme and if it is genuinly being abused then I appreciate some will suffer as it is the clubs responsibility to balance the books. Its the same in all areas of life that sometimes the actions of chancers and cheats impacts on genuine cases. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brashy's Boots Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 So all your bluster about how I was hindering progress was a pile of nonsense then. Of course it's a fine line but people getting in for discounts isn't a new thing. Christ, 15 years ago I was lifted in for free every week! Clubs make their money from season tickets, the "walk up" fan is staying away - why do you think that is? It couldn't possibly be that the price of a ticket is too expensive for the shite they need to watch, could it? It costs more because life costs more. Really? I look around various other countries in Europe and I don't see them paying £20 for this standard of football, in fact I see them paying less for a better standard of football in some cases. We're being done. I, sir, personally couldn't give two shites if you think I'm a cad. Dry yer eyes. All my bluster? You were talking about cheating the host club to get in. I was simply pointing out that you appear then to be a fraudster. Our CEOs post about the challenges of running an operation shows that cheats in general (not just you, you roaster) cost clubs like ours significant money. Money which could be put to good use in one way or another. But so long as you're happy.... -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 All my bluster? You were talking about cheating the host club to get in. I was simply pointing out that you appear then to be a fraudster. Our CEOs post about the challenges of running an operation shows that cheats in general (not just you, you roaster) cost clubs like ours significant money. Money which could be put to good use in one way or another. But so long as you're happy.... You came on and said that people like me were hindering the games progress and when you were asked about the progress the game had made you changed your tune. Anyway, I'll leave you to it, good luck in recuperating your missing millions and driving disabled folk away from the game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoversMad Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 (edited) Great post Eric and well done for coming on here and explaining the reasoning behind the clubs decision.I suspected the clampdown was down to 'chancers' abusing the system and it seems I was right, so well done on trying to sort this out and hopefully you can do so with minimum extra expense caused to genuine carers such as graeme_p and Rovers_Lad. Once again the actions of a few 'chancers' spoil something for the rest, they are the ones any anger should be directed at, not the club through posts here or on the club's Facebook. Edited April 24, 2015 by RoversMad 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers_Lad Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 (edited) Once again, It is great that the club has someone like Eric that will come on here. it is on a random football forum but strange it does not merit explanation on the main website or dareisay fantalk which is a site used predominately by rovers supporters its a very politicianesqe response by eric one that gordon brown would be proud of Great post Eric and we'll done for coming on here and explaining the reasoning behind the club's decision. I suspected the clampdown was down to 'chancers' abusing the system and it seems I was right, so we'll done on trying to sort this out and hopefully you can do so with minimum extra expense caused to genuine carers such as graeme_p and Rovers_Lad. Once again the actions of a few 'chancers' spoil something for the rest, they are the ones any anger should be directed at, not the club through posts here or on the club's Facebook. think we all knew the reason behind the clampdown being abuse of the system but we all know the whole admission system is being abused but two categories seem to be taking the hit although its claimed the club have gone for the middle ground to try to clear up one other point... The website article reference to walk up concessions was intended to refer to Senior Citizens and Juniors. Disabled match day admission has always been different and that will change for 15/16 in line with the season ticket changes. so is that £9,£18 or somwhere in between? Edited April 24, 2015 by Rovers_Lad 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brashy's Boots Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 You came on and said that people like me were hindering the games progress and when you were asked about the progress the game had made you changed your tune. Anyway, I'll leave you to it, good luck in recuperating your missing millions and driving disabled folk away from the game. What the actual hell are you on about? I never mentioned disabled folk. I referred only to cash cheats, like you, who unashamedly confessed to deliberately defrauding other clubs. Away and sit doon. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brashy's Boots Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 And I think you meant "recouping", not "recuperating". I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Remember, cheats never prosper. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beachbum Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 According to this article in the Courier Rovers have around half of their squad out of contract this summer but it's going to be a waiting game for new faces. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzza81 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 And I think you meant "recouping", not "recuperating". I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Remember, cheats never prosper.If you had a choice between paying £8 or £16 for an away game at Dumbarton what would you rather pay? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graeme_p Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 If you had a choice between paying £8 or £16 for an away game at Dumbarton what would you rather pay? Depends on your view of fraud, theft and illegality I suppose. If you are entitled to a discount then fine. if you are obtaining a discount through mis-representation then you should be ashamed of yourself. This is no different from shoplifting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev23 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Depends on your view of fraud, theft and illegality I suppose. If you are entitled to a discount then fine. if you are obtaining a discount through mis-representation then you should be ashamed of yourself. This is no different from shoplifting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brashy's Boots Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 If you had a choice between paying £8 or £16 for an away game at Dumbarton what would you rather pay? I wouldn't lie to get in cheap. I'd actually choose not to go, and have done, for many seasons now. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raithie Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 What if you're outside the ground and a friend offers you a comp, would you take it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pride of Fife Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I usually take my grandads wheelchair through to Dumbarton, my friend drives which allows me to have a few beers in car, his free carer entry covers my petrol money. Other away days I pay the going rate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I usually take my grandads wheelchair through to Dumbarton, my friend drives which allows me to have a few beers in car, his free carer entry covers my petrol money. Other away days I pay the going rate. A bit fucking harsh your granddad not being able to get out of the house for half a day, what did he do to deserve that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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