energyzone

As with most clubs at our level, the finances are anyone's guess. I do know of sponsors who paid for an advertising board 3 years ago who weren't asked to renew last season or this, yet the boards remain up. The home crowds are poor and we are going to miss the travelling supports of the premier league. At least we are only losing games by one goal (I know that's not a good thing) and are scoring....but can't really see much hope for a change in fortune going forward.

I had a look at the records after reading this and discovered that apart from the WOS Cup in 2008, the last major trophy Kilbirnie won was the SJC in 1977. Almost half a century ago. Very poor start from Kilwinning with only 1 point out of 9 so far.

I thought the same when Kilwinning played at Hurlford at the end of last season - I could hardly see the opposite touchline for the last ten minutes.

The management team were fairly animated on the sidelines, albeit I don't really pay much attention to the benches. I do think players should be problem solvers on the pitch and for the majority of the second half our two strikers tried the same thing over and over again without any success and without much help from the midfield. The squad doesn't look great I agree but it's early days. How much was TC sold for?

I couldn't really work the team out on Tuesday. We started the game well enough and it looked like only a matter of time before we scored. We could have probably had 4/5 in the first half had we taken our chances (although both strikers look rusty). Maybole were well organised and didn't really provide much of a threat in the first half, but we totally lost control after the break and we were lucky not to concede 2 or 3. I couldn't work out the tactics up front - both Mackin and Boyd were playing on the last line of defence and the only method of attack seemed to be for one of them to flick a long ball onto the other.... except they were always running in opposite directions. There was a huge gap behind the strikers which meant Maybole gathered it easily when the attack inevitably broke down. I have no idea if Mackin's disallowed goal was offside or not, but the lack of assistant referees was another reminder of what level we find ourselves at. This might prove to be a long slog of a season. It's clearly very hard to attract quality players at this level unless you are offering hundreds per week.

I get that but your last sentence probably explains why you are happy with the status quo - you've seen your team win leagues, the junior cup and compete in the Scottish Cup without having a big cash injection. It's easy to say you don't want it when you don't need it. Clubs like Beith and Talbot are very much in the minority though. The vast majority of clubs at our level exist from year to year with very little money and very little chance of making it to the Premier League. Offer fans or the committees of Saltcoats, Lanark or Maybole the chance to have 4-5 years in the limelight and a few trophies and I doubt you'd get the same rejection.

I suppose it would be worth asking a Kilwinning fan from 1999 onwards - was it worth it given the 10-15 years which followed? I imagine a good percentage would say yes. Meadow perhaps slightly different as they never won the Junior Cup but they won the league, played at Easter Road and had some great experiences around a decade ago. When you say self-sustainable I'm not sure what you mean? Both clubs along with Hurlford, Whitburn etc are still in existence. But with a few more trophies in the cabinet than would otherwise have been the case. There is a lot of anguish and hand-wringing on this forum whenever a club receives investment and starts paying large amounts for players but not one of the posters here would turn it down for their own club.

Have a good time. Let us know what you thought of it.

Great publicity for the First Division and should help boost crowds at most of the grounds when JB play. It's done, so let's look at the positives.

They want to be able to hoard the best of Scottish youth talent whilst having their A Team in the Premiership and their B Team competing at the top of the Championship. It's really just to earn them more money through attendances and sell-on fees. Using the development of Scottish talent is just an excuse for this. They were proposing a cartel and fortunately they were told where to go. The effective relegation of 200+ clubs and the subsequent deprivation of players to existing SPFL clubs wouldn't have bothered them in the slightest - to them Celtic and Rangers are Scottish football and I suppose in many ways they are probably not far off.

Where does the money come from? They don't have much of a fanbase to contribute yet they have been signing quite a few players over the last few days - some from clubs higher up in the pyramid.

I went to the recent Troon v Kilwinning match with a friend from work who loves Scottish football and played for several clubs when they were Junior clubs. He had no idea that the Junior Cup was no longer what it was, and was amazed that the winners of the West/East/South leagues played off to be promoted to the Lowland League. I kept having to explain to him what the pyramid was and how all the leagues (are supposed to) feed into each other. Sometimes I think we are in our own bubble here and the advertising and messages from this level really don't get through at all to the wider footballing support. I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that most Premiership fans don't have a clue about the current B Team proposition or that we are (mostly) all part of the same league structure now. I would imagine even a lot of fans at this level don't truly appreciate how devalued the SJC is now and how the top East teams and quite a few West ones no longer play in it. We do, because we post on this forum and maintain an interest, but I would reckon a lot of fans of clubs at this level aren't that informed about the politics and just want to support their team.

I don't think anyone is asking them to justify their existence. In fact I think clubs like Gartcairn and Bonnyton should have a senior side to provide a full pathway from their youngest boys clubs to senior football. After all why should they coach players from the age of 4 and then lose them to other clubs when they get beyond U19 stage. You mention Talbot and Pollok not being reliant on attendance money, which is true, but the fundraising these clubs carry out is dependent on their numerous fans buying merchandise, and so on. Most of the sponsor opportunities/activities mentioned above are already carried out by 'older' clubs so it's not as if Gartcairn are breaking new ground on this front. Fans of these clubs are more than welcome to defend/explain the funding but I also reserve the right to be sceptical about whether we are getting told the full story. But as ever, as long as the funds aren't illegitimate then it's a fair game.

Thanks. I can't recall anyone down here in Kilwinning taking about going to watch Eglinton but they were an amateur team I believe not that long ago and amateur matches here do attract decent crowds on occasion. Still not sure where the more successful 'new' clubs get their funding from. Same with some of the Lowland League clubs, e.g. Caledonian Braves. As far as I can see none of them have a huge fanbase to draw funds from and I can't see many sponsors choosing to advertise at the newer grounds. There are some decent established clubs at this level who seemingly can't compete with the offers made to players by some of the newer ones even when a fanbase and sponsors.

Do the newer clubs who tend to play in these cages have much of a fanbase?

That defeat did knock the stuffing out of us, along with the 5-4 defeat at Hurlford, the last minute goal conceded at Arthurlie and last night - a game in which we had enough chances to win by a wide margin and were by far the better team. Last night summed up our season pretty well - we can score but we concede early and often. I can't fault the effort of the players and some of the passing and movement was very good. But we can't afford to miss a penalty at 1-0 down and waste umpteen chances and then expect to win. Although I am still scratching my head in amazement at how the referee and assistant missed the clear handball by the Troon player immediately before giving Troon a penalty for handball. No wonder Mark Millar went off his head. It was clear that a reset over the summer was required a while ago and hopefully the manager is given the chance to stay (and actually wants to stay). He looked drained when he left the sidelines last night. In a way it was a bizarre season, good performances in the cups while we dipped dramatically in the league. First appearance in the Scottish Cup. Chris Strain winning the league with his new club in a game against us. The chairman resigning. Looking forward to a few new places to visit next season however I'm not sure how easy it will be to attract decent players at that level without being significantly financially backed. As an aside, £8 for that entertainment last night - despite the result and the significance of it - is by some way the best value in football. My £25 for Rugby Park on Saturday won't come near it.

Who isn't showing humility?

All the outrage and mouth frothing is coming from people who are acting like Darvel are involved in genocide instead of just trying to buy success for a football club.

Same again on Saturday if you don't mind please!

Hopefully Talbot can do us a favour tonight and on Saturday.

That will be that then.

I actually thought Aldin was a good stabilising influence last night apart from one moment of indecision. Last night was the Lewis Morrison show and had we not been playing against him then the defensive mistakes may have been mitigated against. I actually thought the team fought really well considering we were 2-0, 3-1 and 4-3 down. Ben Lewis and Gavin Millar dragged us back into it, and we are essentially playing without a striker and badly missing both Mackin and Collins, both of whom probably won't be back at the weekend. I agree with the other poster that we should have Ben providing a shield in front of the defence and at least tightening up at the back before even thinking about what we are going to do up front. Looking at the fixtures at the moment I am wondering if Beith will have a chance to win the league and relegate us on the same night. Which would be interesting...

We didn't deserve to lose that at all. A few defensive errors and playing against one of the best strikers on the league (who should have been playing for us) cost us tonight. If we apply the same effort to our remaining games then we still have a chance. Great entertainment but a really sore one given our predicament.

Great final line up on a Friday night at one of the best grounds at this level. Hopefully the crowd is a healthy one. Is the capacity limited at all?

Beith aren't showing any signs of stopping - that was a good victory away at Meadow Park tonight. Am I right in thinking if Beith win the league they don't enter the playoffs due to being unlicensed? So it's 3 relegated and 3 promoted from the league below? And if Darvel or Talbot win the league and the playoff, how many teams are relegated from the Premier League?