EdinburghLivi Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 That's the Gretna argument. You are in SFL1 because you are spending money you don't have. Allowing you stay in the SFL1 would mean not allowing someone else in because they managed themselves correctly. In a footballing sense, it rewards the bad boys.When things are going well, you adopt the "we" stance. When it goes badly, you adopt the "they" stance. It doesn't work. What and no one is doing that in this league? You're being extremely condescending and branding everyone in the same light. Again. In my mind, the person running the club will always be "they". The club and myself as a supporter are the "we". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 I must say I really don't see why the club should be punished because of arseholes running up debt in any administration case. It should be the person responsible that is punished, not the supporters, staff, businesses and sponsers associated with the club that have done nothing wrong. Ever heard of limited liability? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wall E Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 A bit of the Calum Eliots A good night out does a man the world of good. B) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRFC2711 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Hi people, New to this forum but what the hell, really feel for the fans of Livvy after having gone through the same thing ourselves years back. But we had to take our beating and are now getting back on track, but what really makes me unconcerned for the board of livingston was the way they treated us at the time, we were on the bones of our arse and livvy made a paltry offer for Toastie, Tosh and Andrews which our board had no option but to accept, The vultures bones are now being picked clean sweet Karma indeed. I know the board has changed, bringing its own problems but you guys were rolling in it when you virtually condemned my club by picking its bones for the best possible financial deal for your selfs. The pain is bad get out on the streets get behind the trust and start rattling tins, sponsored walks etc etc etc been there done that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghLivi Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Ever heard of limited liability? From a quick wiki search, I understand that it is a sum which a person's financial liability is limited to. Excuse my ignorance in the world of finance but could you please tell me how it is relevant in this case. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 (edited) From a quick wiki search, I understand that it is a sum which a person's financial liability is limited to. Excuse my ignorance in the world of finance but could you please tell me how it is relevant in this case. In the sense that Massone et al cannot be "punished" for what they have done. I guess it would be damn near impossible to say which pound of debt made things untenable, so it's not a matter of punishing them as people. The football club will be punished because that is the entity that benefits from the lack of financial care. Therefore it has to be the footballing entity that is punished by the footballing organisation. As pointed out elsewhere, Livingston have never had to pay a price for their financial mismanagement under Keane, or Flynn or Massone. They've maintained their status despite defaulting on millions of pounds worth of debt. If it happens again, then surely you can see that the club has to be punished. If not, then they'll just go and do it again. What would they have to lose? Edited May 23, 2009 by Guest 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonsilitis Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Limited liability means that for a company its shareholders liability is limited to what they have invested as shares. If you are a director, however, you are expected to run the company reasonably competently and if you don't you can be guilty of wrongful trading or even fraudulent trading. If you are, the court can order you to be personally liable for part or all of the company's debts. I hope for his sake, someone has explained this to Mr Massone. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 From a quick wiki search, I understand that it is a sum which a person's financial liability is limited to. Excuse my ignorance in the world of finance but could you please tell me how it is relevant in this case. See Tonsilitis' reply. In other words the law is one step ahead of you already. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmouth Strikes Again Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 The sooner this dying carcass of a football club breathes its last the better. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCL Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Hi people,New to this forum but what the hell, really feel for the fans of Livvy after having gone through the same thing ourselves years back. But we had to take our beating and are now getting back on track, but what really makes me unconcerned for the board of livingston was the way they treated us at the time, we were on the bones of our arse and livvy made a paltry offer for Toastie, Tosh and Andrews which our board had no option but to accept, The vultures bones are now being picked clean sweet Karma indeed. I know the board has changed, bringing its own problems but you guys were rolling in it when you virtually condemned my club by picking its bones for the best possible financial deal for your selfs. The pain is bad get out on the streets get behind the trust and start rattling tins, sponsored walks etc etc etc been there done that. It was your board who were hawking your three most valuable players around all the clubs because of your financial situation. Livi just happened to be the club that took up the offer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southview Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Like many others, I have enjoyed reading Duncan Freemason's posts on the situation at Livingston. From what I've read about meeting, I'd hope Livi fans don't fall for the emotional blackmail trick from Massone and spend their hard-earned cash on season tickets in the next week or so. If there are consequences as a result, then that bridge will be crossed at the time. Massone is a fraud and not to be trusted. He has let down everyone and even now (according to David MacKay in paper through the week) players are STILL waiting for April's wages. This season ticket money will pay Leigh Griffiths and some rent and then Massone will knock on the door this time next month and ask for some more money to help fund building of a new team and so this sorry shambles will go on. I have said before that I feel very sorry for the Lions fans who support the team passionately, but situations like this invariably mean the club will be punished if any sanctions are forthcoming. So I just hope that the SFL take the bull by the horns and give Livi a week to sort out the players' wages for April and May and put money aside to cover June's pay packets. If they can't manage this (which they won't) they should be relegated to division three. They can't allow this to go on. Also, the sale of Griffiths won't happen until the club is on its very last legs. Other teams will realise the current carry-on at Livi and won't be offering £300,000 or whatever when they might get him for 20% of that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neebur Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 southview:So I just hope that the SFL take the bull by the horns and give Livi a week to sort out the players' wages for April and May and put money aside to cover June's pay packets. If they can't manage this (which they won't) they should be relegated to division three. They can't allow this to go on. Spot on -- cant see how Livi can possibly carry on with much (any) credibility. They make Hearts look a model of good business practice. Maybe demotion to the depths of Div III would flush out the spivs and chancers, and let those with the interests of the club at heart start to build some decent, sustainable foundations. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 In my simpletons view. The directors of a limited company cannot really be touched if it goes belly up, I.E. USC owned by Tom Hunter goes bust owing millions, his liability is LIMITED to that company. None of his other can be touched. I that right. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zupa Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 As the S.F.L. looks on, and ponders, and wonders,and pauses ,......and does nothing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 As the S.F.L. looks on, and ponders, and wonders,and pauses ,......and does nothing. Don't worry I am sure Massone will cause his own downfall without the need of the football beaks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Darwin Esq Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 Don't worry I am sure Massone will cause his own downfall without the need of the football beaks That is entirely possible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 That is entirely possible. We have no manager or coaches in place for next season having sacked one set & suspened another & yet he wants fans to part with hard earned ££££££'s - he does live in a dream world 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattie_rojas Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 We have no manager or coaches in place for next season having sacked one set & suspened another & yet he wants fans to part with hard earned ££££££'s - he does live in a dream world I feel sorry for Livi fans having gone through the pain of administration. I remember going to a meeting of supporters and being told we were £23M in debt and the feeling of utter shock. Until Massone is removed I don't see how the club can move forward. It might be preferable to start again from scratch in the 3rd without him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghLivi Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 If we managed to retain most of our fanbase in the 3rd division then that is entirely plausible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedV Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 If we managed to retain most of our fanbase in the 3rd division then that is entirely plausible. Which you wouldn't, unfortunately. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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