PeeTeeJag

It would worry me if I was a SevCo fan that I was now being asked to invest in the club. When Green came in he said he had 20 investors but didn't want to say who they were whilst the CVA hadn't yet been decided. We still don't know who these people are or if they exist. My guess is there will be a minimum investment required from the fans shares. Shares that will probably give them no say in the running of the club anyway. So let's say that the min. investment is £100. How many fans will take up these shares? Let's be really generous and say all 50,000 that fill the stadium invest £100. That's £5 million. But surely these 20 investors must have put in at least a £1million each. Therefore that's £20 million + £10 million from season ticket sales = £30 million. Why then the need for fans to dip in their pockets again? I could walk passed Ibrox sometime this season, buy a programme, and have spent more money on the club than Green has. This is what SevCo fans seem to not understand, or not want to understand. THEY are keeping the club afloat with their season ticket sales, etc but no matter how much they want to keep the club going they can't give enough to keep it going for long without investors putting in serious money. And this just isn't happening. We are now 20 years down the line from when the question should first have been asked, and yet we still have no idea what the answer is, and incredibly no fan is willing to ask for a straight forward answer to a straight forward question....................... Where is the money?

ie, only people that don't agree with you that there will always be a rangers.

RANGERS have confirmed they have appointed a firm to explore options for a share issue. The club have deployed London-based (Edinburgh offices) Cenkos Securities to "assist with plans to raise additional capital". (beg for more money, even though Green hasn't put in a penny of his own.) Chief executive Charles Green said: "From the day the consortium I led became owners of Rangers we (I) have repeatedly stated our (my) intention to raise additional capital (fleece more money) for the club (me) and would explore all avenues,(am getting desperate) which may or may not include a stock market listing. (probably not though.) "We are (I am) pleased to announce that we (I) have now appointed Cenkos Securities to assist with our (my) plans. "We are still in the preliminary stages of this process and will make further announcements once the club has been able to consider its plans in further detail." (I'm still making it up as I go along and will let you hear more hairbrained schemes to screw every last penny out of those idiots, sorry fans, when the club has been able to consider how fucked it is.) Green's company bought the assets and business of the original Rangers for £5.5million when the administration-hit club was consigned to liquidation in June. Green has been seeking investment (thought he had 20 investors?) and has long stated he would give supporters the opportunity to purchase a major stake in the club. (coz if they don't he'll claim THEY killed the club.) I think that's Charles Green's latest sermon sorted with the bullshit meter switched on.

How long before Tedi "ignores" the Mayans?

Could you wear a tshirt saying "I am Tedi" so we know who you are? Maybe your carer could have an "I'm with stupid" tshirt. You really are a bit dim aren't you? I said I could wear the tshirt at Firhill on sunday, but you still want to know the date and venue!!!

The second sentence does have english words in it, but still doesn't make sense.

Might actually get a tshirt with "I was ignored by Tedi" printed on it, and wear it at Firhill on sunday, just to see how many people smile knowingly.

You are correct. But, what you are leaving out is that whatever monies or gains are made by such activities are taken from the company that benefited from these acts. For example, say a director does a few dodgy deals on his own and pockets the company £20 million. He's found out to have acted illegal and gets his collar felt for it. Does the company (that according to you wasn't to blame as he acted alone) get to keep the money? Eh, no they don't. And the award they won as top trading company of the year because of the money he brought in from his dodgy deals, or whatever, is taken off the wall Rangers benefited from illegal activities both financially and and in awards. They shouldn't get to keep either. If you stole a tv and dvd player, and you got caught a few weeks later by the police, would your missus and kids still be allowed to keep them because it "wisnae anything tae dae with them"?

Are SevCo fans being so ignorant of what's going on because they can't face the prospect of living without a team to support? Is that how it works? If we keep turning a blind eye to everything then it won't happen. Cool. My gas and credit card bills came in the post yesterday. I'll just not open the envelopes, put them in a drawer, and everything will be fine. Thanks Tedi for clearing that up for us all.

Ally today hitting back at criticism of players who left SPL clubs to join rangers. Some great quotes. "They have been accused of going for the money, which is absolute nonsense." "And, even if it was the case, they are quite entitled to do so because, in any other profession or walk of life, you would look after your family." "But it's interesting to note that the vast majority who had a go at David Templeton for coming don't know the club and have never played the game." "Now I'm not saying you have to have played the game to know the game." "It's bizarre. I have noticed that in some sections people are annoyed at the way our fans have reacted." "We are where we are. We said we would accept it. The fans wanted it and the fans got it." Aye, but, no, but, yeah, but, um, but, well, but, er, but, oh, but............

Doesn't matter who it is. Roman or Greek empire, Ravenscraig, Clyde Shipyards, etc. Just because at the time you can't imagine whatever it is not being there in the future, does not mean it will always be there. As I said, if I had posted 10 years ago that in 2012 rangers (sevco or otherwise) would be playing in the 3rd division (and not topping the league) NO ONE would have believed it. But it's happened.

Remind you of anyone?

Don't ask him questions he doesn't like to hear himself answer wisbit.

My point was Tedi, that no one thought Enron would collapse. But it did. But hey, don't worry about it, I'm sure if I had said to you 10 years ago that your club would be playing in the 3rd division in 2012 you wouldn't have believed that either. But guess what? They are.

My question was - So what your saying is that there is absolutely nothing that the club could ever do that will see it no longer exist? Do I want the club extinct? Honestly? I don't care. Yes, you read that right. I don't care. It's a football club. A game. Would I be gutted if Thistle went to the wall. Ofcourse, but it wouldn't change my life that much. Would I be happy to see an end to all the baggage the comes with rangers and celtic. Most definitely. Would I be glad to open a paper and not have wall to wall coverage of some overpaid player's view on the world of football? It would be refreshing. Would the whole school breath a sigh of relief if one or two school bullies got expelled never to return? Ofcourse The problem that we diddy fans have with the OF is that for many it is their life, not just a team to support for a couple of hours on a saturday. You ruffle our hair, and pat us on the head when we air our opinions because we all know that only two teams matter in Scotland, and the rest are just making up the numbers. What do my thoughts on your club matter anyway? Your views on my club would mean nothing to me. But then I don't believe that just because someone isn't a Partick Thistle supporter, it means they hate the club. Do I love my club? Yes. Would I still support my club if it was renowned for it's sectarianism, fighting, filling up A&Es and police cells? Definitely not. Even if I didn't partake in any of that, I would still feel guilty by association.

Yeah I did. Pull the plug. Are rangers bigger than Enron was? Not even close. But you'll find there is no longer an Enron. A company that was massive even by American standards. Nothing is forever, no matter how much you want it to be. "they also need clear business plans submitted, neither of which we had." You still don't have a business plan submitted!!!

You are right, I don't converse with people that would rather not answer the question put to them for fear of them having to give an answer that they themselves don't like.

And that's exactly why you are in the situation you are in!!!! If George Bush had turned up instead of Green, the fans would still have given him their money, despite being warned by people who have had previous dealings with him, not to go anywhere near him. How would the club go under? I'm sure we are always being told on here that there will always be a rangers. I'll give you another option. Get your millions of fans around the world to put £1 each in to an account and buy the club yourselves. It's a loyal support and would willing put up the cash. Oh hang on, I forgot that's been tried before. Oops. Alternatively, admit the club can't be saved and do the decent thing and pull the plug. Then why don't you ask Mr Green where his business plan is?

So what your saying is that there is absolutely nothing that the club could ever do that will see it not longer exist?

Would any other club or it's supporters have fallen for Green's words and promises as quickly as the SevCo fans have? I highly doubt it. They were that desperate to save the club that they were left with the last man standing and had no other option but to put their faith in him. Green has played the fans perfectly. He's push all the right buttons when it comes to getting them onside, even if it means appealing to the lowest common denominator. A number of SevCo fans on here have stated that they don't trust Green, but they will still hand over their cash to him and hope with fingers crossed that he isn't pulling a fast one. But what if he is? Questions like that on here are usually batted away by SevCo fans as speculation, shit stirring, and nonsense. But isn't this all a little familiar? A number of years ago when questions were being asked about how OldCo could afford all these high earning players, the people asking these questions were being shouted down and ignored as either anti-rangers or just jealous of the club's success. Even when Craig Whyte was being challenged on BBC we had the siege mentality evident by some of the comments from OldCo fans. At times when the question has been answered the reply is usually along the lines of "we'd run him out of town!!!". Understandable, but then what???? SevCo are becoming like the Titanic and Gr£tna. The Titanic sank because of a failure by many to heed warnings that they ignored over and over again. I mean, what were the odds of an iceberg hitting??? The ship plowed on at full speed as the owners wanted to impressive everyone, but all the while they had hidden how badly she was put together. And as for Gr£tna........ Many took an interest, just like in SevCo, not because of a hatred for the club (more of a dislike), but because it seemed obvious to everyone outside of the club and supporters that it was all going to go spectacularly wrong eventually. No matter how much it was pointed out to fans they were too busy enjoying the ride, ignoring evidence that even Stevie Wonder would have seen, and as long as they didn't think about what was going on in the background, they were happy. But when it did go wrong, the fans were all confused about how it had happened and it came as a shock to them. But to nobody else. I used to work in construction, and I know of many guys that have no life or accident insurance. The reason? They feel that it is tempting fate to get these things because then they will have an accident. Weird, but a very common thought. SevCo fans are the same. They may not trust Charles Green, but they feel as long as 40000 keep turning up and supporting the team then everything will be fine. Fans of Sheffield United warned SevCo fans before Green took over what to expect from him, and he has been everything they said he would be. It's as if the fans are saying "if we ask questions and he gives us truthful answers then that brings everything to a head and will put us in the shit. Best to leave it alone and hope it never happens." We have to trust the guys that run our clubs to do the best they can for the club and it's fans. I don't know a single SevCo fan that trusts Green enough to say that. They trusted Murray, but it wasn't until he left that directors, journos, etc started to say they've had doubts about how he ran the club for years. Craig Whyte is being slated for using money that wasn't his to buy the club, and then was going to use season ticket money to pay back that loan. Plus his promises of investors and a warchest. Yet, what exactly is Green doing with all the season ticket money? Where and who are his investors? What is happening to all the money at Ibrox the fans are putting in? No one knows except him, and he isn't for telling anyone. If you believe this post to be pish, then that is your right. But I have yet to see any SevCo fans post any factual evidence to show that Green is the man to lead the club forward and isn't dodgy. When the whole support is unanimous in it's concern of Green, then that sends out alarm bells. Maybe in some perverse way the level of bullshit coming out of Ibrox just now is too much for the fans to comprehend, and they can't believe that someone would have the balls to dupe them again. Again. Let's be honest we diddy fans would love to see SevCo go tits up, and Celtic for that matter. Neither set of fans can grasp this concept, and never will. But just because we may not like your club and it's support, that doesn't mean that what we are saying is untrue. Trust has to be earned, and from what I can see not only has Green not earned that trust from the fans, he hasn't even tried to earn it. He said that he didn't want to name his 20 backers until the CVA was decided. Well, it's been decided, yet still no names. Why? Bury your heads as long as you like SevCo fans, but eventually you'll have to come up for air. When you do will you spend your time arguing with everyone on here about how everything is speculation and dismissing them because they aren't a SevCo fan, or will you do what NO ONE else is prepared to do, and demand answers from Green? It is after all YOUR money!!!

Bocanegra deal not went through yet. Maybe going back to SevCo. Fans welcoming the possible news. I wonder if Green is so happy about his wage coming back with him?

And still the fans of SevCo and Celtic wonder why we despair of them both. Very few places in the world can be like Glasgow where this pish goes on. "Oh we can't have him investigating because he went out with a girl from Parkhead in 1985." "He'll only side with SevCo because his great, great grandfather had a paper round in Govan." Even if the lawyer turned out to be a Jags fan he would still get accused of biased by one of the cheeks. FFS people let's just get this sorted out once and for all and move on. You do realise this is 2012 and only those people that shouldn't be allowed out on their own still care which foot you kick with?

Ahhhh Charlie Green. Promises the fans the earth, brings in "quality" players on long contracts more suited to a higher league, says he's working side by side with the manager but nobody believes it, getting too involved with the team, making statements about investors that don't materialise, blames others for the club's position, lies to fans and players, not trusted.................. Sorry, did you think I was talking about Charles Green of SevCo? Not at all. This was Charles Green of Sheffield United. Totally different guy. Having the same name is just a coincidence. This Charles Green had people thinking for a couple of seasons that everything was going great at United and that investors were ready to sign on the dotted line. Unfortunately it was all bullshit and he had to get a police escort when he eventually left with a nice little pay-off in his sky rocket. Loved the limelight did this guy. Forever making bold statements but wasn't too keen on proving what he said. Even said someone had signed a 2 year contract that day, but when the other person was asked about that they knew nothing about it. Don't worry SevCo fans, I'm sure it couldn't be the same guy.

You are right. It is very clear. The SPL were due to pay an outstanding sum of money to Rangers, but Rangers no longer exist. "The Rangers" are not "Rangers" therefore are not eligible for the money. If you do a job for me and I owe you money, but before you can collect you die, however a mad scientist clones you, do I owe the clone money? Nope. He maybe identical to you, but he isn't you, therefore isn't entitled to be paid by me. So are rangers still rangers and therefore should be punished for EBT's etc, or are they a clone that although identical in every way to the original, doesn't have it's history? Gonna have decide soon which it is I'm afraid.

Exactly. The money due was to OldCo. But as they owed money to other clubs, the SFA said that they would pay the money to the clubs and whatever was left would go to OldCo. That way ensuring the other clubs got the money. This in effect was instead of OldCo getting the money and then them giving it to other clubs because OldCo couldn't be trusted to do that. All things being equal, OldCo would have been given this money, banked it, then distributed it to whoever they owed wonga. At this point it became OldCo's money. However when OldCo no longer existed, the SFA had no club to give the money too. SevCo, despite how they want to dress it up, didnt get 2nd place in the SPL last season. So, as the money that the SFA still had in their account was still theirs then they didn't have to hand it over to anyone. The confusion comes when the SFA told OldCo they would pay the money to other clubs first and only then give OldCo what was left. This is what Green is still pandering to the fans with. Firstly he is saying that HE had paid all the outstanding debt, then we discover that this wasn't quite accurate and that he expected the SFA to pay the clubs. Again inciting this siege mentality among the fans. Green's comments akin to "why should we pay for the sins of a club that wasn't us", "We're still the same rangers" etc, etc only confuse matters further. The club is either still rangers and therefore must keep it's titles but be hammered by law, or it's a completely new club that can't be blamed for what the previous club did, and has no titles. An example of this is the Homebase that used to be at Braehead. It lasted a couple of years, was getting massively in debt and had to be sold to B&Q. All B&Q did was change the name of the place. The building was exactly the same, and they kept on the Homebase staff. Did B&Q incur Homebase's debts? No. Just the building, equipment and employees. If a company called "Homebasics" had bought the place over instead would they still be regarded as "Homebase" but just under a different name? No. If Green wants to kid on he gives a shit about the club's history then that's up to him. But he also knows that with all that history comes a shitload of hassle that a completely new entity doesn't have hanging over it. More importantly investors will be watching with interest how this develops. They don't want to put money into a club that has a blackhole of debt that their cash will just disappear into. Green knows that eventually he will have to concede that SevCo is an entirely new club, (he's probably known this from the start), and will blame all and sundry for this whilst making out he has tried his best for the club and fans. The fans meanwhile will insist that no matter what this is still the same club they have supported all these years. Fair play to them, but it will be only them that will believe it. Everyone else AND the record books will show that rangers football club died in 2012. I do admire the passion of some of the SevCo fans, like Tedi, No.8 etc but sadly in this day and age passion isn't enough to keep a club going when it's been so badly run for 20 years. How long will it be once Green leaves before he is saying that he tried as hard as he could to save the club, but the fans, players, Sally, ex-board, SFA, SPL, Obama, Kylie, tea-lady, made it an impossible task?