repeat_offender
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Posts posted by repeat_offender
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Ah, good old Leeds. Only their supporters are incapable of celebrating without invading the pitch and assaulting people!
I suspect you'd like that to be the case but we both know it isn't.
Are you suggesting that he didn't assault the goalkeeper? If so, why did he plead guilty to... ermmm... assault?
You said only Leeds supporters are incapable of celebrating without invading the pitch and assualting people. That isn't the case.
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Only their supporters are incapable of celebrating without invading the pitch and assaulting people!
I suspect you'd like that to be the case but we both know it isn't.
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Viitorul never turned up for todays pre season game, to give the fans something to watch they're putting on a Leeds vs Leeds match.
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Not sure we've turned the financial corner just yet, from the pre season tour of Italy.
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Yes. It's a car crash waiting to happen. The ever discerning Leeds support barely seem to be able to muster a question of complaint at what's happening. Very obvious that their club is being fleeced. Oh well, giggles for the rest of us.
The club has been systematically fleeced since 2007, during that time there have been various groups set up to challenge the club (LLHB, T4K for example & to a degree LUST) protest marches, boycotts, protests at the stadium etc, I think the whole dissidents, moron, sickpot thing must have passed you buy.
The club was financiallly crippled before Cellinos arrival and the team was abject. It's to early to say if he'll be able to improve the situation or not. I'd accept there has to be concerns over some of his decisions and his past but he'll have to stand or fall by the decisions he' s made at LUFC. I haven't see one piece of evidence to suggest he's fleecing the club yet, we'll know more when we see the accounts.
On the Leeds fans not making their feelings known to Cellino I think you'll find that in the past he was chased round the West Stand Car Park by Leeds fans and he had to be rescued by West Yorkshire Police.
When we wanted rid of Bates it took time to realise that he wasn't interested in fans opinions he just wanted their cash, fans voted with their feet and Bates needed out. We've been through it before and know we can do it again if we have to.
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BBC Sports Journo Adam Pope Interviewed Cellino, during the interview Massimo claimed that Leeds are now debt free and have £20 million working capital plus the unbudgeting income from the sale of Ross McCormack https://twitter.com/APOPEY
Quote a turn around from the financial news from LUFC just 2 months ago. Seems we've done a deal with GFH to free up cash, not sure I'd want to get any further into bed with that lot and that only partly explains our latest financial position.
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Seemed a funny situation at the tail end of last season with Butland coming in and taking the number 1 shirt. Was Paddy Kenny injured throughout that whole period?
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Paddy Kenny has been told to leave because he's come back obese, not because of his birthday
I suspect the terms of his contract has a lot to do with it, rumour is he's one on a decent contract.
Re the pre season footage of PK, don't know for sure but wasn't it established the video footage recorded had been distorted?
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Without going through the last few pages, has anyone seen the BBC story about the Leeds squad being asked to bring a packed lunch and wash their own kits to cut costs?
Yes, probably not a big thing on this thread because given the chaos at LUFC at the moment it hardly even registers.
As an example of another mad story that hasn't been mentioned here over the last 24 hours it seem LUFC's 1st choice Keeper Paddy Kenny is out of favour with LUFC because he was born on the wrong date. Our current owner thinks anything related to the number 17 is bad news.
Same story with the colour purple apparently.
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Roy Keane, is new coach at Leeds. This chairman has to invest in some quality players or they are relegation favourites, fucking Roy Keane lol.
No he isn't.
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A birds eye view of ER in the 1960s:-
I used to love the players training on Fulerton Park, you could queue up for your tickets and then watch the first team practice, also I see the beck behind the North Stand which I think has been undergrund since the M621 construction.
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What gets me is why would Haigh run back to dubai when GFH ofered him a job.
I just dont get that at all, why would you walk back into a firm that you were sacked from i know i couldnt and wouldnt do it.
The square ball link into who owns what doesnt help either.
Agreed, makes no sense to me either.
Innocent or just naive, can't make my mind up which.
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It's hard to separate the facts from spin from memory it seems to have gone like this, so many parties / individuals with their own agendas.
Cellino metions in WLR interivew that Bates & Haigh are working together, Moscow White's piece you posted above seems to support that.
Cellino sacks Haigh and reports Haigh to West Yorkshire Police for fraud, Haigh then claims that drugs were consumed in the Elland Road Boadroom.
Somewhere in this SC & Haigh issue a winding up order on the club.
Cellino calls in foresenic accountants to investigate the clubs finances.
Haigh says on twitter that he intends to do a series of interviews whcih will blow the lid on the Leeds story.
Haigh is offered a job by GFH and is arrested for fraud, money laundering and embezzlement when he lands in Dubai.
Latest tweets from Adam Pope claim the amount in question is £4 million, and the national fraud Burea have reffered the case to WYP.
Seems clear to me Cellino suspects foul play & has reported David Haigh to WYP for fraud, I suspect there is more to this than meets the eye. It would have been interesting to hear Haigh's side of the story but I suspect that's never going to happen now.
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Earlier in the thread a few of us were scratching our heads on the back of club losses, a couple of Adam Pope's recent tweets might shine a bit of light on that.
The UK's Action Fraud confirm they have received a report of allegations of fraud & embezzlement made against ex #lufc MD David Haigh.
#lufc David Haigh remains under arrest in Dubai, without charge, on allegations by GFH Capital of fraud & embezzlement of almost £4m.
For me the finances have never added up since admin in 2007, I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out the clubs been skimmed for years.
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Saw that as well.
Was waiting till the june 14th date to renew my season ticket but may have to look at it again if no debit card payments allowed.
Saying that the winding up order is june the 9th so may be back up and running by then.
Also Cellino may pay off the £957000 bill due to Haigh by then.
It's tough for those that don't live close to pay by cash, the Zebra finance deal is a good one and I've used them before without a problem.
The whole winding up order seems a bag of snakes to me & complicated at the moment by Haigh being in the clink in the middle east.
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Credit & Debit Card sales for season tickets suspended http://www.leedsunited.com/news/article/livwmyrumf151xcipqpi9ig11/title/201415-season-tickets-card-payments
Zebra finance for me I think.
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I agree the Regional Members Clubs have a role and are great at what they do, one thing they are not however is independant from the club.
A truly independant oranisation is important in my view, we should have been organised collectively a long time ago.
We've endured a string of pretty rank regimes at the club in our recent history (on reflection not so many good ones since SIlver) and it's only in the last couple of years that fans have become organised and started to ask questions of owners.
I can't see the club being owned or allowing LUST a shareholding at the moment but who can say what the future holds, if an independant fans group were to hold a share in the club I'm not sure that would be a bad thing. I'm sure the Swansea fans doubted in the past they'd have a share in the club and they seem to have eclipsed us recently and from memory they hold a decent stake in the club.
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Gary Cooper is only in it for one thing and that is his own over inflated EGO.
LUST are a complete waste of time always have been always will be as long as he is in charge.
The sooner LUST is dissolved the better.
Each to their own and all that but I have to say I disagree re Gary Cooper and LUST.
They aren't without fault and I think they'd hold their hands up to that but on the whole I think their presence has been a good thing. Bates used propganda very effectively & independant voices then were few and far between, people like the square ball and lust were valuable in that respect for me at least.
I don't know Gary but he seems to me to a bloke who's willing to put in time and effort and I applaude that, I know him and his family have received some flak as a result of his role at LUST and for me that's unfair.
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GFH have really fucked us over
They're not alone there.
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Still in financial dire straits it would seem.
I realise the graphics below are from 1 specific season only but I'd say they've been about par for the course / division for every season under Bates since admin in 2007. Makes you wonder just where did all that money go?
From Swiss Ramble
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He should be able to pay off most of the debt, plus he'll get rid of the majority of the squad (apart from McCormack, Byram, Mowatt, Smith & Pearce)
According to Phil Hay in the YP today that wouldn't be cheap http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/sport/leeds-united/latest-whites-news/leeds-united-mac-hoping-cellino-will-stand-by-him-1-6574739
Cellino is aware too that the idea of culling large swathes of United’s under-performing squad would be costly in practice. Numerous players are out of contract in July but the majority are tied to Leeds next season. At least 15 members of the senior squad are understood to be earning £10,000 a week or more, and the total wage bill at Elland Road is close to £20m. Cellino needs deep pockets to overhaul the club as drastically as he would like to.The article makes pretty grim reading.
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He won't leave, Cellino won't let him.
Cellino gave that impression during his infamous WhiteLeedsRadio conversation with TNS, lets wait and see, the financial situation at Elland Road was dire make no mistake.
Cellino on the McCormack transfer (from whiteleedsradio interview, credit armchair white for the transcript)
MC “I worked there I said, no season ticket. Why [we have to rush?] Do the supporters get season ticket in February, its not fair. The season ticket you have to sell in May when they know which division we’re doing. When we’re going to tell them what we’re doing. When we’re going to buy back the stadium because the stadium belongs to Leeds, not to the fuc***g people that ‘s threatening our stadium. Then we start the season ticket. In May. I no, I never did season ticket in February. What we should do that? And they told me, “because we don’t have the money to pay wages”, I’say ‘I pay the wages’ but we don’t pay the season ticket, OK?They was going to selling McCormack to Cardiff, for £4,000,000. I stopped them, I said I don’t sell. A nice player, we shouldn’t sell.[unintel] … only one boot [unintel] we’re selling that. .
TNS “yeah”
MC “We’re selling it”
TNS “So you stopp….”
[crosstalk]
TNS “You stopped the transfer?”
MC “Yes. Call McCormack. Ross. I tell him. The 31st of January, he came in Leeds, OK, 5 o’clock in the afternoon. He came to talk with me, to ask me to be transferred to Cardiff for four million pound. I told him, “Get the fu*k out of here, I don’t sell anyone,. Go to train yourself”
TNS {laughs} Go on Massimo, good man. Good man.
MC {excitably] Its all good. Its all good. [unintel] Its like if you have a bar, [or a pub?] and you sell your refrigerator to buy the beer. Where you fuc***g put the beer if you don’t own a refrigerator any more? [unintel] the assets of the team are the players, not the employees, not David Haigh*** If you have the good player [unintel] All the wages that they pay, that’s investment, that’s [unintel] because they’re the guys that make us laugh, that make us enjoy. The players, the good ones. Why you have to… I sell the bad ones, the good ones, I keep.
He's going to need deep pockets to dig us out of current financial mess.
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Haigh walks, spy cameras in the boardroom and the bogs, WYP called in to investigate theft, never a dull moment at LS11 http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/apr/11/leeds-united-managing-director-resigns-massimo-cellino-david-haigh
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Well at long last we have a new owner, just need the FL to ratify it.
Lets hope it also kicks the players into gear starting at watford tonight.
Have to admit the last trip was fine apart from the football but thats what you get following any team the good and the bad and boy have we been bad.
I have to say I wasn't surprised when I saw the result.
You'd hope the team would be able to get something out of Blackpool at home on Saturday but they way the team is performing at the moment nothing would surprise me.
DId you hear the WLR interviews with Cellino & Bates? Jaw dropping stuff right enough!
The latest breakdown of the clubs holding company accounts make grim reading (breakdown from the supporters trust).
Accounts here http://www.scribd.com/doc/217018247/Leeds-City-Holdings-Ltd-Report-and-Financial-Statement-Year-Ended-June-2013
Trust financial analysis of LUFC account 2013
FINANCE UPDATE - 2013
Now that the latest accounts (to June 2013) have finally landed we have undertaken a review and have the following summary for our members.
HEADLINES
- Turnover decreased by 8% from £31.1m to £28.6m (compared to 4% in 2011/12)
- Gate receipts decreased by 17% from £11.3m to £9.7m (compared to 12% in 2011/12) with average attendance down by 7.7% - perhaps reflecting lower ticket prices as a factor
- Staff costs to turnover ratio increased from 57% to 70% (51% in 2010/11)
- Overall admin costs increased from £9.8m to £13.3m (£8.6m in 2010/11)
- “Unknown” admin costs increased from £5.2m to £6.2m (£4.5m in 2010/11)
- Directors received £794k compared to £347k in 2011/12, with one director awarded a £440k bonus.
- Yorkshire Radio has had an impact of £1.5m on the loss in the year as LUFC have been forced to write off all the amounts they were owed by them.
- Profits from net player trading of £2.0m helped reduce the overall loss from £11.6m to £9.6m.
- The current debt stands at £24.7m compared to £14.6m on a like for like basis 1 year ago
- Money gained from the court case win against WYP (of £1m) was put towards clearing payments of the preference shares – controlled by Ken Bates
These accounts show the situation at Leeds United as at the end of June 2013 which was before the widely reported further funding that has been injected into the club by Cellino, so in all likelihood the debt has grown since.
Despite what has been claimed, GFH have actually invested nothing into Leeds United but have instead loaded further debt onto the club and managed to record the biggest annual loss since 2004 (the immediate post-Ridsdale era).
While Ken Bates and Shaun Harvey were in control for 50% of this period and undoubtedly laid the foundations for the performance in areas such as the decreased gate receipts, it is only during the second half of the year that we see the debt escalating at a pace, which would suggest that this is when the costs started to spiral. As we have stated in the past, it was always our view that performance was going to be worse in 2012/13 (had the old regime remained in place) than the season before it, but even we are shocked at just how dramatically it has deteriorated.
Summary of Leeds United Football Club Limited Numbers
Excluding Player Trading
2013 2012 Variance Variance £’000 £’000 £’000 % Turnover 28,568 31,080 (2,512) (8%) Cost of Sales (5,558) (5,582) (24) 0% Admin Exps (33,304) (27,672) (5,632) 20% Operating Profit/(Loss) (10,294) (2,174) (8,120) (374%) Staff Costs 20,004 17,828 2,176 12% Other Admin* 13,300 9,844 3,456 35% *Includes: Rent 1,893 1,861 32 2% Depreciation 1,477 1,193 284 24% Accountancy Fees 140 112 28 20% Other Known 3,570 1,444 2,126 148% Unknown 6,220 5,234 986 19%Post Administration Figures for Leeds City Holdings (Excluding Player Trading)
2013
2012
2011
2010
2009
2008 £’000 £’000 £’000 £’000 £’000 £’000 Turnover 29,322 33,097 34,475 27,533 23,535 23,249 Cost of Sales (6,190) (6,559) (6,376) (5,883) (4.930) (4.166) Admin Exps (33,760) (29,557) (26,486) (22,789) (21,384) (18,217) Operating Profit/(Loss) (10,628) (3,019) 1,613 (1,139) (2,779) 866 14 months
Turnover
Turnover has steadily declined since its peak under the Bates Regime back in 2011/12 season, as some fans decided to vote with their feet in order to protest against the running of the club. This meant that we were always expecting a fall this season as GFH were tasked with trying to repair the relationship with the fans. Gate receipts fell 17% and account for £1.6m of the £8.1m increase in losses during the season. Unsurprisingly merchandising fell by a similar percentage (and added a further £875k to the deficit); the remainder of the Turnover items (TV revenue, Central distribution and Commercial activities) more or less netted out meaning that total decrease in Turnover accounted for £2.5m of the overall increase in losses.
Wages to Turnover
While turnover decreased, the badly needed investment in the playing squad did happen. However, the figures suggest that it was more of an investment in total number of playing staff rather than an increase in quality. The overall squad grew from 46 playing staff (including apprentices) to 58 during the year (a 26% increase). Overall wages increased by 12% in comparison; there was some reduction in other staff, but given that the largest part of the wage bill relates to Playing staff and management (which also increased from 17 to 20 people), it seems safe to assume that the average amount paid to the playing staff actually decreased.
While we have always called for an increase in the wages to turnover ratio, the method under which this has been achieved during the year in question is not really what we had in mind. With turnover down (by £2.5m) and the number of playing and management staff increasing dramatically (at an additional cost of £2.2m), the ratio went from 57% to 70%. It is highly unlikely that Leeds United will have the lowest ratio in the division anymore but, while the quantity side of this equation has been fulfilled, the quality of the additional spending does not seem to have noticeably improved. We would not call for this ratio to be exceeded next season (or beyond), in fact if anything it needs to decrease, but we would definitely suggest to the new management that a reduction in quantity and increase in quality needs to be the focus.
Costs of the Directors has increased dramatically which can largely be explained by the increase in number of Directors, as well as the significant bonus payment made to one of them (£440k).
Other Costs
It is this area where we have seen the most shocking situation. We have always maintained that the ‘other’ costs at Leeds United were excessive, therefore to see a £3.4m increase in these was deeply concerning. In terms of the increase, we can see that £1.5m of this relates to a one-off cost associated with the closure of Yorkshire Radio (where the debt owed to Leeds United by the radio station had to be written off), a further £0.6m relates to increased admin costs associated with player transfers and £0.3m relates to the legacy of Bates building works. The remaining £1m of additional costs is unknown, taking what was already a bewildering £5.2m figure up to £6.2m. Undoubtedly much of these are likely to be legal costs associated with the takeover but it seems any hope of light being shed on these unknown expenses under the regime of GFH has been disappointingly shattered.
We still believe this is an area Massimo Cellino can find savings in and hope that it will go some way to reducing future losses.
Cash
As we expected cash has been in short supply at Elland Road, and this became even more apparent with the recent reports of a wages crisis at the club. Given the huge increase in costs and the reduction in revenues this is no surprise, but it is obviously a situation that cannot be sustained. Just how close we came to another Administration event may never come to light but the accounts reflect a situation where the club was living a hand to mouth existence for some time and this situation would have had to come to a head but for the introduction of a new cash injection.
Group Companies
The Group situation is perhaps the one area where it appears that GFH took the painful decisions and acted correctly. Yorkshire Radio was closed down having made further losses (which impacted the football operations) and some consolidation appears to have occurred making the family a bit more manageable in size. However, the eternal promise made by Ken Bates regarding non matchday incomes has still yet to materialise as the combined efforts of the non footballing side of things resulted in a turnover of £754k and costs of £1.09m (an overall loss of £334k).
Debts
In six months GFH appear to have added a further £10m (net) to the debt left behind by Ken Bates, much of which is in the form of short term loans. The list below details the current situation regarding debts at the club.
Preference Share payment to Lutonville £0.1m Ticketus 2 LLP Loan Repayment £2.3m Compass £1.3m Brendale £11.3m Berrydale £2.0m Director Bonus £0.2m Sport Capital £1.8m Working Capital Shortfall £5.7m TOTAL DEBT £24.7m
If the contingent payment of £4.8m to the Administrators is included this figure increases to £29.5m (assuming we get promoted by 2018).
Conclusion
If we thought when we parted company with Ken Bates that things could not get any worse, that has quickly been dispelled by these numbers. This does not mean that Ken was in anyway better for the club, nor is he absolved from blame in our opinion. Many of the issues relate directly to the state of the club that he handed over (falling revenues, disgruntled fans) and the long term decisions he took (Yorkshire Radio and the building obsession), but what is clear is that GFH did not seem equipped to manage these situations and had no obvious plan to do it. They took over the club with no funding and have had to react to each cash crisis as it arose by finding loans as and where they could. It seems obvious why they needed so desperately to sell. However, perhaps the profitable running of the club was never a real concern, as the GFH financial statements appear to show that in spite of all this they have managed to make a profit out of this sorry state of affairs. GFH reported that they made a US$6m profit out of their holding in Leeds United by selling shares in the club (Leeds United Holdings) to strategic investors. Like Leeds United, those investors seem not to have been quite as fortunate as GFH in terms of profit as reports suggest the club has been sold to Massimo Cellino at a value nearer to what they originally paid.
As is always the case finances never tell the full story but, while GFH do not appear to be able to run a profitable club, they do seem to be able to make a profit out of a loss making enterprise.
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The Leeds Thread
in Misc Other Fitba Chat
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Wouldn't bother me either way.
This thread is for Leeds fans and those with an interest in Leeds to exchange views and to post & read info relating to the club. Those that aren't interested can simply choose not to open the thread if that's the way they feel.