renton

Yeah, or they don't offer anything better than what other first division clubs already have. A guy like Allan Walker is still probably first divison level, and a couple of years back he banged ina good dozen league goals from midfield and is always good for a half dozen goals at this level, so it's not lacking the ability to play at this level, it could be more the fact that they don't have an edge over other players at the same level, so when they are released by us, they aren't good enough to go up the way and there is no room for a sideweays move either. So it's down a division. Another guy in that mould for me is Johnny Stewart who we had briefly on loan from hearts, looked comfortable as a first divison player but is plying his trade in the second with East fife. I think if you look at it, we've sent Baird, graham and Tade to the SPL, Mensing and Dyer went 'sideways' to other first division clubs and the rest all dropped a division.

Well, Mensing ended up at Livi, though you could say that doesn't count since we actually offered him terms to stay. I think it is a bit of a general trend over the years, Murray last year and McGlynn definitely in the years previously managed to get more out of the team than the individual components in them would suggest they should've.

Is actually a very cultured finisher fo the ball probalby the most natural in our squad when we had him, but generally last season was used to link midfield to to attack and this often had him, back to goal and doing a lot of spade work for others. Don't think ye olde poacher's game really suits him now, but he'll certainly add something to your attack.

Agree with this, if it were a case that the unit and the system was poor, or that the players were of a general poor quality the I'd be more worried. Individual mistakes tend to be spectacular and stick in the mind, but they are exceptional and can be cut out far easier than can a piss poor system with shite players.

Steady on. We have certainly brought in quality with respect to last year's team, but then we are already playing catch up to quite a few other teams.

Precisely, it was a friendly, a chance for Murray to see what works and what doesn't and as good as Cardle was, we need to know how the team will play when he's not in it.

Sack the manager! Sack the board! Sack the players! Burn the ground down! Salt the earth so that nothing can grow again! Some of the over reactions to last night did border on the hysterical, apparently due to a healthy dose of assuming that because of Hearts playing their younger players and having financial worries, that they should've been push overs. I don't suppose there is any use in pointing out that a lot of these guys played a full season in the SPL, that guys like jamie Walker, Jason Holt and David Smith were usually the best players in our team when they had them on loan, or that despite a tough season last year, that Hearts team could realy turn it on - witness the last season turnaround against an in form Ross County for example. Allowing for that, we contained hearts reasonably well, and were undone largely by some brutal individual errors. The first and last goals we could've done better as a team, sloppy attempt to clear the ball for the first goal with McHattie free at the back post and the fifth one was a good cross and an unmarked header, although being in the dying minutes and 4-0 down already may have affected the teams concentration anyway. Goals two, three and four all involved individual mistakes: Laidlaw is not a bad keeper by any means, but should never have let the second squirm under him (Dougie Hill was unlucky not to have intercepted what wasn't even his ball to chase in the first place) and the fourth, he's parried a shot back out in front of him, which was suicide. In both these cases the Hearts forwards are moving quickly and it's simply beyond our first division defence to keep up with them - they were almost certainly a faster team across the park than Hibs were. The third goal was simply a brutal mistake by Watson, who let the ball bounce and got caught on the hop by Jamie Walker - not a guy any central defender wants to get caught chasing towards their own goal. Livi fans are adamant that watson will leak goals, it was certainly not a dream start for the guy, but for the benefit of the doubt, I don't know if he's even had a training session with us yet, he didn't look sharp - although he did have a couple of nice tackles, and does want to try and play the ball a bit more, rather than the 100% gaurenteed hump up the park. So what were the positives? Our midfield looks a damn sight stronger than at any point since we came back up. Cardle caused problems all day long, and will be the main creative force in our side: Either going outside to the byline or cutting inside and linking midfield to forward he gives a lot of options for the team. On the other side Anderson gives us strength and pace and tracks back well. His final ball is stil la bit of a lottery. In the middle Moon and Fox look like a decent partnership. They position themselves well both in offence and defence and Moon in particular looks a real good player. Always makes himself available for a pass, good at breaking up play and getting forward when he can. Another big positive is Callachan coming on to a game. Looked very asusred when he was on the pitch, and looks like he can push Moon and Fox for a starting berth. The trialist looked decent in the wee spell he wa son, I think he does offer us a differnet style of play which could be useful in the long run. Up front, Elliot did a lot of useful work in the build up, his strength helped hold the ball up and his use of the ball was generally smart. Goes down a bit too easy and moans a lot. I think he'll be a Hislop type character: is gonna split opinion, wil do a lot of good work but maybe not grab that many goals and will get pounced on by the home support for the first little mistake. Spence and Smith are similar players: Spence is faster, Smith is stronger. Between the three of them I'd expect us to score goals, but we've chosen friendlies that does limit our forwards sight of goal. Having said that we did produce some decent chances that went begging more to do with split second decisions, either going to early or the corss going in behind the forward line, than any basic iincompetence fromt he forwards. I'd be more worried if we were skying the ball over an empty net six times per friendly. So yeah, we had a lot of neat possession, worked some good chances, looked comfortable in midfield for the first time in a few years and got undone by a defence all at sea. We can cut out the individual mistakes and McGurn and Ellis can come in for Laidlaw and watson if need be (albeit that would be harsh given it was a friendly). I'd be far more worried if the general quality of the players wasn't there, and if Murray was suing a bunk system, but we looked pretty good on the ball and used it generally quite well - particularly in the first half.

Nothing official but I have a pretty good source (they've been bang on about everythign so far this summer) who reckoned we'd offered him terms.

I think Campbell may initially have been a loan from St Johnstone in the latter half of the 05/06 season?

I'm fairly sure it wasn't. Last I heard - just before we signed Cardle - was that we were waiting on a decision from a centre back, so who knows what the situation is now.

Given your track record are you not as likely to drink the Rohypnol yourself?

Should is always the operative word, which renders your previous statement about needing someone 'who will score goals' superfluous since you don't know that the current signed players won't, and can't be certain either that any alternative you can think of definitely would either. Chances in both friendlies were at a premium, playing teams who's quality is far in excess of anyone we are going to play this year. Friendlies are simply not a good barometer for how a striker is likely to do in front of goal. Either you are playing a side much better than your own, in which case it becomes a battle for midfield, your strikers get starved of service and drop deep, or you are playing a side much worse and it becomes a turkey shoot. The last three or four years have not given an acucrate representation of how our strikers are going to perform when the league starts.

We have three signed senior strikers, someone 'who's going to score goals' should be covered by that. While we definitely need a centre back, and I'd need to see the guy play a bit more, but he looks like he could give us a different option, a plan B, which we haven't always had. Something to think about.

Yeah, I think Murray is aiming for something similar to the Dunfermline team from a few years back with two out and out wingers and two deep lying ball winners in the middle.

Thought there looked to be some decent promise in the team, given the difference in fitness levels and quality we coped reasonably well with United. The link up play was a bit rusty but there was also a fair few intelligent composed touches from back to front, not too much hoofball either. Spent some time watching the central midfield pairing of Moon and Fox quite closely and thought they looked decent together. Moon was the more impressive of the two,constantly battling putting in some decent challenges and recycling the ball well. Didn't get too much chance to make any forays into the final third, but cut loose a bit more in the second as the game stretched. What was impressive was how Moon and Fox kept their positioning as well as they did, in terms of reading the game, mobility and keeping the ball, they look a class above the central midfield combinations of the last few years. It looks like we'll be pretty dangeorus up the flanks, having a left back willing to push into the box has been a bit of a novelty for us since Marco Pelosi and Booth looked pretty good. Cardle was obviously a touch of quality above and beyond the rest as expected. If we are going to play with two wingers and two attacking full backs then our central midfielders will end up being ball winners and play makers, rather than the old fashioned 'creative' midfielder type or even the late run into the box type player like Walker was on his good days. Elliot is a bit of a tank and was getting a few niggly fouls that the ref decided not to blow for, did well overall and had a huge part to play in the build up for Spence's goal, who continued as he left off from last season. Smith came on and was feeding off scraps a bit but got himself about quite well. I think Murray will give him a start in the next couple of games and we'll probably see all three strikers rotate into different partnerships to see what works. Both Hill and Ellis coped reasonably well, though we'll still need another centre back (Donaldson came in to cover there tonight) HIll is a decnet centre back who does have a decent range of passing as seen from his part in the Spence goal. Callachan came on and fitted well into the setup - unlucky with his driving shot with the United guy on the line. Overall, lost 2-1 but not disapointed. Looks like we could have the promise of a decent team there.

Certainly the team looks good on paper. Who'd have thought the team would have been gutted as much as it was from last year. Looking at a probable starting eleven from last year, and comparing it to this year: 2012--------------2013 McGurn----------McGurn Thomson--------Thomson Ellis---------------Ellis Hill----------------Hill Malone----------Booth S.Anderson----Fox G.Anderson----G.Anderson Walker----------Moon Graham--------Spence Clarke----------Elliot Hammill--------Cardle That's a 55% Turnover in playing staff. Bare in mind that we are still in for another centre back so that figure could easily rise to 63%. Notably it's 83% of our front six that have changed against 20% (possibly rising to 40%) of our backline. So, there are some useless stats for you. Of those, graham got a better move, Anderson and Hammill released, Clarke was seemingly quietly scrapped and Walker was (publically at least) not offered terms. Murray has been at least, ruthless and it's probably good that he has done. It at least offers him the chance to stamp authority on a group of players who see him more as the boss and less as 'Bert' the club captain. Also looks like there is more mobility in the centre of the park, and Cardle will offer a lot of intelligent running and a decent goal threat out wide left. I've left otu Smith, but could quite easily have put him in there for Elliot or Spence. On paper at least, there is a decent forward line there, and Smith and above all Elliot come from a decent pedigree. We all know that Spence can put them away. It could all got oshit obviously but that starting eleven looks good enough to push into the play offs (the good play offs)

Even if someone had signed yesterday, they wouldnt have been able to do much aobut registration: Surely the SFA offices aren't open on a Sunday?

See, Im not so sure of that. Granted they have some good players but their squad a sit stands is very unbalanced (obviously there is some while to go to add to that) meanwhile several of those players could be described as the very epitome of journeyman, while their sole senior striekr at the moment is a man on first name terms with every physio in the country. There is also the massive unkown that is bomber Brown. Whiel I think Dundee will start as favourites, and they obviously do have some decent players, I don't think they'll be as good as Thistle were last year, and I do think that you guys would've finished closer but for a slow start. All in all, Falkirk should be up there challenging (assuming you keep or adequately replace taylor) with what you have.

Well, last I heard Barrowman was off to a trial for a dutch team, Cardle was training with us but has gone for a trial down south and Pat Clarke is probably not going to get offered a new contract at Rovers, and Macintyre didn't rate him anyway.

For all we know Murray already has some trialists to see if he can get another left sided option.

Definitely a good footballer, technically adept and with a decent shot but like Stuart Anderson last season maybe lacked that bit of mobility to get around the pitch fast enough in the first division - particularly in his best position of central midfield.

I doubt Murray was holding out a ,lot of hope for them, the way he's gone about building the squad and using his budget. besides, if they were anything like Agathe's other proteges, they are probably mince.

Think it's a pretty decent signing myself, he has somethigng to prove and he has done it at this level before. Of the names that have been bandied about, his was the only realistic one on the list.

If it makes you feel any better, it's only decent on paper.

To be fair to Smith, he had a decentish goal scoring record At Stirling, in 10/11 - which was the last time he had any substantial game time at first division level.