RedRob72
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Posts posted by RedRob72
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She's smarter than all her opponents that's for sure. We'll have a referendum when the SNP think the time is right whenever that may be and the greens will help to vote it through.
Alex Salmond on the news there, reckons Autumn 2018.0 -
Yes you do keep saying this but it has no basis in reality. A referendum will happen when the SNP and the Greens decide they want one.
Relying on the handful of seats the Greens occupy at Holyrood isn't a convincing argument. A 2nd Ref may happen once the terms of Brexit are settled at WM. It isn't going to happen before then, Wee Nippy might be eager to pacify those separatists frothing at the mouth within her support, but reckon she's smarter than that (I think)!0 -
You had the opportunity to fill Holyrood with regionalists who would oppose their own country's statehood and sovereignty. You failed, and instead a party won which pledged to hold a referendum if BritNat separatists outvoted Scotland and decided to remove our European rights. You were thrown under the bus by the very British nationalism you hold dear (not that that will ever have a loyalist like yourself questioning how things work). You really need to accept that you were shafted last year, and that putting your fingers in your ears and screaming "but we won in 2014!" won't protect Scotland from the apparent evils of statehood (which is of course a good thing for everywhere except Scotland, because King Billy and that).
I know you don't want an iScotland led by the SNP - in fact, you don't want an independent Scotland at all, ever. Instead, you want a Scotland that is dependent, and don't care who governs it or what they do.
The Scottish Ref and the EU Ref were very different questions/options for all Scots. I keep saying the Scottish Gov will now have to wait in order to hold sway until Brexit terms are finalised. Another Ref then? yep no problem. The rest of your predictable guff doesn't come into it. I think spitting feathers in the meantime will keep you happily occupied.0 -
Not sure if I'm going to be able to cope anymore without digital timetables at bus stops. Probably because I only got a 2:2.
You had a good time at Uni then WB?[emoji6]0 -
I wouldn't want a mass exodus of unionist Scots as they are Scots at the end of the day and will contribute to making a success of an independent Scotland. There wont be anyway. My point was that the SNP and political policies have absolutely nothing to do with why you'll ALWAYS vote no.
Aye, a lost cause perhaps, that doesn't mean I would want iScotland to fail if indeed a 2nd Ref went that way.
I'm not sure that would be reciprocated however in the event of a repeat No vote.0 -
You don't want an i Scotland full stop regardless of the party and even regardless of whether it's proven to be the best thing for Scotland. You've already admitted this, you'll never vote yes because of history, family connections etc, which is fine. I've no problem with you being an no voter for emotional, british nationalist reasons but don't try and pretend that politics, parties or policies have even the slightest bearing on your stance.
Yes it would be difficult to envisage Scotland leaving the Union, but I'm not so blind to the possibility of it actually happening. What then for millions of Scots? We try and make it work, it's a simple as that.
I don't see a mass exodus of Unionist Scots saying 'f*ck this we're off'!
We have too much invested in Scotland to just pack up and leave you to it, whoever is in pole position at Holyrood.
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'It rarely answers the question' what does that even mean?The Ref result was decisive, the appetite for another shot at independence is of course still seductive amongst separatists, just not the rest of us. I'm ok with the way things are, seems to be the view of the majority in Scotland for the time being also. I understand how frustrating that must be for you.Yes, you point that out every time you resort to straw-clutching. Unfortunately, it rarely answers the question, and smacks instead of an admission that 2014 is all you cleave to. I'll ask again why independence under the SNP (even for the short term) elected by the Scottish electorate should be worrisome, but dependence under the Tories (which looks to be long term) rejected by the Scottish electorate is not.I do not want an iScotland led by the SNP, is that so hard for you to accept and understand even if you disagree personally?
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You realise you could vote for another party post indy, right?
Whereas the Tories are in charge of old Blighty for the foreseeable.
There isn't much of a choice at present Fide!0 -
No worries about the potential damage of dependence on continual Tory governments which knows they can rule Scotland without Scotland even voting for them?
The ability to govern a country and control its budget and international affairs even if it comprehensively rejects you at the ballot box seems like a pretty lousy idea to me - which is probably why no countries are leaping at such an arrangement.
We voted to remain within the current system fairly comprehensively in 2014.
Yes I appreciate that the Brexit decision will have swayed some towards Scottish Independence, but I believe the outcome and future implications of leaving the EU should be clear before we go again with a re-run.0 -
So who knows what damage independence may cause = bad
Unknown implications of Brexit = acceptable.
Got it.
Edit for not being particularly fair to you, sorry. Can't help it.
That's not quite what I said is it?
1) Potential damage under SNP leadership post independence.
2) Naturally cautious until Brexit implications are clear0 -
I think that if people say, i want to stay in the UK for emotional or patriotic reasons then its hard to argue as many people want independence for the same reason.
It's a fair point I understand that completely.0 -
Being half Yorkshire, I spent a good chunk of my nipper-hood down south. Seabrook are rather baws nowadays but they were a thing of wonder back in't day.
We had a supplier down in West Yorkshire a few years back who would send us a mixed box up the road. The straight Cheese and Onion were the proper business.
Tayto's C&O over at my Grannies were a favourite too back in the day.
Walkers C&O have always been in a blue bag, as my memory serves me.0 -
So you feel that Scotland will flourish as an independent state then?
I gave my own reasons for supporting the Union on this thread a few days back mate, it's just going over old ground.
Yes, Scotland has the ambition and resources to stand on its own two feet.
I think it might be an uncomfortable ride with the SNP steering the ship to begin with though. until another party managed to build enough credibility to take the wheel.
How long could that take to happen though and what damage might be done in between? No-one knows. I think we will remain naturally cautious for the time being, particularly with the implications of Brexit still to emerge.0 -
Are we going to be an economic basketcase after independence or not? Make up your mind.
I've never said I think Scotland couldn't go it alone post independence, my preference would be to stay within the Union however.
Your assumption is incorrect.0 -
Anyway, we're wanted...
http://www.thenational.scot/news/15089828.Europe_s_chief_Brexit_negotiator_says___We_need_the_Scottish_people_____we_cannot_afford_to_lose_that_/?ref=twtrec
Europe's chief Brexit negotiator says: 'We need the Scottish people ... we cannot afford to lose that'
Someone's gonna have to step in to hold up the Euro project, with economies like Spain, Portugal and even Italy feeling the strain. 40 years ( or what's left) of Scottish oil revenues/dividends might just help to chip in, assuming the price hits its usual level again, which it will?0 -
We will follow on....
It was something like that.. Gracchus I think?0 -
Serious answer. Because the SNP government have a mandate to do something they are not obliged to exercise that at any particular time.
IMO we are still in the 'phoney war' stage of the Brexit negotiations. People are still unaware of what the real economic impact of leaving Europe will be. Once this becomes clearer people will be able to take a more informed decision, personally I think that will increase the support for Independence.
As I say this is just my personal opinion.
Seems fair enough, guess it could work the other way too, given the precarious position of some other EU members and the stability of their respective economies.0 -
You don't have to be a genius to realise that based the last SNP manifesto they have a mandate to call a further referendum. Sadly some posters on here are at the opposite end of the intelligence spectrum.
Serious question, what is she waiting for then, if she has such a clear mandate? She's blown any involvement in the Brexit process, it continues to gather pace without her, why not just call it now?0 -
Why not? It is after all part of the Brexit 'problem'.
It's not so much the "vote" being intact, but rather the machine capable of drumming up the vote that you should be concerned with. Labour are on their knees, with little in the way of elected officials, or 'big beasts' to wheel out, or money or even stomach to fight another referendum. The Tories are not yet rehabilitated as human beings still, in large parts of the electorate. The Lib Dems are an irrelevancy. So far much of the pro-Union 'campaigning' such as it's been, has been carried out by Scotland in Union, a well funded organization of ultra-Yoon dingbats who are unlikely to rally the majority.
Much of the solid pro Union vote is in the older segments of the populace, Yes was marginally ahead last time in much of the working age demographics. The Unionists would be concerned at bleeding any more of that away, as they are already pretty maxed out in the older demographics anyway.
Much of that is true perhaps and the reason Teresa May will not want to be forced to fight on two fronts at present.0 -
We still live in a democracy. You can only refuse if there is a reason to refuse - such as not having a mandate - which the SNP have.
Both Holyrood and Westminster can wrangle over the timing, but that will almost certainly back-fire on the Unionists as it will be looked upon as a refusal to hold indyref2.
And to be honest, the longer it takes to hold indyref2 the better for Nicola, as she will use the refusal to her full advantage and privately would rather we held it later anyway.
I really can't see Westminster refusing on the granting and timing on indyref2 unless they know they can't possibly win anyway.
I think now IS probably the best time to launch a 2nd Ref, whilst the Unionist vote is still pretty much intact? As mentioned previously, I just can't see the UK Gov giving the go ahead amidst sorting out the Brexit problem.0 -
Well, it 100% seals the Yes vote whenever it happens, so the waiting game becomes a very easy one to take part in. It's far and away the worst thing anyone interested in keeping the union together can do.
Aye I agree I'm afraid, but I said if you put the consequences aside for a moment, what would ACTUALLY happen if the UK Gov flatly refused a 2nd Ref until the terms of Brexit are agreed with the EU?
Does the SNP simply agree, then sit waiting in the wings for a couple of years?0 -
The easiest way for Yes to win this is to try and get the UK Government to try and block the request for another referendum - that should seal the deal.
May will request that Brexit terms for the whole of the UK are in place first. Sturgeon will refuse, then what, 2/3 years of stalemate?
Serious question, put the consequences aside for a moment, if the UK Gov refuses to approve a 2nd Ref what happens next?0 -
In much the same way that UKIP ceased to exist once the UK voted to leave the EU.
After independence, the SNP would continue to exist to ensure that it was not some watered down semi-independence.
Can you name any country that gained independence where the leader of the ruling party then said:
"Job done. My opponents can run the country now - I am away fishing."
"You and an army 50,000 strong will march on Rome, and then simply give it back to the people" ??0 -
Not at all, it's an appreciated reply, I've friends who have followed the same route. We agree to differ and get on with it. Their arguments are sound enough and the choice is up to them. There's an equal number of our SC that just don't feel that way.No piss take or riducule from me either mate. What you say comes across as heartfelt. Even if I disagree with you, I respect your opinion. What I would say is that the way you describe your nationality and feeling is probably where I was at maybe 25 to 30 years ago. I too, come from what could be described as a traditionally "unionist" background.I found that once all the history and emotion had been taken away and things were looked at rationally, it was pretty clear that our part of the union (and other parts also) have had a raw deal. They have been asset stripped of people and materials for f@ck knows how long. All for the benefit of one small corner of this union.
That made me angry. I looked into it. After generations of blue and red tory governments, it became pretty clear that nothing could ever be done to reddress the situation from within. My views gradually (gradually mind) changed. Independence for Scotland is the future. Just my personal experience so don't bite ma heid aff.[emoji14]
We all Follow Rangers btw, I know that the pigeon hole is important to some on here , in that we're all the same, it isn't true.
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When will indyref2 happen?
in The Politics Forum
Posted
His take not mine, he has been wrong before, believe it or not.