SANTAN

https://www.canzukinternational.com/ Yes or No? Get on it whilst you can guys, it's the next Brexit. Extremely popular going by the polling in each country. Biden winning might just accelerate it. Thoughts?

"Impossible hurdles" = any semblance of a plan.

Poor reading comprehension.

I did. I saw people mention at the time that UK voters might go for Brexit, can you remember UKIP...? Did you believe at the time that Brown wasn't being sleekit with his words like politicians do, did he convince you or are you just gonna speak on behalf of other people?

Well forget guaranteed we could start with likelyhoods which aren't up to much going by the arguments I've seen on both sides.

You must have missed the part where I said I voted Remain...

No I'm not, I've given you a page full of my concerns and you've basically said "aye that'll come after".. I'm not saying I couldn't be convinced I'm saying that you're not exactly convincing me here. I'd be satisfied if that was definitely the case.

Jesus Christ, I also think man could eventually fly to Jupiter and I don't think that's happening any time soon. Here's a clue, go back to the page where I posted my concerns, if those were alleviated then I'd be convinced, you just said all of those will come after so if that's the case then I'm not going to jump off the cliff and change the status quo. I believe all of those concerns could certainly be addressed before the vote. (If there even is one)

Also I dont think everyone is a loony nat at all, the majority are, click the names next to my dots and you'll see the main culprits, there are a few posters on here that I agree with and aren't complete roasters.

I've literally told you what x y and z are for SI and how they aren't comparable with concerns I had over Brexit. Unless you can tell me what concerns i have ignored over Brexit then I'll gladly cover it.... I had the choice to vote and i chose to vote Remain as I wasnt convinced on certain issues..... So everything you've said above is wrong, congratulations.

Sorry if your comprehension standards are poor. I have an opinion on the likelihood of SI, I have an opinion on what I want, is all of this cemented, no. All of this could change with good reasoning, nothing I've seen so far has convinced me but there are plenty of assurances and outcomes which could.. What was wrong with what was said then, that is completely true. Do you think Scotland would have automatically rejoined the EU on day 1?

Voting Yes would have led to Scotland leaving the EU and having to rejoin. Voting No meant the UK remained until it later chose to leave.

Yeah I'm not voting on the detail I'm voting with being content with the status quo or having to do all the things I said from scratch, so the ideological view about SI is not enough to convince me that it is worth abandoning the status quo, the practical work that would have to be done and debated over for decades doesn't seem to warrant the rest to me. What can I say, I'm just clearly not as dissatisfied as everyone else on here seems to be. I think it could manage all the points I've made but the risk reward is no where near worth it imo, I don't think it would be likely and I'm sure I'd be left unsatisfied over most of those points.

I'll ask politely then. Can you please explain why you were "for " Brexit without any plan of any sort? Well all of the concerns I have with Scottish Independence weren't an issue with Brexit. If you can go back and tell me what ones relate I'll gladly answer but as it stood I didnt have any questions over currency or defence or media etc, all of those already existed without the EU, all if this would need to be built up in SI. The bus that you mentioned was nonsense to begin with and I'm not anti immigration, I wanted to leave the EU from 2010 onwards, so long before the referendum was in the public eye. That's one of the issues that grates me the most with SI is that people claim Brexit is such a big factor like this wasnt a potential outcome prior to 2014... people knew Brexit was an option when they chose to vote as a UK collective, the whole debate over whether staying in the UK would keep Scotland in Europe was literally over the point Scotland would have to rejoin the EU, which was true, not whether voting No in 2014 would have secured UK in Europe for all eternity.

Agree with the first part, it was obviously the least important of all my points, was just saying culturally I prefer music and tv from the other parts of the UK. Yeah with a lot of ifs and buts, it could. But lots of things could happen, the risk reward currently isn't something I support. Of course if the majority of people did support it I'm not going to be trying to rerun any referendums, unlike some.

You can simplify it down all you want, doesn't stop the fact that people have questions like I've posed and would hope to have certain assurances and answers to fill us with confidence. You keep assuming that I've a cemented opinion and haven't really tackled any of the points that I've said could convince me so what does it matter.. they're not barriers they're sincere points that I would need clarity over before voting for such things. I appreciate your reasoning for why you want Independence though.

Certainly not, I'm only asking why you need every detail laid out before Scottish independence but were happy enough to vote for Brexit that had literally no plan apart from "Take back control" and other nonsense soundbites. You asked with a lot of nasty assumptions. I didnt vote for Brexit either way..

And there's why I mentioned it.. Already we have two different takes.

What a ridiculous post. You guys are so stuck in your little boxes. Cool assumption though, I'll presume you think all Independence supporters hate the English?

If all of those questions would be answered after then what would I actually be voting for exactly..? I dont expect the average voter to have answers but I was asked my reasoning and I've stated I am content with the status quo so my questions are what would concern me to the point i would need to be convinced on them to vote for SI. As in I'm showing how the onus is certainly on the Indy supporters to sell a vision. The issue with the national debt isn't the fact that the UK has debt, if people think that then I'm not in that camp. It's laughable that people have questions over Independence.. ahahahaha - jesus christ - ahahahahaha- oh wow. I'm content, why do you want Scottish Independence?

A lot of unsures and probablys. I cant say you've constructively answered any of my concerns. I wanted Brexit so I cant see why Scotland attempting to join the EU would be worthwhile.. The currency, debt and border are huge issues that need clarity. The military point isn't about having an army it's about what the foreign policy would be, would it be fully independent from what we have now or would it just realign with what we're at now, very big issue when SNP mps tend to be very anti nuclear and anti foreign intervention (or at least a lot of the supporters are). Considering you have zero practical answers to any of my points I'd say it's safe to say it is some sort of identity crisis for a lot of you guys. What do you watch on Scottish Media? I dont watch Eastenders....

Great points well made Tutankhamen and monthefife - you've convinced me.

Well I don't want it to begin with, I'm content and I'm yet to be convinced that Independence is better than what we have now, so making some positive cases might be a good start.. A few questions I'd be intrigued about; - Would an IS attempt to rejoin the EU? - What currency would an IS use? -What would happen re the national debt? - Would we have a hard border with England? - What would our defence situation be, would it involve cozying up to Russia (I doubt this) or would we effectively just lease out and pay the UK/US for services? - Identity - What is the identity of an Independent Scotland, what would people like to change from a social perspective? I certainly identify as British and in an IS what actual social differences would there be? Would there actually be enough to bother changing all of the above contentious issues for the sake of some people feeling more Scottish (whatever that means) - Lastly, the Scottish media, what would we be left with. Shite TV, Shite music. All Scottish media has is Limmy. If the BBC would make me pay to subscribe in this situation I'd be oh so resentful.

Very sensible post. The onus is certainly on the Leave side to go into detail which I've been stressing but people just wanna talk about polls.

I'm a centrist that supports the Union, I'm very open minded, I dont agree with Independence but you can't deny Sturgeon is a good politician, now what makes a good politician... the art of being likeable and charismatic whilst also being sleekit and sly whilst also managing to further your personal political agendas. She's great at playing the game.