MurrayWell

I would just like to say, Butcher is fucking diabolical and should be emptied as soon as possible.

All this debate aside, it'll feel quite mad hearing an away support chant our new club motto tomorrow eh?

The whole point of the vote is to see the red line of Well Society members, it's not anyone saying a definitive yes or no to investment. I'm absolutely not against external investment, I'm actually pretty for it, provided it's in the club's best interests. But what I don't like is the idea that we have been told one thing (again) while other options are on the table (ie, selling the club completely). The whole campaign was around "join this community" not "do you want to buy the club?". Of course each offer should be considered on its own merit, and let's all be real if there is truly transformative investment on the table there is a high chance it'll get the votes once the details are shared. But I do think saying "we'd maybe sell the club" straight off the bat without any information isn't the way to go either, if folk would prefer that the club stay in the hands of supporters with outside investment complementing that (where I am btw). The whole point of fan ownership was to avoid us falling into the wrong hands. Concern would be if someone, without the best intentions, knows fans could be up for giving up ownership to the highest bidder we could find ourselves in a tricky situation. Again, this obviously isn't a final decision but will set the negotiation parameters by the sounds of it, I think saying we want to remain fan owned is the better place to start.

Each to their own and all that, but I think our position for any negotiation should be "the fans stay owners". Up to the perspective investors if they want to get on board with that. Don't really like the whole "would you maybe sell the club though?" Wasn't ever what was pitched and would probably weaken the club's position if investors thought the fans would go for a full sale.

FWIW I voted for the first option where the Well Society keeps control. Not sure why anyone would jump two-footed into the unknown at this point. While I don't think the Well Society is perfect, I do think they've recognised where needs to be improved. The whole "investment video and campaign" was around us being fan-owned, not selling the club. If someone wants to join in with that and invest then ideal. I've also got absolutely no faith in Jim McMahon and Co., piss up and brewery spring to mind.

Lamie away? Finally some good news!

I think this is it in a nutshell regarding the 50+1 model here. I said earlier in this thread it's obviously the dream scenario but realistically is it ever going to be an option for an SPFL club? I reckon the reason it works in Germany (aside from the obvious crowds, TV deal and all round class product) is more down to the fact that all clubs are run that way so investors can't really just pick another option and take full control there. If you want to invest in football there those are the rules. I've been a member of the Well Society for a number of years and I really back the concept and idea behind it. The figures show it is working for us, but I do feel there has been a bit of stagnation, I found the recent election turnout figures a bit concerning. Personally though, the recent noises from the Well Society have me feeling the most optimistic about it I have in a while. Sounds like a number of ideas are being considered around how the WS can grow the club without us losing our identity, will be interested to see how this develops. If we have a nice investor who just fancies chucking money in for a bit of fun then ideal, I'd be amazed if anyone does that though.

Absolutely, feel for Kettlewell big time here. Those in charge have hung him out to dry, probably not intentionally but I'm past trying to find logic and reason in some of the bizarre decisions, or non-decisions, McMahon and Co have made recently. Today's statement is absolutely shambolic, and I don't mean the extension itself, that's another debate. Those currently running the club have learned the hard way that their communications haven't been good, despite what their echo chamber may tell them, and, whether they like it or not, it's actually important to keep fans informed.

That statement on Kettlewell's contract is banter years worthy.

My view has always been that any investment shouldn't move us away from fan ownership or at least fans having a big say in what's going on, referenced the 50+1 model in the Bundesliga as being the dream scenario. Interestingly, my mate who was at the AGM last night said the recent Well Society elections had a turn out of something like 18 per cent from members. Like I said, my preference is that we remain fan owned, but that lack of engagement is surely a bit concerning? That being said, I've no idea what the usual turnout for this kind of thing is, maybe that's not a dramatic drop from the last couple.

Chat fae the AGM is that Kettlewell's contract is until May 2025, not May 2024... our outstanding communications strike again. EDIT: I'm not at AGM, just had a message from someone who is. Double checked and when he was confirmed as manager the website said it was until 2024. We seem to love not announcing certain contract extensions these days. Assume it was a clause if he kept us up but just tell folk when it happens

Serious questions, recruitment team, etc etc...

I don't think that's cynical at all really, while I think they do seem to have a connection with the community now, they obviously did see the value in getting involved for their own commercial ventures. Judging by the series, all of their brands are involved in commercial deals in some way and I'm sure I read something that the sponsorship they had with TikTok basically offset all of their initial investment, so I don't think it's all purely out of the goodness of their hearts. Aviation Gin has probably never been more popular in Wales. They do seem like decent enough blokes who wouldn't actively do the club and community wrong, again from what we've seen from a documentary they produce. But as you say, what happens if/when they decide it's no longer for them?

This for me is the key to it all, I think it's pure fantasy to expect someone to just go "here is millions of pounds just because I like your club's story" without them looking to have control, or at least some level of control. While the thought of having investment and a bit of a cash injection is appealing, it has to be right for the club long term, not just so we can be more competitive for a short period of time, until someone gets bored. I know it's probably investment we could only dream of, but the Wrexham situation is interesting. They were fan owned before Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney bought them and it required votes to go through, much like what you're saying here. From what I've seen, their intentions look to be good and, let's face it, they are clearly making money from sponsorships, documentary and their other businesses being involved in commercial deals with the club, they also have their own PR to think about that other investors might not care about. On top of that they do seem to genuinely have a connection with the club and town, but given what we've seen across football investment, I think it's fair to say this situation is the exception, not the rule. The dream is probably the 50+1 Bundesliga model where fans stay in control but investors have a say (simplifying here as there may be other layers to it with RB Leipzig etc), whether or not this is actually possible in the SPFL is another matter. As Jay says, there are loads of folk looking to invest in football at the moment who don't have good intentions, as exciting as any potential investment might be, it's worth remembering this.

Not so sure about that, think he knew the defender was catching him if he took it in further, tried to catch Clark out with a neat finish, never worked out but if it does everyone's praising his inventiveness.

While he can be a bit hit and miss, I thought yesterday would have been the ideal game for Slattery. Hearts were starting to look really frustrated at around 60 minutes just after our best attacking spell, if we had someone winning those wee fouls, disrupting and slowing the game Hearts wouldn't have taken as much of a hold on the game as they did. All ifs and buts, but just another case of us missing one of our better players due to the really bad run of injuries we've had this season.

Again I find myself going "we're not far off being a decent team", but there can't be teams in this league more naive or less street wise than us. Was always going to be a tough test today, but the number of goals we're conceding from set pieces is absolutely staggering, constantly giving ourselves so much to do. Gotta hope Celtic don't get a new manager bounce next week...

Haha! Good to know none of us have a clue how we should feel about it and we all keep changing our minds

Overall agree with where you're coming from on this, I find myself in the bizarre situation where I was a pretty vocal supporter of Kettlewell during our worst run under him, but the last two capitulations have really got me questioning his decision making and tactical ability, leaving me wondering why he hasn't used some of the, albeit, limited budget on allowing us to play in a different way. As I said previously, I don't think he's been as bad as some have made out, far from a disaster. I just struggle to see what his vision is. He bangs on about having an identity and way of playing, when we knock the ball about we're actually pretty good, but as soon as he's feeling pressure it's aimless long balls and hit and hopes. We heard similar from County fans that while he could be great at times, he was pretty stubborn and refused to adapt, Aberdeen midweek is a prime example of that and his comments after even pointed to him predicting that they'd equalise, he did nothing of note to prevent this. On the bringing in someone else point, totally agree that everything in that respect is a risk, but I think someone new having a clean slate for next season would get more patience from the fans... I honestly reckon we're at the stage where one or two bad results would have folk calling for Kettlewell to go. Like I said, if it turns out he sticks about I don't think folk should be enraged by that, given it would mean he's probably successfully kept us up while clearing out a lot of deadwood. Just wonder if changes begind the scenes will end up impacting things. Strange old season to be honest, wouldn't at all be surprised if we turn in an unexpected performance at Tynecastle tomorrow too just to keep everyone guessing.

Frustrations of the last few weeks aside, if Kettlewell keeps us up comfortably, which I suspect he will, and gets offered a deal then I absolutely get the point that folk can't really argue with it too much. Some of our displays, tactics and changes of late have been absolutely baffling and while I've never been in the "get him out now" camp, I remain to be convinced that he's the man to take us forward long term. If he sticks around fair enough, I'll back him, but I fear a two-year deal, followed by a bad start to next season, will land us back in exactly the same place we were in December, with an added "bumper" payoff included. Might be a case of putting two and two together, but with a new CEO coming in, and some quiet murmurings about investment being on the table (although we've heard this before), it may be that those who will be running the club going forward have different ideas.

Hmm not enough drawing there for us.

Surely it'll be Gunn, Clark and Gordon? Clark ahead of Gordon at Hearts. Absolutely nae chance Kelly gets near the squad on current form.

Tried to look at the positives as often as possible this season, so despite being a bit pissed off with the last couple of results I'd rather get back to that. Absolutely delighted for Bair, still cannot quite believe the pelters he has taken from some, he's arguably been our most consistent performer this season. That's him joint third top scorer in the league and only three goals behind Miovski, who has been talked up for a huge money move. The guy has been excellent for us, the management have taken a fair amount of stick in recent days, rightly so for some things, but credit where credit's due for seeing the player there, when it seemed like nobody else did. And massive credit to Bair for continuing to prove folk wrong.

Do see where you're coming from, I just think Kettlewell has already shown he doesn't typically admit when he's got it wrong and hasn't done enough to allow us to change our approach, ie signing no wingers and about 40 full-backs. Last two performances, and results, have been completely on him and his inability to change things.