Livingston - all the threads merged

[RedV]

IRONY ALERT.

You reckon? You're seriously trying to claim that ONE Livi poster has backed Massone to the hilt and mocked all dissenting voices on Pie and Bovril???

Try the vast fucking majority and you're somewhat closer.

[LLD]

Muggy, you need to read your Livingston history books. Go back as far as Bill Hunter. It is 14 years of debt payment avoidance. It isn't something new......it is the way they have operated from day one. No-one is really putting the cart before the horse here. This isn't an unfortunate support fallen upon hard times. This is an ongoing tale of a club that simply avoids the debts it accrues trying to be a big player. The supporters of Livingston could well deserve better. However, they have simply refused to learn the lessons from their own past, and in that respect, there is precious little sympathy to be had. Lets be honest here. If certain council members did not have huge LFC sympathies (and that opens a whole can of worms in itself), then this club would already have been wound up. It is being propped up by public money at the moment..........270k of it. The move from paying a year in advance to a year in arrears also meant that council members effectively wrote off 150k in income. I can't remember the council being so magnanimous with any of their other tenants debts. All this for an outfit that have linked the name of the town with deceit and corruption.........not sporting excellence.

I have a lot of respect for what you say on the subject of Livingston FC. I agree that it has been run without scruples up until now.

However, is that really the fault of the Livingston support?

Yes you can argue that it has been moribund but the reality of the situation is that rank and file Livingston supporters have never had any real part in the decision making process at Almondvale.

If we can get rid of Massone and start again then there might just be the chance that this can be addressed. In fact that's about all I have got to hold onto at the moment given that the situation appears terminal.

[Guest]

No way this is done by the deadline. They will come to an 'arrangement' and we'll get the same stories trotted out every couple of weeks - Livi on brink...bla bla...

I think you are absolutely right. Thet seem to be morphing into a pseudo council run/funded/underwritten but privately owned football club. It really is weird. Particularly if you compare it to Clyde where you have a real sense of a council that wants their money whereas WLC seem to be more interested in talking about wanting their money, but never being willing to go beyond talking tough.

You sense that no matter how bad it gets, as long as the money is owed to the council and not individuals, then the club is safe.

Livvy aren't "on the brink". They have set up home there. It needs to be resolved, but it is starting to look as if it will run on and on. Massone now seems to have settled on an 18 year old as his mouthpiece. He's got the word out that he is going to sign someone from Kenya..........and some of them are actually listening. The one thing that is certain is that the Massone resistance movement will fall apart very very soon.........you can sense that there are plenty around who are ready to buy into the next lie.

[Guest]

You could not make this stuff up. There are a couple of individuals here who must be bordering on the psychotic.

I refer you to posting 32. This is either post modern comedy, or is another of those "not quite right" English sentences which is a very real posting. It is (currently) the icing on the cake where a key ingredient of said cake is class A hallucinogens.

http://www.livilions.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=16288

Edited June 25, 2009 by Guest

[thruthenight]

OMG, you could not make this stuff up. There are a couple of individuals here who must be bordering on the psychotic.

I refer you to posting 32. This is either post modern comedy, or is another of those "not quite right" English sentences which is a very real posting. It is the icing on the cake where a key ingredient of said cake is class A hallucinogens.

http://www.livilions.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=16288

Yeah, I read that one. I just assumed it was someone taking the piss.

[Guest]

Yeah, I read that one. I just assumed it was someone taking the piss.

I'm not so sure..........

[jimbo]

OMG, you could not make this stuff up. There are a couple of individuals here who must be bordering on the psychotic.

I refer you to posting 32. This is either post modern comedy, or is another of those "not quite right" English sentences which is a very real posting. It is the icing on the cake where a key ingredient of said cake is class A hallucinogens.

http://www.livilions.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=16288

I think you probably know full well that D.A.D.2-2 has his tongue firmly in his cheek with that posting.

Don't spoil the respect I have had for your posts over the last few weeks. What massone is doing with the young lad is a disgrace and I think you will find that most of the Livilions fans are in agreement with this.

[Guest]

I think you probably know full well that D.A.D.2-2 has his tongue firmly in his cheek with that posting.

Don't spoil the respect I have had for your posts over the last few weeks. What massone is doing with the young lad is a disgrace and I think you will find that most of the Livilions fans are in agreement with this.

Please don't get too protective over this. The thread is comic genius. That is what i love about it. The "tongue in cheek" bit I seriously doubt.........simply because the poster seems to be 15 years old. I can (and do) drone on about the ethics of Livingston.........this thread has nothing to do with that. It doesn't demonstrate/re-inforce/underpin any of my concerns wrt LFC. It made me laugh out loud because it is so fantastically disconnected to reality.

Concerning the 18 year old who seems to be having meetings with Franchi and Massone...........that is an entirely different (and profoundly worrying) piece of business. What those people are doing manipulating (and it absolutely is manipulation) a young guy like this is beyond me. That this fantasist of an owner feels compelled to get his message out via a gauche and highly impressionable 18 year old raises all sorts of questions as to how desperate the regime has become.

I've heard that this Liz Franchi seems to be a fairly decent and well thought of individual. If that's the case, she needs to bring this nonsense to a halt, or get the hell out of her current role.

Edited June 25, 2009 by Guest

[licketysplt]

ffs

Edited June 25, 2009 by licketysplt

[Guest Wall E]

Yeah, I read that one. I just assumed it was someone taking the piss.

And you're correct.

[btb]

No way this is done by the deadline. They will come to an 'arrangement' and we'll get the same stories trotted out every couple of weeks - Livi on brink...bla bla...

Probably - WLC won't want to be left with a white elephant 10,000 seat football stadium and the SFL will want to keep keep the club there under some guise.

[RedV]

You could not make this stuff up. There are a couple of individuals here who must be bordering on the psychotic.

I refer you to posting 32. This is either post modern comedy, or is another of those "not quite right" English sentences which is a very real posting. It is (currently) the icing on the cake where a key ingredient of said cake is class A hallucinogens.

http://www.livilions.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=16288

That whole thread is unbelievably depressing (although I do think the post you referred to was a piss-take) as it shows just how easily Massone can shatter this alleged "unity" they've been crowing about for the last week or so.

That a number of these twats are discussing whether or not ANY player would be any good for them whilst completely ignoring the fact people have been waiting aeons for the wages they are legally entitled to is frankly sickening. These selfish little c***s couldn't give two fucks about the morality of the issue as long as they get what they want, and realistically that's been the problem with Livi from the word go.

I'm starting to join the Swampy camp here: f**k 'em. If they're going to be that gullible and grossly self-centred they deserve all they get.

It will be interesting to see how tonight's protest pans out now.

[Ever the Optimist]

Probably - WLC won't want to be left with a white elephant 10,000 seat football stadium and the SFL will want to keep keep the club there under some guise.

If Mr Sainsbury, or Mrs Asda comes along and offers several million pounds for the land, then make no mistake the ground will be bulldozed. WLC, just the same as any 'cash strapped' council don't care what's there as long as they can get some money from it. I'm not saying it will happen but it could.

I have a lot of respect for what you say on the subject of Livingston FC. I agree that it has been run without scruples up until now.

However, is that really the fault of the Livingston support?

Yes you can argue that it has been moribund but the reality of the situation is that rank and file Livingston supporters have never had any real part in the decision making process at Almondvale.

If we can get rid of Massone and start again then there might just be the chance that this can be addressed. In fact that's about all I have got to hold onto at the moment given that the situation appears terminal

It has been said on this thread before that the rank and file Livingston supporter has sneered at the rest of Scottish football for the last 14 years. In that same period the rest of Scottish football has told the rank and file Livingston supporter that one day it will all go tits up. When you started paying £3k a week to the likes of Scott Crabbe, chasing the mythical pot of gold that is the SPL then it was only ever going to end up in one scenario. When you got there and realised the pot of gold didn't exist the situation has only got a whole lot worse. But the point that is being made is that the rank and file Livingston fan has accepted this over the years. The simple way to have sorted it out would have been to vote with your feet and your wallets and change for the better would have happened. But instead the rank and file livingston supporters have behaved like sheep and/or emus. What totally bemuses me about the whole financial mess is that Livingston did this without having to shell out several millions of pounds on a stadium. Had your club had to do this then Livingston would have been defunct many moons ago.

That thread on LiviLions to me sums up exactly what the attitude of the rank and file Livingston fan has been like. There seems to be this fantasy land where nothing will ever go wrong and regardless of how desperate the situation is, the world will get better. Anyone who thinks that Livingston will come out of this with Massone on board is in serious need of psychiatric help. I agree with you LLD I don't think it is a completely hopeless position the club finds itself in, but it's not far off it.

Your club is in danger of eviction, has no electric(or has it been paid now?) a list of unpaid creditors as long as your arm, (surely it won't be long until the vatman comes calling), a chairman who has a season ticket for the sherriff court, staff who on a regular basis don't get paid on time, danger of SFL sanctions over the late wages and probably a transfer embargo coming etc, etc, and yet some people still think that the club has a future under current conditions. Livingston FC has been an experiment that has failed spectacularly.

For my own selfish reasons I wan't Livington to survive this season, but as each day the situation gets more and more surreal, it ain't gonna happen.

[jimbo]

That whole thread is unbelievably depressing (although I do think the post you referred to was a piss-take) as it shows just how easily Massone can shatter this alleged "unity" they've been crowing about for the last week or so.

That a number of these twats are discussing whether or not ANY player would be any good for them whilst completely ignoring the fact people have been waiting aeons for the wages they are legally entitled to is frankly sickening. These selfish little c***s couldn't give two fucks about the morality of the issue as long as they get what they want, and realistically that's been the problem with Livi from the word go.

I'm starting to join the Swampy camp here: f**k 'em. If they're going to be that gullible and grossly self-centred they deserve all they get.

It will be interesting to see how tonight's protest pans out now.

And it's beginning to piss me off the way folk on this thread are picking out one or two misgided fools on the Livi message board and by association imply that the fan base are behind Massone. Make no mistake the Livi support want this guy out no. We would prefer to take whatever sanctions are imposed rather than let him continue any longer.

Edited June 26, 2009 by jimbo

[RedV]

And it's beginning to piss me off the way folk on this thread are picking out one or two misgided fools on the Livi message board and by association imply that the fan base are behind Massone. Make no mistake the Livi support want this guy out no. We would prefer to take whatever sanctions are imposed rather than let him continue any longer.

Welcome to the new mythology: it's only "one or two" misguided fools.

Bollocks. I've been following that thread for months now, and the vast majority on it were dismissing fans from all other clubs as being "jealous", referring to this site as "Pish and Bile" (oh, the wit!!) not so long ago. The fact the penny seems to have dropped MONTHS too late with a number of you is no reason for congratulations. The fact it's so easy to turn you against each other again is staggering.

[Guest]

And it's beginning to piss me off the way folk on this thread are picking out one or two misgided fools on the Livi message board and by association imply that the fan base are behind Massone. Make no mistake the Livi support want this guy out no. We would prefer to take whatever sanctions are imposed rather than let him continue any longer.

Jimbo, it's you who is calling them misguided fools, not us. I was pointing out a thread and a comment that was either a piss take, or it wasn't. In the context of everything around it, it wasfunny. That is what football forums do. As anonymous individuals, we cast fellow supporters in any light we choose.

Livvy has become a pantomime where nothing is obviously a piss take. You really do have to do a double take on just about everything. I certainly didn't single out the young lad who has become an unofficial mouthpiece for Massone. Right reason or none, Franchi and Massone have deemed there to be value in meeting this kid, and filling him with bollox to pass on to the masses. Neither of them care a fig if the boy becomes the subject of ridicule in his own community. When they can latch onto someone with more say and sway, the lad will be cast aside.

Therein lies the heart of the issue. This forum (P&B) is commenting on stuff generated by that forum (LL). We are not fabricating this stuff. If you are becoming concerned for what you call "misguided idiots", then it's not the distribution network that you need to be getting angry with..........its the people who are creating it in the first place. And we all know who that is.... P&B is telling you what a cross section of fans are thinking about what is going on in all matters Livingston. It is not pulling lies from the ether. There is only one person who seems to be able to do this with complete confidence.

Livilions does tend to be fairly representative of the mindset amongst the support........not comprehensive, but nor is it annexed from what the majority think.

You are pissed off because you reckon we've picked on the "misguided idiots" unfairly. I hope you are as vocal, and I hope you get as pissed off for the people who have been (and continue to be) ripped off by your club over many many years. Believe me, when you get that sort of treatment, you have something to be really pissed off about.

Edited June 26, 2009 by Guest

[Monster]

I agree with Red V.

What's worse than a chancer looking to asset strip a club is that club's supposed fans giving him their support. How much more obvious does it need to be that the guy is a chancer?

Didn't pay a bill to 'show the fans the club couldn't survive without him'?

The very fact that any of you are still willing to give him any benefit of the doubt is particularly sad.

As for using that 18 year old....disgusting.

[ObserverFromAfar]

I have a lot of respect for what you say on the subject of Livingston FC. I agree that it has been run without scruples up until now.

However, is that really the fault of the Livingston support?

Yes you can argue that it has been moribund but the reality of the situation is that rank and file Livingston supporters have never had any real part in the decision making process at Almondvale.

If we can get rid of Massone and start again then there might just be the chance that this can be addressed. In fact that's about all I have got to hold onto at the moment given that the situation appears terminal.

Based on the photograph on your avator, I presume you followed Meadowbank Thistle and recognise the fall out and falling of standards and governance in the running of the operation from around 1991 to 1995, and the much much worsening of the financial mis-management in 14 years since 1995? If it has been run without scruples for the last 14 years, what has made you stick around with Livi and not walkaway?

"If we can get rid of Massone and start again..." - why not walk away now and help out LIvingston Juniors, and implement the priniciples of the Trust's philosophy and business case there now? How many "start again" situations are needed? How much local and central government tax payers cash needs to be invested in Stadium and written off/refinanced? How many mores rounds of Administration and "debt write offs" need to be incurred by the businesses and suppliers to Livingston FC, beofre this experiment can stop? 1? 2? 3? 4? 5? 6? 7?

What was foreseen by the Thistle Action Group, The Thistle fanzine and the vast majority of Meadowbank Thistle fans about the almost inevitable pipe-dream and consequential crash that may be on the verge of happening, that you did not see then, have not seen over the last 14 years, but now see today?

[KingfaetheSooth]

I have a lot of respect for what you say on the subject of Livingston FC. I agree that it has been run without scruples up until now.

However, is that really the fault of the Livingston support?

Plenty of people say they are just supporting their local club but this was a club that was moved for financial gain against the wishes of their supporters. I've said it before and I'll say it again - what goes around comes around.

I think you are absolutely right. Thet seem to be morphing into a pseudo council run/funded/underwritten but privately owned football club. It really is weird. Particularly if you compare it to Clyde where you have a real sense of a council that wants their money whereas WLC seem to be more interested in talking about wanting their money, but never being willing to go beyond talking tough.

You sense that no matter how bad it gets, as long as the money is owed to the council and not individuals, then the club is safe.

Too many people at the Council have been involved in the theft of another football club to bring Scottish league football to the town of Livingston. They have vested interests and reputations to protect - no doubt some of the councillors love the free nosebag they get at Almondvale on Saturdays - they will bend over backwards to save the club.

[KingfaetheSooth]

Based on the photograph on your avator, I presume you followed Meadowbank Thistle and recognise the fall out and falling of standards and governance in the running of the operation from around 1991 to 1995, and the much much worsening of the financial mis-management in 14 years since 1995? If it has been run without scruples for the last 14 years, what has made you stick around with Livi and not walkaway?

He'll trot out some nonsense about wanting to take his son to watch local football.