2426255
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Posts posted by 2426255
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1 hour ago, Bing.McCrosby said:
I think your right, id be surprised if Doak isn't in the squad now.
But I suppose it depends on how he shows up in training. If he's roasting our defenders then Clarkes got to be thinking he's the guy who could come on and change a game for us.
I think this is a fair way to look at it. The final 26 will simply depend upon what happens over the next 10 days. Who shows up well, who doesn't. If everything is equal then I agree Doak makes the 26. I don't think the reason for his inclusion is related to fitness issues around other squad members.
To add to that I think Forrest would be a possibility for being cut, last in first out basically and I'm guessing he is cover for Armstrong if he doesn't prove his fitness. Possibly a centre-back or maybe one of the goalkeepers depending on the squad overall. That's how I am settled on it at the moment.
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I see the under-21 squad are playing their final friendly in Austria (near Salzburg) on 7th-Jun. With them being the 'standby squad' I wonder if keeping them close to the tournament is deliberate or just coincidence.
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18 minutes ago, SlayerX said:
I think it'll be Doak who misses out.
The only reason being that he's been injured for 5/6 months and hasn't played in 7.
Hope I'm wrong. I hope he goes to Germany, whether he plays or not.
I'm not sure about that one actually. I think Ben Doak in one of 26 personally, but as I said above it's all a bit vague so it's anyone's guess at the moment.
QuoteI’ve never had the chance to work closely with Ben, so it just seemed like the right opportunity to put him in. The squad going from 23 to 26 just made it something that I thought I should do so we’ll have a look at Ben and see how he does.
Steve Clarke
He is less likely to play against Gibraltar, but maybe Finland.
QuoteBen hopefully will be a big player for us in the future and maybe this summer he can make a little contribution as well. He is fit and back training with his club. He did a little bit with Liverpool last week and we will speak to his club. We will keep in touch with them and, from the two games, the first one might come a little bit too soon. But maybe in the second game he can get some minutes on the pitch if I choose to do that.
Steve Clarke
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20 minutes ago, JS_FFC said:
I can’t shake the idea that John Souttar is going to be the guy dropped. Doak and Armstrong probably get taken to Germany if they have any chance of being fit because they give us different options. Souttar is injured AND lower down the pecking order so I think he will be the cut.
RCB you’ve got Hendry and Porteous who both seem ahead of Souttar.
CCB Grant Hanley, Hendry and possibly you could play Cooper or McKenna there
LCB is Tierney’s role with McKenna and Cooper also able to play it.
In a back four Hendry/Porteous/Hanley can all play RCB and McKenna/Porteous/Cooper can play LCB.
Ultimately I see little downside to Souttar missing out on the squad which is a shame as I rate him as a player.
I think Kelly will also miss out unless one of the other injured guys is going to miss the tournament outright. Only then would you see 4 keepers already.
So Souttar and Kelly are the likely 2 cuts imo.
For me it's just wait and see. Someone might pick up an injury in training or in a friendly, that would change things. The injury status for the players is quite vague at the moment, no information on severity and with a few that aren't technically injured. The manager said he wants breathing room which is why he took 28 players, so you can say Kelly and Souttar today and then in a week it might change.
There is also the question of the four goalkeepers which Clarke hasn't ruled out, so has to be considered as well.
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7 minutes ago, JS_FFC said:
@2426255 - You are good at tracking the minutes and stuff. Am I right in saying these are the potential injury doubts out of the 28? Have I missed anyone?
John Souttar - Missed the last few Rangers games
Stuart Armstrong - Not played in a month but Russell Martin expects him to make the Euros
Ben Doak - Not played in months but in full training
Ryan Jack - Barely played all season but has been available for a few weeks
Scott McTominay - Limped out of the FA cup final
Hanley, Cooper and Tierney are fit I believe.
I think were question marks around Souttar, Armstrong, Doak, Jack, Adams and Hanley before the games this weekend. Adams played a bit today and McTominay is maybe a doubt now after the game on Saturday. So yeah I'm on the same page as you.
Hanley, Jack and Doak have to prove their fitness and aren't probably injured. McTominay, Souttar and Armstrong probably have injuries. Adams I'm not too sure. That's my interpretation given the limited information available.
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I'd rather games were played on a plastic pitch every week if the alternative is Dens park. Teams cutting corners and redeploying money needed for the pitch into the team in order to achieve their wee targets such as top-6 or staying in the league will become more frequent. Dundee FC are a good example of that.
If a team isn't able to do that then they shouldn't be allowed in the top league or if enough of the teams can't do that then artificial pitches should be allowed IMO.
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21 minutes ago, microdave said:
When do the squad meet up?
I think you can figure that out from the information above. My guess would be Tuesday, maybe Monday evening. Steve Clarke said he has 10 days to decide on his final 26 players and if you work that back from the 7th of June (Squad Deadline) then it takes you to Tue-28th, which as it happens is the day they normally tend to meet up.
Players who've had or still have games this weekend will have longer probably.
SpoilerQuoteThere is still a bit tumbling around in my mind that I need to see over the next 10 days, half a dozen training sessions and two friendlies. Then I can firm up what I do when I go to Germany.
Steve Clarke
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19 minutes ago, craigkillie said:
I've seen a couple of people picking up on the age of the Euros squad, but I do think we have to acknowledge that it's been skewed a bit higher because of the injuries to three core squad members who are all 24 or under. When you look at the current players who are 26 or younger (ie will be 30 or younger when we name the next Euros squad) and have been in squads we still have the following, which I think leaves us still fairly well set with a core for the future.
Spot on, that's not lost on me - particularly with Hickey and Patterson, but also like you say Ferguson. It's an older squad, the oldest it's ever been under Clarke. The mean age of the provisional squad is 28.5 - but there is a group of younger players in the u-21's probably ready to make the jump. Conway, Johnston, Doig, Barron and maybe a few others.
In my view it's not something to panic about, but it's clear there will be some renewal after this tournament. Cooper, Jack and Gordon probably, maybe a few others McLean, Armstrong or Hanley.
Spoiler
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18 minutes ago, craigkillie said:
A fully fit Ryan Jack of 2 years ago could play RWB in this team no bother, but that's not what we've got.
Agreed. Perhaps he could still fill in as a right back though if that was ever required. That seems like a remote possibility, but you never know.
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Just a bit on the future and age profile of the National team. Something previously discussed here:
On 14/03/2024 at 11:19, 2426255 said:I've been tracking the average age of the Scotland squad for the last year. The March squad is the oldest it's ever been during Steve Clarke tenure at 28.2, the mean squad age is 26.7. That's partly because Hanley and Gordon have returned to the squad, but one of the effects of selecting a consistent squad is they all age together.
It's not something to be concerned about, just worth keeping an eye on. Maybe we'll see some regeneration during the Nations League.
and here in more detail here:
https://forum.pieandbovril.com/topic/205640-youth-teams-discussion/?do=findComment&comment=16030745
QuoteThen again, I look at this group of players – and I don’t want to make a big point to it – but there are some who are starting to age a little bit. At some stage there has to be a refresh, which is a bit of a nod to Ben Doak for this one. We need to start thinking that maybe we have to change in the future. It seems that this group of players, the vast majority of them, deserve to be going to a major tournament.
Steve Clarke
QuoteIf you look through the squad, there are a number of players who are 32 or 33 so will be 34 or 35 come the next tournament. Craig Gordon will be 43! So, there will be more evolution in the future, no matter who the head coach is. Ben Doak can be one going forward, so let’s have a look.
Steve Clarke
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A few quotes from the papers about the selection process. Nothing groundbreaking in there to be fair, but some interesting bits and pieces.
QuoteThere is cover in the squad. I have tried to cover all positions, all possibilities. There is still a bit tumbling around in my mind that I need to see over the next 10 days, half a dozen training sessions and two friendlies. Then I can firm up what I do when I go to Germany. There are things you can think about. The idea when you pick a squad and to pick a squad of 26 is to give yourself as many options to cover as many bases as you can, and that is what I have tried to do.
Steve Clarke
QuoteIt was actually much more difficult if I’m being honest. We lost four players — Ferguson, Patterson, Hickey, Brown — who probably would have been in the squad. We now need to find four replacements and I’ve a number of players who are either returning to play or not playing very often at their clubs. You have to look at them and think, ‘OK, how do we get them in? How do we assess their fitness? How do we know their fitness?’. So there are still one or two doubts, even as we go into the last ten days before we get to the final selection of 26. That was the reason for the slightly bigger squad. It was just to give me a little bit of time to assess one or two different people and hopefully come up with the right choice at the end.
Steve Clarke
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/12730189/steve-clarke-scotland-euros-squad-standby-list/
QuoteThere are four coming back from injury or not playing regularly at their clubs. There are one or two we need to keep an eye on. Ross McCrorie coming into the squad as a new uncapped player is something else to look at. James Forrest is coming in as well, so there are one or two things still swimming around my head. It’s not quite the tumble dryer it was last week, it’s a little bit calmer than that. There are still one or two factors to consider.
Steve Clarke
QuoteThese things, people will never know. I’ve had private conversations with a lot of people. That’s all I’ll say on that. I don’t think it’s fair that I sit here and discuss players who can play for other countries. I know what I’m doing. Was I panicking when there was a couple of weekends when players were going down injured? Aye. Listen, it’s part of the game. In March, I said that I knew we’d probably lose players to injury. Historically, it’s usually two in every camp. But this time it’s four who would have been picked - or close to being picked - in Jacob Brown, Nathan Patterson, Aaron Hickey and Lewis Ferguson. It was disappointing because I had to make four sad phone calls. But I had to re-emphasise to all of them that they’re young enough to make the next tournament.
Steve Clarke
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A bit on the wing back situation from the papers.
QuoteListen, when you lose your two first-choice right backs, right wing-backs, there are going to be a lot of people who look and think, ‘What’s next’? What’s next is Tony Ralston, who doesn’t play every week at his club. It was nice to see him get minutes on the pitch against St Mirren last week and put in a fantastic ball for the winning goal. He has been in the squads before, he has got a number of caps, he is reliable and now he has got a fantastic chance to nail down that position. Ross comes in on the back of a really difficult start to his Bristol City career. He had a really bad injury situation. It took him a long time to get over it. But in the second half of the season he has got into a good Bristol City team that finished reasonably well in the Championship and has got a lot of games under his belt. He has been in a couple of squads before so I have got a little feel for Ross and what his qualities and attributes are. Hopefully he can grab his chances as well.
Steve Clarke
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/12730189/steve-clarke-scotland-euros-squad-standby-list/
QuoteThere are things you can think about. James Forrest has obviously played there (right wing back) before, but not very often. Ryan Jack is another one who has been mentioned. He can play on the right hand side of the pitch no problem, but more as a right-back than a right-wing back. The idea when you pick a squad and to pick a squad of 26 is to give yourself as many options to cover as many bases as you can, and that is what I have tried to do.
Steve Clarke
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A bit on Ryan Jack from the papers.
QuoteRyan is not in because he’s due a chance. He is in because of what he has done for me before as a player. I understand the qualities Ryan brings to the squad and to the team when I put him on the pitch. What Ryan has to do is come into the camp and train well. Hopefully I can give him some minutes on the pitch. He has to show everyone he is fit. But I know he has been fit at his club for a couple of weeks now. They have chosen not to play him, that is their choice. But Ryan is fit and raring to go. Ryan Jack is another one who has been mentioned. He can play on the right hand side of the pitch no problem, but more as a right-back than a right-wing back.
Steve Clarke
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33 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:
He is, yes. But that doesnt change the point that he's right about Kelly (or Gordon).
I suppose if @JS_FFC is right it must make Deschamps wrong to take only 25 players or Nagelsmann wrong to take 4 keepers then?
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Superb effort once again from the Bhoys. Doing the job in placed in front of them. Crushing sevco into a finely ground powder.
A long and luxurious summer awaits with Rangers in an identity crisis, with nothing to shout about and doubts about every aspect of their organisation.
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3 hours ago, JS_FFC said:
On the assumption that 3 at the back is plan A, and listing players in their most likely positions, the current listing of the squad is along the lines of:
Goalkeepers - Angus Gunn, Craig Gordon, Zander Clark, Liam Kelly [4; 1 to start]
Right Wing Backs - Anthony Ralston, Ross McCrorie [2; 1 to start]
Centre Backs - Kieran Tierney, Jack Hendry, Ryan Porteous, Scott McKenna, Grant Hanley, Liam Cooper, John Souttar [7; 3 to start]
Left Wing Backs - Andy Robertson, Greg Taylor [2; 1 to start]
Holding Midfielders - Callum McGregor, Billy Gilmour, Kenny McLean, Ryan Jack [4; 1 or 2 to start]
Attacking Midfielders - John McGinn, Scott McTominay, Ryan Christie, Stuart Armstrong, James Forrest, Ben Doak [6; 2 or 3 to start]
Strikers - Che Adams, Lyndon Dykes, Lawrence Shankland [3; 1 to start]
This is why 4 goalkeepers is mental to me. There's space to drop one of the CBs (Probably Souttar given he didn't even make the bench in the cup final), but other than that we are pretty thin on depth. Every single outfield player is surely several times more likely to be needed in the tournament than Kelly - and we'd be allowed to call Kelly up during the tournament if need be.
You're missing a number of double ups.
Tierney (LWB). McGinn (Holding Mid). McTominay (Holding Mid, Centre Back). Christie (Striker). McCrorie (Centre Back, Holding Mid). McLean (Attacking Mid) etc
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32 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:
Nobody has suggested naming 4 in the provisional squad is a problem as far as I know?
Naming 4 in the final 26 is batshit mental though for me. If you need a training goalie take one, dont name them in the squad. The squad rules are designed to avoid having to do so.
Only Germany so far have actually said they are officially naming 4 as far as I know.
If Clarke ends up doing so I'll be critical of it.
That's fair enough. I don't have an explanation why he can't or won't take a training goalkeeper, unofficially. For me it boils down to the idea that he doesn't need 26 guys for the tournament or probably want that. Whoever he takes as the 26th man will be performing a support role. So I don't think it's a big deal if he names four goalkeepers in the 26.
If he's trying to keep Kelly onside for future camps or something along those lines, fine. If he's making the 3rd choice keepers life easier that's fine too. I just don't get why it bothers so many people either way.
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If you think it's bad to name four. Switzerland named five in their 38-man provisional squad.
Across Europe: Germany, Scotland, Switzerland, Italy, Slovenia, Serbia, England, Netherlands, Austria, Romania and Turkey (11) have named four goalies in their provisional squad. Germany have confirmed they will name 4 goalkeepers in their 26 man squad. Georgia, Ukraine and France have submitted their final squads already and each have 3 goalies although France have not taken 26 players.
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17 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:
Whilst the last sentence is true, I cant help but feel the 'taking 4 keepers' benefit is exaggerated and more relates to avoiding the Kelly v Gordon decision if he feels there's enough outfield cover anyway.
That's the counter argument, I don't agree with that interpretation - but I accept it's a possibility that he's hedging his bets regarding the keepers. Avoiding a decision or a using Nagelsmanns idea as cover for doing that until he has to.
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Didn't need to read this to know it will be a whole heap of shite. Not sure who's worse Phil McNulty or Tom English.
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2 hours ago, Barry Ferguson's Hat said:
I've woken up with battle fever.
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John Souttar will not play in todays Scottish Cup final due to injury.
QuoteThere’s a clarity on some things, but on some things not. John (Souttar), for sure, will not be available.
Phillip Clement
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37 minutes ago, Savage Henry said:
Steve Clarke really is the master of saying absolutely nothing at all. Which is fine, but you can never read anything into anything he says.
He'll take four goalkeepers if he can cover all the positions in the squad. That's what he is saying, he is open to that idea. The final squad submission is still 2-weeks away, so who knows how things will change between then and now. It is indirectly telling us that he doesn't need 26 players if everyone is fit.
Clarke took four goalkeepers previously for the Jun-22 camp (Clark, Kelly, Gordon and Marshall) perhaps for different reasons if he knew in advance Marshall might retire and obviously also did it for the Mar-24 camp. Fans in general not being able to accept the idea isn't particularly surprising as they're not on the same wavelength as managers clearly, so it reinforces that idea too.
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Follow Follow Rangers. Season 2023/24
in Scottish Premiership General Chatter
Posted
Spot on with that assessment. Unfortunately for Rangers it just doesn't work like that. If Clement doesn't hit the ground running at the start of the season the fans will be demanding that he be sacked and the board, well are they strong enough to stick with him under pressure from the fans?
For outsiders it's silly really. If Rangers fans just accepted that they're simply not the best and that they're Scotlands second force they would have a chance of building something. But the fans lead the board to constantly rip things up and start again. The fans and the 'winners' culture are the problem. Of course their not winners, any sane expectations would recognise they are performing to par. The fans are the root of the current problem, the current board follow while the previous board started it.
What a mess. what delightful viewing. You reap what you sow. no sympathy.