Jaggy McJagface
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Posts posted by Jaggy McJagface
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4 minutes ago, No_Problemo said:
I think it’s also important to remember that we are definitely without Tierney, and most likely Robertson for the next two games.
Yeah this worries me a bit as well. We are still a decent side without them and will likely go to a back 4 with Hickey and Patterson both starting but losing our captain and a guy of Robertson’s experience in big games could lead to a lot more nerves.
I believe (and hope) that Spain will get the job done tonight and spare our fretting though.
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The US now sending a 2nd carrier strike group to the eastern Med.
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19 minutes ago, pthardie said:
They need to get on with announcing their decisions over the tannoy like the Women’s World Cup.
With the offside argument, if you flip, it would we have been happy if there was a goal given for Spain with the same margin of offside as Hendry?
If Spain score that goal then it stands.
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After seeing the horrible videos of the aftermath of the civilian convoy bombed as they try to flee south, you have to wonder how bad it’s going to actually have to get before the western political establishment finally tells Israel to put the brakes on.
Giving them a blank cheque to do as they please is heading us straight towards a catastrophe.
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12 minutes ago, HuttonDressedAsLahm said:
If Spain do the business on Sunday, I think everyone would enjoy the challenge of the last two games. When we've needed certain results we've managed it in the last few occasions.
Getting rid of the Georgia memories, and then a packed out Hampden to send us off against Norway is just the stuff dreams are made of.
Even better if Sunday is just a draw, then we'd be playing to win the group.
Sunday being a draw would be the perfect scenario but it would be far too arse clenchy if they are level going into the last few minutes for my liking.
The sporting advantages in being pot 2 over pot 3 are actually pretty minimal, but it would still be great to be able to say we were the best runners up with 21/24 points and would be a real statement of intent with us going into next summer with a great deal of confidence.
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With those results tonight, we are now guaranteed to be in pot 2 if we take 6 points from our remaining two games.
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50 minutes ago, Jaggy Snake said:
For people still claiming the decision wasn't changed and using the slightest ambiguity in McGinn's interview, Ryan Christie literally said the referee told the players two different stories.
The goal probably shouldn't have stood as Hendry was marginally off and arguably obstructed/distracted the keeper. That might be debatable but it's pretty clear that the refereeing team changed their story on what the goal was ruled out for.
https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/sport/23853333.afc-bournemouth-ryan-christie-scotlands-loss-spain/
If this is the case I think the SFA need to seek clarification on the decision. It won’t change the result obviously, but if you just meekly let stuff like that slide then things aren’t ever going to improve.
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23 minutes ago, Honest_Man#1 said:
Booked travel to get to West Germany Saturday 15th-Friday 21st. Think my mates have fucked it though by putting it off for so long despite my repeated attempts to get stuff booked, as accommodation in Cologne and Düsseldorf is incredibly limited now.
Cologne and Dusseldorf has been very hard to get reasonably priced accommodation in since late June. I managed to very luckily get one week booked in Dusseldorf but had to get week 2 in Bonn, which is far cheaper but close enough to the Rhine/Ruhr stadiums that you can just travel on the day.
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13 minutes ago, Kevin Finnerty said:
And if we win this game we'll have a 33% winning away record against them but I don't think that stat is really going to tell you much about the relative quality of the two teams in the year 2023.
We got the huge qualification hoodoo off our back for the last Euros so I have confidence that this squad can put the Georgia away demons to rest.
It’s worth bearing in mind we have won 5/6 games in this group and it may very well have been 6/6 with a different referee and a slice of luck.
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These are the current pot projections.
Looking at these, I wouldn’t say there’s a significant advantage to being pot 2 over pot 3. If Croatia drop any more points then we will likely have a 50/50 chance of drawing a team who are clearly better than us from pot 3. I’d genuinely fancy our chances against the pot 2 teams more.
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1 minute ago, Skyline Drifter said:
People keep quoting this list as if it's different pieces of evidence. It's not. It's all coming from the signal he gave, and McGinn has not at any point to date said the referee actually said that to him.
Does anyone know what language they use for the VAR review? Referee team were Dutch last night. Was the VAR also Dutch or is that different since it's conducted centrally. Are they all communicating in a second language (presumably English)? It's far from a reach that the referee feeding back that he agrees the offside player is "interfering" with the keeper is erroneously then passed on as "foul".
Genuinely, how can you know that these are all the same piece of evidence?
It’s likely the referee and VAR team were communicating with each other about the offence that they’ve flagged up and disallowed the goal for. It’s also likely that McGinn was in communication with the ref during the match, including with the immediate aftermath.
It being given as a foul initially is more likely than not from the evidence and information we currently have.
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3 minutes ago, craigkillie said:
But there's a very likely prospect that 2) only happens because 1) happens, and 3) only happens because 2) happens. The ref gives an unclear signal, so the people in the control room dealing with the graphics (in stadium and on broadcast) interpret it as a foul. The screens then show foul, and the players see that in the stadium.I'm not sure they are 3 separate pieces of evidence as people are claiming.
I agree that it’s not outwith the realms of possibility, but insisting that this is probably what’s happened with the evidence we currently have is just conjecture.
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14 minutes ago, craigkillie said:
Again, far too much faith is being put in one instance of a guy pointing somewhere. We don't know what actual decision the ref gave in that instance, only the referee does really, unless he verbally said it over the VAR comms. Just to be clear again, a decision and a signal are not the same thing.I've said already, it would be useful to see how the game actually restarted - did the ref have his hand up for an indirect free-kick when it was taken?
Given that;
1.) The referee signalled for a foul
2.) UEFA and the VAR team initially communicated that it had been disallowed for a foul
3.) John McGinn indicated in two separate interviews that the referee initially gave it as a foul
then it’s fair to assume that in all likelihood it WAS initially called as a foul on the keeper and the position of “we really can’t possibly know what it was given for at this time” is clutching at straws.
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2 minutes ago, Honest_Man#1 said:
In that case, other than the dream scenario of a draw on Sunday, I’m definitely in the Spain to win and confirm qualification camp if we can still secure pot 2, whereas I was starting to sway towards Norway winning to give us a chance of topping the group. I completely understand people just wanting qualified asap, but being pot 1/2 at the tournament vs pot 3/4 is a huge difference in terms of chances of progression.
To be fair if you look at the projected pots on We Global, the advantage in being pot 2 instead of pot 3 isn’t all that big.
As it stands Italy, Netherlands and potentially Croatia are likely to be in pot 3, so we could still get a nightmare draw with 2 “big” teams that we would definitely be underdogs against in our group despite us securing pot 2.
The good thing is we are very, very unlikely to end up in pot 4 with our points total unless we somehow ended up needing a playoff to qualify, so we should be expecting to get at least 3 points in the final’s group stage.
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Just now, Donathan said:
If that happens, I think both would be capped at 20 points. I think the Netherlands/France scenario is the only one that can relegate us down to pot 3 IF we win the two games in November.
Yeah you’re right, my mistake. Looks like we’ll know for certain after the France game tonight whether 6/6 will be enough for at least pot 2.
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Just now, Desp said:
Agree with this summary, particularly on Porteous & McGinn. It just wasn't McGinn's night at all, the ball either didn't stick with him or he was giving it away. I appreciate the Spanish were constantly counter pressing anytime they lost the ball but he could've won us a few more fouls. Porteous, I thought, was incredible last night. I always questioned, prior to his call-ups, whether he'd ever be good enough at this level but he's got better and better in each game he's played. One of the first names on the team sheet now.
I would bet a lot of money that if Spain had scored a goal like that last night, it would not have been overturned. At best, the officials took the cowards way out. At worst...
Yup. Does anyone here really believe that goal would have been disallowed if Spain had scored it?
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2 minutes ago, Honest_Man#1 said:
Not sure this is correct, looking at the groups there are a few who would be able to finish second with that sort of points total?
@Donathan thoughts on the post above? If we can finish 2nd and still have a chance at pot 2 that would be huge.
The 6 team groups don't count their points gained against the bottom placed sides.
Mathematically, the only threat to us being pot 2 in that scenario is either;
1.) The Dutch win the rest of their matches (including against France) and end up with a better GD than us
or
2.) Belgium vs Austria tonight ends in a draw, and neither team drops any other points in their remaining fixtures.
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Wanting a Norway win on Sunday is mental, as that leaves us being a slip up in Georgia away from a nerve wracking do or die match against Norway where they will have all the momentum.
If we were to win our last 2 games we will almost certainly be in pot 2 as the best runner up with 21/24 points - that’s an achievable goal and has less unbearable pressure on it than if we are going into matches worrying about the unthinkable happening.
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13 minutes ago, The Moonster said:
Also why do people keep saying he made the wrong hand signal? John McGinn has already confirmed that the ref gave a foul and then later changed it to offside when asked again. Stop making excuses for a ref who was clearly out of his depth last night.
The contrarians and pedants need their fix
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13 minutes ago, Zetterlund said:
Nah, I can't see Spain fecking it up there when it'd mean a real chance they'd go out.
If Spain had pretty much qualified already then I'd have the fear.
I think that unless they get beat by more than 3 against Norway then maximum points from their last two (Georgia at home, Cyprus away) will see them qualified.
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1 minute ago, craigkillie said:
They're not relevant in the slightest to the discussion of what constitutes interfering with play.For part 2, the offside decision was made in the same way every offside decision is made using VAR in these qualifiers, and we were given an image with the lines drawn later on. For part 3, that's not at all actually clear, and also isn't important to the overall discussion of whether the goal should have been given or not.
Surely the decision that was made on the field is the most relevant point of discussion here? It’s the reason why the goal was disallowed.
If McGinn is telling the truth and the ref gave it as a foul and *not* as offside then how can you say this is irrelevant?
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McGinn said that the referee told him at the time that it was disallowed for a foul rather than for offside. Is everyone missing that?
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I’m getting pre annoyed the more I think about this decision tbh
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15 minutes ago, S7C said:
Wasn’t just the goal though. The guy was at it all night. Every 50/50 given their way, McGinn completely wiped out on the edge of their box and told to get up.
It was really one-sided. Don’t think we can argue that Spain didn’t deserve to win, but we weren’t helped in the slightest.
Funnily enough, I felt the exact same way about the referee in Oslo. Suppose UEFA can’t be having a Euros without Spain or one of their poster boys in Haaland…
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Norway v Spain - Sunday 15/10/23
in Tartan Army Ramblings
Posted
This is genuinely corrupt