Jedi2

So the actual far-right making significant gains in all of France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Austria, Poland, Belgium, the Netherlands and Hungary, and this is the same EU which so many folk are desperate to rejoin? These far-right groups aren't just your average 'Tory' types, they are genuine successors to Fascists of the past Of course we need a better overall relationship with Europe, but these election results make an EFTA route much more palatable, rather than trying to jump back in with the current direction of political travel of the EU's main players.

Positively my last word on these particular issues (seriously, and yes, I know..)before @lichtgilphead spouts his utter dung again. Honestly, if the SNP came round and burned his house down, he would be on saying 'at least they used the right matches' Let's see what the election result actually is. Attainment Gap..has it widened?..Yes..here are a heck of a lot of folk telling lies though: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-62477072.amp https://www.understanding-inequalities.ac.uk/news-and-blog/understanding-the-attainment-gap https://edexec.co.uk/scottish-pupils-lag-in-literacy-and-numeracy/ https://www.povertyalliance.org/stark-gaps-in-educational-attainment-risk-being-compounded-by-covid-warns-new-poverty-alliance-report/ https://inews.co.uk/news/scotland/progress-on-reducing-attainment-gap-for-scottish-pupils-falls-short-924702 https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,yawning-attainment-gap-between-richest-and-poorest-pupils-remains https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/b/attainment-gap-between-rich-and-poor-students-in-scotland-grows-exam-results-reveals Convener of the Education, Children and Young People Committee, (of the Scottish Parliament) said: 'However, in our report, we have noted Audit Scotland’s conclusion that there has been limited progress on closing the poverty-related attainment gap and that inequalities have been worsened by Covid-19.' https://www.parliament.scot/about/news/news-listing/closing-the-gap-are-attainment-measures-working China/Turkey There are already quotes from both Yousaf and Robertson above celebrating doing business with both regimes in the past few months..both have been cited as we know for genocide and the point remains that's its pot and Kettle for the SNP to criticise Labour over Israel while doing this. Police Scotland I'm not clear if it's considered a 'lie' (I assume it is) given its 'disinformation' that the former Chief Exec has been charged, and that investigations remain ongoing against other figures. I don't think we need an Internet trawl to find that. It's a heck of a Conspiracy to accuse the National Police force of 'lying' though. Private Provision of Healthcare https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13509197/SNPs-850MILLION-bill-private-NHS-work.html 'SNP health minister Neil Gray stated as part of an interview on ITV’s Representing Border that he would not rule out and “would be happy to consider” more private provision in a fully devolved Scottish NHS' https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/snp-accuse-hypocrisy-over-anti-privatisation-pledge Of course, you can continue to dismiss any source which doesn't cheerlead the SNP as lies, but again, that's an awful lot of folk who are simply making things up.

It's way beyond the stage where you have to ask yourself...who's 'right'..Senior SNP politicians with directly attributable quotes about private healthcare, supporting unsavoury regimes in China and Turkey, Education Scotland, Police Scotland, much of the mainstream media, the SNP's own manifesto (all apparently hotbed of liars)..or....some guy on the Internet who is never wrong about anything. What we do know of course, in answer to the title of this thread is that Scotland will start it's journey to Independence in just over 3 weeks...it is likely that the SNP will gain seats to take them to over 50, with the Scottish voting public solidly behind an unprecedented 17 years of essentially perfect governance, and inspired by serial winner, John Swinney, who will start the coming negotiations himself, before July is even out.

Lists of 'lies' from sources which include the Scottish govt itself, direct quotes from Humza Yousaf, Angus Robertson, Neil Gray, et al. Figures from Education Scotland, the SNP's own manifesto, (any) Newspaper which isn't 100% behind the SNP, Econonists, the SNP's own Growth Commission document, BBC Scotland, The EU, Police Scotland, any Polling company. Other than that.. It's some achievement for any party to have an unblemished record for 17 whole years that's for sure

On some of the other points, yes it's not 'illegal' to trade with either China or Turkey, and yes, the (current) UK govt does so. Its more the point that the SNP made a lot of capital out of Starmer's stumbling over Palestine, yet, despite the SNP being 'better' and (of course) different from WM, they are happy to do deals with countries involved in genocide. In the case of Yousaf, as he said himself of budding up to Erdogan, (maybe he was lying): 'Why on earth would Scotland not look to seek to engage with a Nato ally and of course with somebody we would seek to do business and trade with?" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-68017535 Or perhaps Angus Robertson's November jolly to China or earlier last year: On 25th May 2023, Consul General Zhang Biao paid a courtesy call on Mr. Angus Robertson MSP, Cabinet Secretary for Constitution, External Affairs and Culture of the Scottish Government, exchanging views on China-Scotland relations and practical cooperation Robertson welcomed Zhang to Scotland, and highlighted the importance of strengthening relationships with China. He also reaffirm of Scotland’s commitment to furthering the mutually-beneficial cooperation in new energy, low-carbon, and other fields. http://edinburgh.china-consulate.gov.cn/eng/xwdt/202306/t20230601_11088208.htm On the Attainment gap: 'Scotland's Attainment Gap Widens Again' (2023) figures are there: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-66446059 National Care Service and National Energy Company: Yes, they can have until 2025 to get them going, but given the silence on both, that's a heck of a lot of work to do in a year.

Of course failing to mention that between 1999-2007, whilst 'in Government' that it was a Lab-Lib Coalition, but still. Also reducing child poverty is the SNP's current 'central mission'. Trumpeting 'only' a quarter of children living in poverty under (any) administration is not a case for credit, whether its a few % point lower than England or not.

That's it @DeeTillEhDeh has successfully outed me as Jim Diamond

March 2024: Just a 30,000 increase The Scottish poverty report uses a three-year average, estimating the rate of child poverty to be 24% but single-year statistics showed an increase. Additional tables in the report put the figure for the last year at 26% of children living in relative poverty in Scotland, up approximately 30,000 from the previous year. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8763j5p5pmo.amp

Oft-mentioned PhD Once mentioned by me, about 20 times by you.

Private Sector in Health Care. Not my words, but Neil Grays I’m relatively pragmatic. I can certainly see a role for the innovation that is currently going on that is driven through the private sector in consort with the academic sector. “I can certainly see a role for the greater usage of some of that innovation and to really make sure we are working together to find how we can accelerate some of that so we can see faster treatment, so we can see faster diagnostics and diagnosis, which in turn will free up clinical time.' https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/new-scots-health-minister-wont-32255753#amp-readmore-target I note that the National Care Service and National Energy Company (both 'flagship' policies) aren't on your list (let me guess..Westminster blocked both of them) Child Poverty Rates (which are 26%, not 24, and rising, described by Oxfam as a 'collective stain on our national conscience' The fact that the rates are small % lower than England or Wales but rising under an SNP govt doesn't exactly do them credit. https://oxfamapps.org/scotland/2024/03/21/scottish-poverty-rate-remains-a-shameful-stain-on-our-collective-conscience/ A9..is now delayed until 2035. 1 in 6 people in Scotland on an NHS Waiting list. Perhaps 'lower' than England but again hardly a record to be proud of. Just over 2 in 5 young people living in the most deprived areas achieve one or more Higher when leaving school (43.5%) compared to almost 4 in 5 young people living in the least deprived areas (79.3%)...that's not a gap closing. Ah the Ferries, being built by Turkey and Yousaf's pal, Erdogan, the man cited for genocide against the Kurds, who the Scot govt are so keen to do business with,(as well as China of course with the close friendship and co-operation deals of Angus Robertson last November)...just the 1 million Uyghur Muslims detained there. Reducing class sizes to 25 when your promise was 18 or under isn't 'meeting' said promise. To add to the list we can now have dropping 'SNP for Independence' on thr Ballot papers for the GE. Whatever has happened to 'Page 1, Line 1'? Two debates in and not a mention of Independence by either Swinney or Flynn.

Broken Pledges and Promises you say... Scrap the Council Tax and replace it with a Local Income Tax (2007) Reduce class sizes in Primaries to 18 or less A National Care Service Free Laptops and Bikes A National Energy Company Close the Attainement Gap (it's gone up) Hold a Referendum in Oct 2023 Freeze Income Tax Ferries Dual the A9 Tackle Child Poverty (its gone up) Reduce NHS Waiting Lists (up) Build 110,000 affordable homes (target missed) Using the Private Sector for Healthcare Services Making all messages and information available to a Covid Enquiry A Four Day Working Week.

Whatever did happen to Murray Foote, Chief Editor of the Record at the time of the Vow and a driving force behind its publication...oh wait.

In fairness, the Polls are wild at the moment.. SNP are ranging from 35, to 26/27, then 17, and in some, 7 or 8. Will clearly be a lot of very tight contests which could go either way SNP-Lab by just a few % points but will make a big impact in overall seats for both. No idea tbh which one of the two ways it will fall just now

£20 goes to a Charity of your choice if the SNP win 29 plus seats.

Best article I have seen so far on the current situation https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/viewpoint/24361992.wake-yes-voters-snp-conning-us-indy/

Wouldn't trust you to walk me across the street let alone pay a bet. However, if the SNP win a majority of seats I will gladly make a donation to a Charity of your choice.

'Laughable' Prediction of 8 seats..(which the current polls point to). UDI....A unilateral declaration of independence or "unilateral secession" is a formal process leading to the establishment of a new state by a subnational entity which declares itself independent and sovereign. A 'formal' process. Need we return to the Conference Motion again? It's all semantics...a majority of seats lead to the SNP 'considering' Scotland to have voted for Independence at that point, and what follows is said formal process of negotiation to determine how it will be worked out. That therfore is what is on the Voting paper in 5 weeks.

So, if the SNP win a majority of seats in 5 weeks time (as many still expect them to do)...what will they call for? I accept @lichtgilphead point about his disagreement over a 'majority of seats' being insufficient, but should rather be a majority % ie over 50% of votes cast for pro-Independence parties. However, the Conference motion is clear...its the seats route-so, what do you think they will do, post-GE?

Help ma boab...even SNP Conference is 'lying' now according to purveyor of all wisdom and top troll, @lichtgilphead For the avoidance of doubt the wording the motion again (I know, I know, it's 'lies' but hey, it is from www.snp.org. Conference believes that if the SNP subsequently wins a majority of the seats at the General Election in Scotland, the Scottish Government is empowered to begin immediate negotiations with the UK Government to give democratic effect to Scotland becoming an independent country and establish a Constitutional Convention constituted by the MPs elected to Westminster, MSPs and representatives of civic Scotland. 'Immediate negotiations'...(No, not my words, but the words of those SNP members who drafted the motion, and then had the motion passed at Confernece..and John Swinney's words 2 days ago that he would honour said motion. So...is it 'lies' that if the SNP win a majority of seats at the GE that they will begin 'immediate negotiations' to give effect to Scotland becoming an Independent country. Which part is lies...those who drafted the motion, those who voted for it, John Swinney restatement of it...or all 3?

Exactly..there is a world of a difference between the Tories ridiculous Rwanda 'scheme' and planning both a renegotiation with the EU and France in particular, next year over Channel crossings, and, with a Border Patrol, going after the criminals who are exploiting vulnerable people, while also taking a fair share of refugees. As is the case with approaches to Education, Energy, Workers Rights, Health, Housing, and public services in general, there are clear dividing lines between Labour and Tory. The Tories will probably try National Service next..oh wait.

Don't disagree that Labour could (and should) have taken the chance between around 2000-09 to build up a National Wealth Fund from oil proceeds. Obviously Thatcher as expected squandered that cash in the 80s on funding the S.East and N.East of England in particular. So could Labour have done better on that front? Absolutely. I am more than happy to acknowledge faults in Labour govts of the past and (hopefully) future btw

Glad to see my favourite Internet troll dismussing yet another source as 'lies', and apparently I am now a Tory to boot, presumably unless exclusively citing the crayoning and coloring in of The Na TiOALl or www.snp.org (these are the only 'truth tellers' out there)...or maybe that noted truth teller Pete Murrell... Anyway...to more important matters on oil and gas and the revenues during either a Blair or Thatcher govt: Oil and gas revenues peaked in the early 2000s, hitting an all-time high (in cash terms) in 2008/09. But adjusting for inflation, revenues were much higher in the early 1980s, amassing – in today's prices – nearly £35 billion in 1984/85. This time the source is www.economicsobservatory.com (Gosh, not the Express) Did Labour try to set up a National Wealth fund for Scotland in the mid-80's (to answer the question)...No. However, they were a bit hamstrung in doing so by a large Tory majority at Westminster which enabled said Tories to do whatever they wanted.

Don't disagree re oil..that was however around 40 years ago under Thatcher. Speaking of funding... Now we discover that Neil Gray and Shona Robinson have been trying to block additional funding of £2.9 billion from Westminster for local Councils in Scotland, as it doesn't fit their 'narrative'. Despite starving Councils of cash themselves for years and ushering in another Council Tax freeze to appease the Middle Class, the SNP now block this money 'because' its from Westminster. https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/disgraceful-snp-minister-called-uk-32879947?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar In fairness its been a cracking start to the campaign: Honest John defends Michael 'he did nothing wrong' Matheson. Murrell report is sent to the Fiscal and Sturgeon remains 'under investigation' Honest John confirms that the most seats defacto Ref is still in play And now it's found that they were trying to block additional funding from Westminster..and this is just the first few days.

Fair play mate It is a struggle.. I'm.only hanging onto the end to have watched every episode of Star Trek.

Does being the leader of a Party during a GE campaign qualify that person as 'involved' in the Election? Obviously not...and naturally gaffes only apply to Tory and Labour figures...Swinney is doing an outstanding job so far..carry on.