The Wrestling Thread

[Marshmallo]

Does that mean you are a fan of Cena, who does the same?

I would prefer to see a top wrestling match like Ziggler vs Morrison that the crowd is not into than a Hogan vs HBK awful wrestling match that had a massive atmosphere. Each to their own I suppose.

I didn't rate Cena until the last few months, he's not in the same league as someone like the Rock or Austin but he's the best in the business today.

I can appreciate good matches, the workratey typ crap exhibited by RoH is a load of horsehit IMO but those are allegedly "top wrestling matches" according to most smarks.

[domthefifearab]

Savage

He was shit back in his prime.

Anyone else think we could see a big return or new superstar at the Royal Rumble? Outside HHH offcourse as that looks a cert.

Christian, Jericho, Batista or Awesome Kong anyone?

with it being a 40 man Rumble their's no doubt someone's coming back ( HHH is a certainty ) Batista says he will never be back although we've heard all that before ...

Do you think Undertaker will make it ? might be too early with his Shoulder ?

[DavidVillaNo1]

Aye ok!

What is up with Ziggler and Morrison?

Feel free to state which wrestlers you think are currently the best in WWE and which ones have potential.

[DavidVillaNo1]

I told a lie, I have seen that Hogan HBK match, and if memory serves then it was a comical over selling, obviously wasn't a serious match.

It was meant to be a serious match but Hogan refused to job that night so HBK rightly or wrongly took it into his own hands to over-sell Hogan's moves as a payback.

The match was the longest of the night as it was the main event, so WWE had banked on this as the big fight. Sadly it was rotten.

I didn't rate Cena until the last few months, he's not in the same league as someone like the Rock or Austin but he's the best in the business today.

I can appreciate good matches, the workratey typ crap exhibited by RoH is a load of horsehit IMO but those are allegedly "top wrestling matches" according to most smarks.

Cena best in the business? Really

with it being a 40 man Rumble their's no doubt someone's coming back ( HHH is a certainty ) Batista says he will never be back although we've heard all that before ...

Do you think Undertaker will make it ? might be too early with his Shoulder ?

Batista is a strange one as his MMA career has never really worked and apparently he made noises to return. I think Awesome Kong, HHH and one other superstar will atleast be in this 40 man RR.

Not sure about Taker I suppose he could make his return on Smackdown at any time.

Edited January 20, 2011 by DavidVillaNo1

[DomDom]

I like this new guy in the thread. Got some brilliant discussion going.

That's a slight exaggeration.

Actually, but only a slight one indeed. Both eyes when he did the "googly eyes" thing. Sent a crowd crazy. Same point though. The Rock was amazing at the same thing actually.

Never rated Warrior or Savage personally, liked Hogan when I was younger but when you grow up and start to appreciate real technical wrestlers like Flair, Perfect, Bret, Angle, Eddie etc you start to see how poor and limited Hogan was in the ring.

I won't deny that Hogan was limited in the ring. He knew how to work within though. Although I find it funny when you say...

A formula, you mean having the near exact same routine every single week? Hogan was EXACTLY like the current Cena who only uses a small amount of moves, matches carried by their opponents until the usual superhero finish to the matches.

When the only thing Ric Flair had that wasn't in there was the superhero finish. He had a formula, and it worked. He did the same wee number of spots but, again, they worked.

Not many of the great wrestlers of the past had a very varied moveset. Bret Hart? Mr. Perfect? Not exactly budding Rey Mysterios with the number of moves they did.

I would prefer to see a top wrestling match like Ziggler vs Morrison that the crowd is not into than a Hogan vs HBK awful wrestling match that had a massive atmosphere. Each to their own I suppose.

Ziggler and Morrison had boring as sin matches any time they stepped through the curtain. Of course, HBK/Hogan was shit as well, but lets not act as if that match you mentioned would be any better.

Did you see the Daniel Bryan vs Dolph Ziggler match at Bragging Rights? Many people believe it was match of the year, but when it's HBK vs Taker at WM that wins hands down for the emotional part rather than technical wrestling match.

HBK/Taker was infact an amazing example of storytelling in a match and THAT'S why it won, with The Undertaker realising how big a threat that HBK was, so he went for the big finishers right from the first second, and then HBK had to keep countering and then went to the Plan B of going to the legs, but ultimately The Undertaker wore him down with the big bombs. That was why it won MOTY.

Ziggler has produced some excellent matches over the last couple of years and if he was given time he would be able to put on excellent matches with the likes of Edge, Christian and so on.

Agreed. Dolph Ziggler has amazing potential. Just didn't do it with John Morrison, who is also someone else I think can have brilliant matches.

What is up with Ziggler and Morrison?

I don't think the problem is those two guys as wrestlers. Their matches with each other were boring. Two guys can have zero chemistry and therefore no good matches, in much the same way as two shit wrestlers can have a cracker. Did you ever see The Big Bossman vs. The Barbarian from a Royal Rumble one year?

[#Gary]

I reckon Jericho will come back at the Rumble, whether it seems 'too early' or not. I predicted Edge would come back at last years and was told it was 'too early' for his return as well.

Wasn't there also talk of Brock Lesnar coming back? Obviously the rumours were he would fued with Taker so I'm not sure how that'd work if he was to win the Rumble but still ..

Other possibilities: The Great Khali, Skip Sheffield?, Christian, Goldust (where's he been?)

Edited January 20, 2011 by garymcc1874

[DomDom]

With Brock now confirmed for The Ultimate Fighter, there is NO chance he'll be at the Rumble.

Chris Jericho is a possibility, but apparently he has still got some Fozzy business to take care of. Maybe an appearance to tide us over?

I'd love an nWo reunion in the Rumble.

[DomDom]

WWE No Way Out 2001

We continue arguably the most consistant year of WWE PPV with this bad boy.

Raven © vs. The Big Show - WWE Hardcore Championship ( * )

Chris Jericho © vs. X-Pac vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit - WWE Intercontinental Championship ( ****1/4 )

Stephanie McMahon vs. Trish Stratus ( ***1/2 )

Triple H vs. Steve Austin, Three Stages of Hell Match ( ***** )

Steven Richards vs. Jerry Lawler ( * )

The Dudley Boys © vs. Edge and Christian vs. Kane and The Undertaker, Tables Match - WWE World Tag Team Championships ( **1/2 )

Kurt Angle © vs. The Rock - WWE World Heavyweight Championship ( ****1/2 )

Raven © vs. The Big Show - WWE Hardcore Championship

The hardcore title seemed to have phases where the hardcore title was good and important and this was one of those times, as the bigger names decided to go for it and give us a reason to care about the belt. Raven decided "f**k this" and decided to take them all on. Thus not only giving credibility to the title, but to Raven as well as he came across as one bad mofo on a mission. Sound good so far? Good. Because it was. Some ninja woman runs up on Show before he even gets a chance to walk down the ramp. Raven takes the chance to get his shots in, but Show then with stop sign shots to the head and this match heads for the ringside area. Raven sent into the steps and then a Headbutt from Show. Another Headbutt and then Show charges and hits the ringpost. Raven mounts the back of Show. Show pulls Raven over and drops him on the mats. Raven then sprays a fire extinguisher and then hits Show with it. Raven into the ring. Baseball Slide from Raven. THE ACID DROP FROM CRASH !!! Show with a slam and then a Slam from Show. THE FINAL CUT FROM SHOW !!! ONE ! TWO ! THRE ... BLACKMAN IN !!! In comes Hardcore now and this is breaking down. Holly has trashcan lids. TOP ROPE KENDO STICK SHOT TO THE HEAD FROM BLACKMAN !!! FAMEASSER FROM GUNN !!! ONE ! TWO ! THREE !!! Right, so this thing is still going hard here. Back Drop Suplex from Hardcore. SIDEWALK SLAM/LEG DROP FROM HARDCORE AND BLACKMAN !!! Show comes back into the match and throws Blackman out of the ring. Raven takes a pin back. Crash with a School Boy and that gets a nearfall. HUGE GORILLA PRESS SLAM FROM SHOW !!! MOLLY HITS NINJA !!! Trashcan shots to Show. CHOKESLAM FROM THE SHOW INTO THE TRASHCAN !!! ONE ! TWO ! THREE !!! Gunn is up and he lands some right hands. Gunn into the ropes and he gets sent over the top rope. I guess Show won the match. Show heads for the back after laying a beating on Gunn.

This was entertaining enough, if a complete waste of time. *

Chris Jericho © vs. X-Pac vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit - WWE Intercontinental Championship

This promises to be a whole lot of fun here! Eddie and Benoit get in the ring together and everyone has a mass brawl. Eddie and Jericho pair off. Pac and Benoit. Eddie into the ropes and he runs into a Flapjack. Kicks to the stomach in the corner from Jericho and then some chops. Right hands from Jericho and he runs into an elbow. Eddie runs into a Stun Gun and Jericho with a Clothesline gets a two. In comes Benoit with chops on Jericho and the Eddie joins in the beating. Jericho into the corner and a Clothesline from Eddie and then Benoit with more chopping. Jericho into the ropes and he runs right into the Back Elbow from Benoit. Jericho into the corner and Eddie misses a charge. Jericho with the Spinning Heel Kick on Eddie. Pac with the Spin Kick on Jericho. Benoit knocks down Pac and then unloads with right hands and Eddie joins in on that again. Eddie now heads for the top rope. CRIPPLER CROSSFACE FROM BENOIT ON PAC !!! Eddie then gets crotched on the top rope. Into the corner and to the floor goes Benoit and he does battle with Jericho. Pac and Eddie in the ring. Superplex is blocked by Eddie. FROG SPLASH FROM EDDIE !!! ONE ! TWO ! THR ... JERICHO SAVES !!! Jericho with a chop sends Eddie to the floor and then Benoit with right hands and chops. Jericho comes back with some of his own. Benoit with the Short Arm Clothesline and Jericho gets a boot on the bottom rope. Stomps now from Benoit and Jericho. Eddie gets sent over the top rope. Snap Suplex from Benoit and that gets a two count. Benoit into the ropes and he runs into the Spinning Heel Kick and then Pac has him in the corner. Jericho heads for the top rope. Missile Dropkick off of the top. Benoit with a big charge out of the corner and that gets a two count. GERMAN SUPLEX FROM BENOIT !!! ONE ! TWO ! KICKOUT !!! Benoit and Eddie are now going at it. BIG RANA FROM EDDIE !!! Everyone is now in the ring. Oh, Jericho and Pac heads for the floor. Face Twist from Eddie. SNAP SUPLEX ON THE FLOOR FROM JERICHO !!! BACK DROP DRIVER IN THE FROM EDDIE TO BENOIT !!! ONE ! TWO ! KICKOUT !!! Jericho gets sent into the steel steps. Suplex from Eddie and then he heads for the top rope. THE FROG SPLASH ... Benoit stops him up there. TOP ROPE SUPERPLEX FROM BENOIT TO EDDIE !!! Pac tries to steal the cover along with Jericho and neither man can take the pin there. Pac and Eddie head for the floor. Double Underhook Backbreaker gets a two count for Jericho. More chops from Jericho in the corner and then Benoit comes back with chops of his own. School Boy gets a two count for Jericho and then a BRUTAL Clothesline from Benoit. Face first into the steps goes Pac. Benoit now chokes Jericho in the corner with his foot. Stomps in the corner from Benoit. Eddie and Pac have their brawl on the floor. Some reversals from Benoit and Jericho. GERMAN SUPLEX FROM BENOIT !!! VICTORY ROLL ... THROUGH TO THE WALLS OF JERICHO ON BENOIT !!! EDDIE COMES IN AND JERICHO LOCKS IN THE WALLS !!! THE SAME FOR X-PAC !!! Justin Credible onto the apron. DRAGON SUPLEX FROM BENOIT TO JERICHO !!! ONE ! TWO ! THRE ... EDDIE SAVES !!! Benoit and Eddie now do battle. Benoit dragged to the floor. DOUBLE SUPERKICK AND DOWN GOES BENOIT ON THE FLOOR !!! Bulldog on Eddie. LIONSAULT ON EDDIE !!! ONE ! TWO ! THRE ... X-PAC SAVES !!! Jericho gets over Pac. Low blow. THE X-FACTOR !!! ONE ! TWO ! THRE ... BENOIT SAVES !!! Benoit knocks Credible down. THE CRIPPLER CROSSFCE ... BROKEN WITH A FLIPPING NECKBREAKER !!! AWESOME !!! Everyone is down now. Back Drop Suplex and then Benoit heads for the top rope. FLYING HEADBUTT FROM THE TOP FROM BENOIT !!! SPIN KICK !!! ROLL UP FROM JERICHO !!! ONE ! TWO ! THREEEEEEEEEE !!!

That was an awesome action packed funfest from all four men there. There was a spell in the middle of the match where they hinted at the action that was coming, and then they unloaded with all sorts of awesome down the stretch. ****1/4

Stephanie McMahon vs. Trish Stratus

This match recieved rave reviews. Well, I say rave reviews, but that was in comparison to what people were expecting from them. Busta Rhymes is at WWE New York. JR and Lawler want Test's thoughts on the upcoming match. Stephanie looks like she means real business. The crowd heat for this one is pretty insane btw. When the bell rings you can hear the excitement. Stephanie is the early aggressor in this one and Trish tries to get the hell out of there. Trish climbs up the ropes but then just gets planted in the middle of the ring. Short Arm Clothesline from Stephanie and then another. Hairpull Takeover from Steph and then just continues to pull away. Trish then gets dumped to the floor. Stephanie runs into a boot and then gets chucked over the barrier. Stephanie with a big forearm and then lands a Clothesline off of the barrier. Letting it all hang out here! Stephanie back onto the apron now and then the Neck Snap over the top rope from Trish turns the momentum around. Head first into the top buckle goes Stephanie and then into the corner. Big slaps from Trish and then she just unloads on Stephanie. BULLDOG FROM TRISH !!! ONE ! TWO ! THRE ... KICKOUT !!! Obviously not the big finisher that the move would become. Kick to the stomach from Trish and then a forearm. DDT FROM TRISH !!! ONE ! TWO ! KICKOUT !!! Stephanie dumped into the corner and then she chokes Trish and hangs her from the top rope. Knee Drop down across the back of the head is missed and Stephanie slams her back into the middle of the ring. Trish charges and then Stephanie dumps her to the floor. Head first into the announce tables goes Trish. Stephanie then soaks Trish. Stephanie wants to hit Trish with the pitcher and then gets a kick to the stomach. Back into the ring they go. POWERBOMB FROM STEPHANIE !!! ONE ! TWO ! THRE ... KICKOUT !!! STEPHANIE GIVES TRISH A SPANKING !!! Stephanie is now trying to strip Trish and she's loving this. BOTH MEN RUN AT EACH OTHER AND PLANT THE FACES !!! William Regal is now heading for the ring and he catches the referee with a shot. TRISH ON TOP OF STEPHANIE !!! ONE ! TWO ! THRE ... REGAL PUTS THE FOOT ON THE BOTTOM ROPE !!! Trish slaps Regal. REGAL CUTTER FROM REGAL !!! ONE ! TWO ! THREEEEEEE !!!

You have to give amazing credit to both ladies here. This was never going to be a technical classic but it was a heated and incredibly intense battle. I took a bit off the score for the shit ending. I loved the story running through with Stephanie wanting humiliate Trish Stratus as well as beating her. Both women brought the hate on a huge level. Brilliant. ***1/2

Triple H vs. Steve Austin, Three Stages of Hell Match

Fall One: Of course, this is the reason you want to see this show. I'm sure I did a PBP of this before and hit the magical 5* spot with great ease. We have the right hands to get this thing going. Back Elbow from Austin and then right hands. Into the corner and Austin stomps down HHH. Austin explodes out of the corner with a Clothesline and then lands a bunch of right hands. Manhattan Drop misses from HHH and Austin with another Clothesline. HHH wants to get away from Austin and then more right hands from Austin. Lou Thesz Press is countered to the Stun Gun. That's ironic in it's own way. Pedigree ... countered to the Single Arm DDT. HHH then rolls to the floor. Austin slams the face of HHH into the steps and then the arm into the ringpost. The arm goes into the ringpost a second and third time. Back into the ring and HHH can't hook the Pedigree because of the bad arm, and then Austin goes to work on the arm again. Thesz Press and then the right hands and Austin hits LOADS of them. That gets a two count for Austin. Right hands from Austin and then HHH into the ropes and Austin hits a Spinebuster and then Austin to the middle rope. Elbow Drop ... HHH raises the boot and Austin hits it. Hard. Swinging Neckbreaker from HHH. The fans get right behind Austin here. Another Neckbreaker from HHH and then he lands Knee Drops on the back of the head of Austin. Kicks to the stomach from HHH and then Austin kicks his way out of the corner. HHH with a right hand and then the chop block. That is probably more out of desperation more than anything else. To the ringpost they go now and HHH slams the leg of Austin around the ringpost. Austin pulls HHH into the ringpost face first. HHH gets back into the ring and gets the chop block again. HHH then lands an Elbow Drop across the leg of Austin. Austin now coming back with right hands, but HHH with a kick to the leg and then he slams the knee into the canvas. FIGURE FOUR LEGLOCK FROM HHH !!! HHH is using the ropes to gain illegal leverage. Austin turns the move around on him. HHH drops elbows on the leg and Austin just kicks HHH over and over again and then lands some right hands and then smashes the face of HHH into the top buckle. Thesz Press again from Austin. Into the ropes and he drops the elbow and that gets a two count. Austin spins and lands a big Clothesline and now he's waiting for HHH to get to his feet. KICK ... STUNNER ... countered. Neckbreaker from HHH. That gets a two count. Both men try for pins and this is a desperate first fall. Right hands in the corner from Austin and then a kick to the leg from HHH. HHH JUMPS INTO THE STONE COLD STUNNER !!! ONE ! TWO ! THREE !!!

Fall Two: Now we're going to get into the meat of the match. Austin throws HHH to the floor and this is what he wanted. Suplex on the ramp from Austin. Another Suplex on the ramp from Austin. Head first into the steps and then around the ring they go and Austin sends HHH into the US announce table and now he's getting the Spanish Announce Table ready. MONITOR TO THE HEAD FROM AUSTIN TO HHH !!! Austin is now throwing chairs into the ring. HHH is heading for the exit, and Austin stops him on the stairs and he lands a lot of right hands. HHH finds his way back to the ring and winds up getting a chair across the back and then again. Austin unloads on HHH with the chair. The fans are going mental now. Austin then brings the point of the chair down across the stomach of HHH and that gets a two count. Back to the ringside area they go and HHH has his head slammed into the timekeeper's table and then he has a 2x4 wrapped in barbed wire. HHH with a kick to the gut of Austin to avoid disaster. BARBED WIRE TO THE HEAD OF AUSTIN !!! HHH then gets the US announce table ready. Onto the table and HHH mounts Austin and then lands a series of right hands. HHH WITH THE PEDIGREE ON THE US TABLE ... AUSTIN COUNTERS AND SENDS HHH THROUGH THE SPANISH ANNOUNCE TABLE WITH A BACK BODY DROP !!! Beer can to the head of HHH and then a series of right hands to the face. Austin to the ref: "Get the f**k outta my way!". Get him telt Austin. Back into the ring now. THE RING BELL TO THE HEAD OF AUSTIN !!! ONE ! TWO ! THR ... KICKOUT !!! NECKBREAKER ON THE CHAIR FROM HHH !!! ONE ! TWO ! KICKOUT !!! Austin won't stay down either. HHH into the ropes and the Sleeper Hold from Austin. BACK DROP SUPLEX ON THE CHAIR FROM HHH !!! ONE ! TWO ! KICKOUT !!! HHH is getting annoyed now. PEDIGREE ON THE CHAIR ... HHH GETS DUMPED OVER THE TOP ROPE !!! HHH then gets sent into the ringpost and then he grabs a chair. BRUTAL CHAIR SHOT RIGHT TO THE HEAD FROM AUSTIN !!! Austin now has the steps. AUSTIN THROWS THE STEPS AT THE HEAD OF HHH !!! Absolute carnage at ringside at the moment. Head first into the steps goes Austin. HHH has been busted open as well. HHH falls over. HHH then brings out the sledgehammer. The King accuses JR of putting it there. JR : "I didn't put it there you dumbass!" Into the ring they go and now Austin grabs the sledgehammer. Stomps to the chest from Austin. Austin with right hands. SLEDGEHAMMER TO THE HEAD FROM HHH !!! THE PEDIGREE FROM HHH !!! ONE ! TWO ! THREE !!!

Fall Three: Down comes the steel cage and these guys are now going the whole way. The chairs and other stuff are still in the ring with them. Austin is now coming back but HHH slams his head right into the steel cage wall. More mounted right hands from HHH. Austin then gets slammed into the cage a second time and HHH has the barbed wire 2x4. HHH RAKES THE FACE OF AUSTIN WITH THE BARBED WIRE !!! CHAIR TO THE HEAD BREAKS THAT !!! AUSTIN WITH THE BARBED WIRE TO THE HEAD OF HHH !!! ONE ! TWO ! THR ... KICKOUT !!! DDT ON THE CHAIR FROM HHH TO AUSTIN !!! ONE ! TWO ! KICKOUT !!! Austin comes back with kicks and then right hands and into the corner where Austin is unloading. That gets him a two count. HHH is wanting to get the hell out of there and Austin is now chasing him as JR tells us that this match can't be won by escaping. AUSTIN CROTCHED ON THE TOP ROPE !!! Austin grabs HHH though and slams him back into the middle of the ring and that gets a two count. More right hands from Austin. PEDIGREE FROM HHH !!! ONE ! TWO ! THRE ... KICKOOOOUUUUTTTTT !!! HHH WITH A CHAIR TO THE HEAD OF AUSTIN !!! PEDIGREE ... AUSTIN COUNTERS AND CATAPULTS HHH INTO THE CAGE !!! THE STUNNER FROM AUSTIN !!! ONE ! TWO ! THRE ... KICKOOOOUUUUTTTTTTT !!! BOTH MEN HIT EACH OTHER AND HHH LANDS ON AUSTIN !!! ONE ! TWO ! THREE !!!

See how I called the last match intense? That was nothing compared to this one. Even the first fall with the straight rules just smacked of desperation right from the word go. I absolutely loved that ending which basically seen both men not being able to continue any further, and Triple H just happening to be lucky enough to get the victory. *****

Steven Richards vs. Jerry Lawler

Lawler gets this going with right hands to the face of Richards. Considering how over this faction was, I think it's a shame they were limited to a shit place on the card with Jerry Lawler. Short Arm Clothesline from Lawler to Richards and then a Body Slam and a Fist Drop. Richards heads for the floor. Richards then gets sent to the floor. The Kat goes for Ivory and then slaps her. Lawler gets sent into the ringpost. Back into the ring and that gets a two count. Richards then charges and misses and Lawler with a bunch of right hands in the corner. He just keeps going and the fans like that. Bulldog from Lawler and that gets a two count. Into the corner and Richards is working over Lawler. Kicks to the stomach from Richards and then he lands a Suplex and that gets a two count. Richards heads for the floor and he brings a steel chair into the ring. Low blow from Lawler. DDT FROM LAWLER !!! ANOTHER DDT FROM LAWLER !!! Ivory gets onto the apron and now Kat gets into the ring and the referee stops her. Richards tries to crown Lawler with the women's title. Lawler with a Body Slam on Ivory and Teddy Long tries to get Ivory out of the ring. Once again, Richards can't do the job of hitting Richards with the belt. LAWLER GETS HIT WITH THE BELT BY THE KAT !!! ONE ! TWO ! THREE !!!

That was a spirited effort from both men there which was a pleasant surprise. *

The Dudley Boys © vs. Edge and Christian vs. Kane and The Undertaker, Tables Match - WWE World Tag Team Championships

Edge and Christian don't want to confront Undertaker and Edge, but then The Dudleys get in behind them. Taker and Kane wind up brawling with the Dudleys. Devon gets launched from the ramp and then Ray after that. Edge and Christian then go for The Undertaker and Kane and that doesn't end well obviously. The brawl heads around the ringside area. Taker with a big right hand to Christian. Heads slammed into the announce table by Taker and Kane. Ray and Devon turn up with chair shots to Taker and Kane. CHAIRS TO THE HEADS OF TAKER AND KANE !!! Edge and Christian take the chance to take control of the match. Devon into the ropes and he catches Edge with the Clothesline. Devon then chokes Edge with the boot. MASSIVE Back Body Drop from Ray to Christian. Devon gets sent face first into the top buckle. Ray then misses a charge and now Christian and Edge set Ray on the top rope. Edge and Christian then stand on the balls of Ray. Devon comes back into the ring and eats a punch in the face. Edge and Christian now have chairs. CON-CHAIR-TO ... ducked. Edge catapulted into Christian. THE WASSUP HEADBUTT FROM THE DUDLEYS !!! Taker and Kane unload on Devon now. UNPRETTIER ON RAY !!! Taker and Kane now in the ring unleashing their wrath on Edge and Christian. Running Powerslams from both men now. Taker and Kane then head for the top rope. Both men with Flying Clotheslines from the top rope. Tables are sent into the ring. The fans are chanting that they want tables. There's three set now! Get a grip ya wallopers! Clothesline in the corner. Big Boot from Kane to Christian. Everyone now works on Kane and Undertaker. Devon is setting up a table now. THE UNDERTAKER WITH THE CHOKESLAM THROUGH THE TABLE ... STOPPED !!! Double Suplex on Taker, but Kane turns the table over and that fails for them. STEREO CHOKESLAMS FOR EDGE AND CHRISTIAN !!! STEREO CHOKESLAMS TO THE DUDLEYS AS WELL !!! Haku and Rikishi now hit the ring and they attack The Undertaker and Kane. Edge and Ray now battle in the ring. SPEAR ... MISSES AND THE TABLE DOESN'T BREAK !!! Edge then gets chucked to the floor. 3D FROM THE DUDLEYS THROUGH THE TABLE !!! IT'S OVER !!!

This match is just such a mess it's hard to put a rating on it. It's fun at least, but it's all over the place. There was just far too much going on between the six men and it just didn't have the chance to digest. **1/2

Kurt Angle © vs. The Rock - WWE World Heavyweight Championship

The fans are just basically 100% behind The Rock here. Everybody wants to see The Rock vs. Steve Austin. Tazz sounds as if his voice is shot at this stage. He's had two matches to call before this one. What a pussy. I can talk for more than an hour and not have a sore throat. Rock explodes out of the corner with a Clothesline and then lands some stomps and right hands. Knee to the stomach from Angle and then he unleashes some stomps of his own. Rock comes back with big right hands and then Rock with the Back Elbow and other right hands. Russian Legsweep from Rock. Rock hits the ropes and then he runs right into the Clothesline from Angle. Stomps from Angle and then he chokes Rock with the boot. More right hands from Angle and the fans let him know what they think of him. Right hands from Rock, but he runs into the Drop Toe Hold. ANKLE LOCK FROM ANGLE ... Rock finds the bottom rope. Angle then chokes Rock over the middle rope. More right hands now from Angle and then some stomps and kicks. Rock into the ropes and then he comes back with right hands. Belly 2 Belly Suplex from Angle and then he lands a second. Rock comes back with a big move and then both men battle to their feet and Rock lands some big right hands. Flying Clothesline from The Rock. THE SHARPSHOOTER FROM THE ROCK !!! Kurt Angle manages to find the bottom rope. More right hands from Rock and then Angle into the ropes. Rock with the Samoan Drop and that gets a two count for the challenger. Back Drop Suplex from Angle and then he heads for the top rope. Rock stops him up there and then lands a couple of right hands. SUPERPLEX FROM THE ROCK !!! ONE ! TWO ! KICKOUT !!! Some fud gets dragged out by the security. The Rock then gets launched over the top rope. Rock gets back into the ring and lands the DDT. The Big Show's music hits now and the hardcore champion is heading for the ring. THE BIG SHOW WITH THE CHOKESLAM ON ANGLE !!! THE BIG SHOW WITH THE CHOKESLAM ON THE ROCK !!! He also lays out the referee for good measure. I don't like how his music played for his entrance and his exit. Seemed pretty odd. Angle is the first man up and now he's pinning The Rock. There's no referee. Earl Hebner gets in the ring and makes the count and The Rock kicks out. Earl Hebner gets back out and helps the referee that went down. The Rock goes over and grabs the title belt. TITLE BELT TO THE HEAD OF ANGLE !!! ONE ! TWO ! THR ... KICKOUT !!! The Rock can't believe he got up. KURT ANGLE GETS THE ANGLE LOCK OUT OF NOWHERE !!! Angle then slams the knee off of the canvas. Angle: "I'll break your fucking ankle!" Aye awrite Angle, calm doon! The Rock somehow manages to find his way to the bottom rope. Kicks to the ankle from Angle. They now get to the feet and Rock battles with right hands. Angle with a knee to the stomach but he runs right into the Spinebuster from Rock. THE PEOPLE'S ELBOW !!! ONE ! TWO ! THRE ... KICKOUT !!! The fans boo at that one. Into the corner where Rock lands some stomps to the gut of Angle and then he throws the referee away and then Angle gets a low blow. Angle now exposes the steel under one of the buckle pads. Rock comes back with right hands. ROCK SENT INTO THE STEEL !!! ANGLE SLAM FROM ANGLE !!! ONE ! TWO ! THRE ... KICKOOOOOUUUUTTTTTTT !!! Wow, that nearfall works even when you know who wins. Angle now with right hands and then Rock comes back with right hands of his own. Angle then kicks the ankle of The Rock. ANGLE SENT FACE FIRST INTO THE STEEL BUCKLE !!! THE ROCK BOTTOM HITS !!! ONE ! TWO ! THRE ... KICKOOOOOOUUUUUTTTTTTTT !!! The fans don't believe for one second that Angle kicked out and neither does anybody else. ROCK BOTTOM FROM ROCK !!! ONE ! TWO ! THREE !!!

When The Rock wrestlers, the entertainment factor of a match is already turned up a few notches. That was an absolutely amazing match as a result as Angle lifted his game a fair bit to keep up with The Rock's drive. ****1/2

In what was a pretty good year for WWE PPV wise, this just kept to the standard really. One absolute classic between HHH and Austin, a stunner of a main event which put over just how much the title means, and then some fun stuff on the undercard ( just how mental WAS that four way ). Of course there was the useless stuff as well but every show needs it's filler.

Even the next one. What one is that again?

[Cameron]

With Brock now confirmed for The Ultimate Fighter, there is NO chance he'll be at the Rumble.

Chris Jericho is a possibility, but apparently he has still got some Fozzy business to take care of. Maybe an appearance to tide us over?

I'd love an nWo reunion in the Rumble.

NWO reunion would be great. Only Nash would last beyond that night though. It must be great to be in the Klique, Vince looks after all of them rehab wise and this was before the offer of rehab was given to all ex-talent after the Benoit killings. Saying that Hall and Waltman are a huge gamble even with Vince and HHH onside.

Is Nash not going back to TNA?

Jericho is in Australia either right before or right after Mania, it would make no sense to bring him back if he cant be at Mania.

[DomDom]

Kevin Nash packed in TNA I think.

[DavidVillaNo1]

I like this new guy in the thread. Got some brilliant discussion going.

Cheers, I'm up for a decent debate.

When the only thing Ric Flair had that wasn't in there was the superhero finish. He had a formula, and it worked. He did the same wee number of spots but, again, they worked.

Possibly, more so he became that type of wrestler in his latter years with WWE. Still think he was far more technically gifted than Hogan.

Not many of the great wrestlers of the past had a very varied moveset. Bret Hart? Mr. Perfect? Not exactly budding Rey Mysterios with the number of moves they did.

Mysterio is another superhero type in WWE and does the same set of moves. He was much better in wCw.

Did you see the TNA World Cup 10 man elimination match? For me that is what you call real cruiserweight style wrestling, real fast paced action. IMHO Rey is not of that standard. Many of Rey's moves are just slight variations of the same move.

Edge, Angle, Benoit, Eddie G, Bret, Jericho, Mr Perfect are the 'technical' type wrestlers I was talking about, I don't class Cena's shoulder block or Rey's cross body as actual technical wrestling moves. Do you understand were I am coming from in that regard?

Ziggler and Morrison had boring as sin matches any time they stepped through the curtain. Of course, HBK/Hogan was shit as well, but lets not act as if that match you mentioned would be any better.

Their first match IIRC was a six minute match on SD, it was ok for the small time and some decent moves.

I enjoyed their IC Title match at Hell in a Cell 09, arguably match of the PPV. I'm sure the 2/3 falls match was decent enough aswell.

HBK/Taker was infact an amazing example of storytelling in a match and THAT'S why it won, with The Undertaker realising how big a threat that HBK was, so he went for the big finishers right from the first second, and then HBK had to keep countering and then went to the Plan B of going to the legs, but ultimately The Undertaker wore him down with the big bombs. That was why it won MOTY.

That was my original point the story of the match had fans emotionally involved and was the main factor in why it got MOTY. Pure wrestling wise I don't think it was as good as Bryan vs Ziggler. Infact HBK vs Taker 2 was not as good as the previous encounter IMO.

Agreed. Dolph Ziggler has amazing potential. Just didn't do it with John Morrison, who is also someone else I think can have brilliant matches.

Fair enough, I personally think if they are given 15-20 minutes to do as they wish on the big stage like HIAC 09 they can produce a good match. Both are more experienced and arguably better now.

I don't think the problem is those two guys as wrestlers. Their matches with each other were boring. Two guys can have zero chemistry and therefore no good matches, in much the same way as two shit wrestlers can have a cracker. Did you ever see The Big Bossman vs. The Barbarian from a Royal Rumble one year?

You are exactly correct. It's like Edge always brings the best out of Cena. I still maintain that those two could have a very good feud if both continue to rise in the WWE as real credible main eventers.

I reckon Jericho will come back at the Rumble, whether it seems 'too early' or not. I predicted Edge would come back at last years and was told it was 'too early' for his return as well.

Wasn't there also talk of Brock Lesnar coming back? Obviously the rumours were he would fued with Taker so I'm not sure how that'd work if he was to win the Rumble but still ..

Other possibilities: The Great Khali, Skip Sheffield?, Christian, Goldust (where's he been?)

I predicted Edge coming back at last years RR on my wrestling site. My best shout was RVD back in 2009. I never predicted Cena returning though, that was a major shock to me.

Khali is set to be in this year's rumble as far as I'm aware. Sheffield is still some time away from being back, Tarver is fit again but unsure if he will be still be with the company for much longer. Goldust is a good bit away I believe, 3 months?

I'd love Christian to come back and win the rumble and face Edge at mania, but he will probably be up against Del Rio at mania(if fit)

[DomDom]

Possibly, more so he became that type of wrestler in his latter years with WWE. Still think he was far more technically gifted than Hogan.

He certainly wasn't as limited. There wasn't really anything that Ric Flair couldn't do.

Ric Flair had that formula even in the 80s though and into the 90s. That was how he managed to have good matches with even the likes of Hawk and El Gigante.

Having a formula and sticking to it isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Did you see the TNA World Cup 10 man elimination match? For me that is what you call real cruiserweight style wrestling, real fast paced action. IMHO Rey is not of that standard. Many of Rey's moves are just slight variations of the same move.

I guess it was his WCW time that you referred to that I was talking about, with the point being that he used to pull out some ridiculous stuff on there.

I think Rey has been more disappointing than anything else recently. In the last couple of years I was impressed with the consistant high quality of his matches.

Edge, Angle, Benoit, Eddie G, Bret, Jericho, Mr Perfect are the 'technical' type wrestlers I was talking about, I don't class Cena's shoulder block or Rey's cross body as actual technical wrestling moves. Do you understand were I am coming from in that regard?

Aye, but when you mentioned the limited moveset I had to pick up on it.

These guys are obviously much better than your Cenas and your Hogans, but it's a different kind of wrestling, just like hardcore wrestling and high flying wrestling. I think John Cena can put on excellent matches even if his superman endings can be grating. At least Hogan had that air of invincibility about him. John Cena is just some normal guy that gets DDTed on concrete and then beats two guys in 30 seconds and I'd like to think there's a slight difference between the two.

I think that The Rock and Steve Austin are worth mentioning here, as while they weren't great technical wrestlers ( or Austin in his Attitude run ), they still managed to put on stellar matches.

Their first match IIRC was a six minute match on SD, it was ok for the small time and some decent moves.

I enjoyed their IC Title match at Hell in a Cell 09, arguably match of the PPV. I'm sure the 2/3 falls match was decent enough aswell.

They had a LOT of matches on Smackdown actually. None of them very good.

The HiaC match, I said this about...

My god this is dull. Mainly thanks to Dolph Ziggler being as green as the green green grass and having next to no offense for his beatdown section of the match, having to rely on far too much chinlockery to get through. The final stretch was decent enough, but not worth getting to.

... and I stand by that. Ziggler has come on a fair bit, to the point that he was able to keep up with Daniel Bryan going at full pelt. Not something to be scoffed at.

Nothing else really to say, except I guess Morrison vs. Ziggler could be better now bearing in mind what I said above.

[Marshmallo]

Cena best in the business? Really

At the moment, yes.

Batista is a strange one as his MMA career has never really worked and apparently he made noises to return.

He hasn't had a fight yet. Give him a chance. I think he'll show up in Strikeforce by the sounds of things.

I'd love an nWo reunion in the Rumble.

Words can't express how much I'd mark!

Kevin Nash packed in TNA I think.

I think there's a chance he could be part of the "they" this Crimson boy was talking about on Impact this week. Main Event Mafia led by Dixie Carter perhaps?

[DavidVillaNo1]

I think John Cena can put on excellent matches even if his superman endings can be grating. At least Hogan had that air of invincibility about him. John Cena is just some normal guy that gets DDTed on concrete and then beats two guys in 30 seconds and I'd like to think there's a slight difference between the two.

I agree with all this bar the first part, I remember laughing at the ending to that match, pathetic it was.

I can't think of many good Cena matches, the main ones have been in stipulation type matches like LMS vs Edge. I think it's a case of Edge/HBK carrying him to a good match than his own ability personally. I will give John his due that he works hard in the ring and is an athlete, however his coordination looks off at times and his moves look more fake than normal(faker than fake )

I think that The Rock and Steve Austin are worth mentioning here, as while they weren't great technical wrestlers ( or Austin in his Attitude run ), they still managed to put on stellar matches.

Both looked better in the ring though and their submission type moves/punches/signature moves were superior to Cena's. I actually think Austin is slightly over-rated and The Rock(wrestling wise) is under-rated. Dwayne had so many good matches on a consistent basis.

They had a LOT of matches on Smackdown actually. None of them very good.

Just seen they had 5 matches in the short feud in 2009. Still stand by that 2 of them were not that bad due to differing factors, one very good. Each to their own though.

... and I stand by that. Ziggler has come on a fair bit, to the point that he was able to keep up with Daniel Bryan going at full pelt. Not something to be scoffed at.

Fair enough that is your opinion.

I enjoyed it, you disliked it, people on Youtube thought it was a great ppv match, others probably though it was shit. Opinions eh?

Nothing else really to say, except I guess Morrison vs. Ziggler could be better now bearing in mind what I said above.

Put it this way if they were given 5-6 minute matches on Raw/Smackdown I would not expect it to be very good, if they are given enough time to produce a real good match I think they could get it done.

[DomDom]

I can't think of many good Cena matches, the main ones have been in stipulation type matches like LMS vs Edge. I think it's a case of Edge/HBK carrying him to a good match than his own ability personally. I will give John his due that he works hard in the ring and is an athlete, however his coordination looks off at times and his moves look more fake than normal

I'm a big fan of his matches with Umaga, JBL, Lashley, Rob Van Dam and Sheamus. That's off the top of my head. There are the guys you mentioned although for some reason, I was never a fan of the HBK matches.

I do agree on the execution of his moves. Sloppy as f**k and his submissions make him look constipated.

Both looked better in the ring though and their submission type moves/punches/signature moves were superior to Cena's. I actually think Austin is slightly over-rated and The Rock(wrestling wise) is under-rated. Dwayne had so many good matches on a consistent basis.

The Rock's submissions actually looked terrible as did a couple of his moves. The Belly 2 Belly Suplex and Samoan Drop come to mind.

What The Rock had was this ridiculous ability to drag you into his matches. His matches were always about the drama and nobody could put that kind of match together quite like The Rock.

Steve Austin was the staple of the Attitude era. The match with Dude Love at Over the Edge 1998 was like the template for every main event that followed. The Dude Love match itself is glorious.

[Shuggie_Murray7]

Not been around much and just finished catching up with RAW and SmackDown.

I'm bored or Orton. His promos are verging on the embarassing, that whole "bad guys finish last promo" was fucking dreadful.

Also verging on the embarassing is the push of Lawler. Why?

WTF have they done to Nexus? A sgtable of Punk with Otunga (shite), McGuillcutty (ok) and Harris(ok) just doesn't do it for me. Hopefully they get Skip Sheffield and Tarver back soon.

Not a fan of "comedy" tag team champions. WWE really have pissed all over the tag division, as if it wasn't apparent before this.

They seem to have a compulsion to stick Divas on commentary during RAW and it really is cringeworthy. Not only are women shite wrestlers, they can't talk for shit.

On SmackDown I'm glad to see Barrett. He is going to become the biggest heel in the company eventually IMO. He has the look, he's a good worker and he is shit hot on the mic. They need to give him a proper stable though. Gabriel and Slater look as though I could boot f**k out of them. I like Zeke though.

The Rumble is shaping up nicely. I'm looking forward to seeing Ziggle challenge. He won't win, but it should be good nonetheless.

As for the Rumble match, not sure what to make of the switch to 40 men. It may drag on abit, especially if they stack it with shite jobbers. As it stands, I'll go forn a final four of Cena, Punk, HHH and Kane.

EDIT: Not sure if this is serious or not, but I read that the new guy in Nexus is set to play "Batistas wee brother"

Edited January 20, 2011 by Shuggie_Murray7

[DavidVillaNo1]

I'm a big fan of his matches with Umaga, JBL, Lashley, Rob Van Dam and Sheamus. That's off the top of my head. There are the guys you mentioned although for some reason, I was never a fan of the HBK matches.

I do agree on the execution of his moves. Sloppy as f**k and his submissions make him look constipated.

I enjoyed his match with HBK at mania, but hated the '60 minute' match.

I'm not even going to get started on Lashley or RVD but his match with Lashley was one the poorest matches I have witnessed. I actually quite enjoyed his first match with Batista Rest were lame.

The Rock's submissions actually looked terrible as did a couple of his moves. The Belly 2 Belly Suplex and Samoan Drop come to mind.

What The Rock had was this ridiculous ability to drag you into his matches. His matches were always about the drama and nobody could put that kind of match together quite like The Rock.

Steve Austin was the staple of the Attitude era. The match with Dude Love at Over the Edge 1998 was like the template for every main event that followed. The Dude Love match itself is glorious.

I thought his Samoan drop was excellent, haha.

Mankind had some excellent matches, I miss the attitude era

Remember Austin vs Bret Submission match at mania 13?

[DomDom]

An all time classic indeed, and basically shaped the way for the rest of 1997 and had a major hand in Steve Austin becoming the megastar and as a result, completing the WWE revival.

Bret Hart was amazing in 1997. His promos were off the charts.

[DavidVillaNo1]

That's one thing that annoys me the criticism Bret gets about his charisma and promos. I thought at times he was fantastic on the mic.

[forehead7]

I'm not even going to get started on RVD

His time in WWE was amazing, IIRC his part in the MITB he won was great(which one at Mania hasn't been great?) and his match with Cena at One Night Stand was also amazing, up there in the best of both their matches, of what I can recall imo.

His time in TNA hasn't been great. He was unfit at the start of it and then when he was hitting full peak they took the title off him and benched him and he lost all his momentum. Glad they're giving Anderson the title and not him. He can't work the mic well enough, don't remember it being so aparently in WWE. I think it's TNA being too loose with the promos. I get the feeling that with RVD you need to give him lines rather than general ideas of what to talk about.