mcjimbob_dfc Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 A pyramid system is long overdue in Scottish football - the one thing that the late Brooks Mileson got right. A minor point, but one worth pointing out, is that Brooks was actually a strong believer in the fans trusts movements. So much so that he donated a chunk of cash to Dee4life. In that case, and judging by your previous comments, you actually love him! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 I don't like the use of Franchise to talk about Livi as if to imply direct analogy with the Milton Keynes thing. That doesn't really work, principally for the reasons noted above that Scotland doesn't have the same set-up or the same process to allow for natural declines / rises or changes in population. The Inverness merger or the importing of Gretna from a different league are both things that wouldn't have happened down south either, things just work differently up here. That's not to justify (or comment one way or the other) on the legitimacy of the move to Livingston, or indeed Clyde's to Cumbernauld or Clydebank's transformation to Airdrie, it's just to note that the situations aren't the same and for AFC WImbledon fans to be throwing around accusations of franchise football in Scotland is misplaced. The MK Dons thing I do of course agree was a scandal, and I'm still at a loss to understand how the rules were such that it was allowed to go ahead even though both the Football Association and the Football League had turned it down. "Never forget, never forgive", I can go with, it's when it comes to "never stop wanking on about it" that I part company with KtfS. As for AFC Wimbledon - I'm a fan, in the first instance that's largely by accident of their founding chairman being a good mate of mine, but independently of that it's one of the most heartening stories to emerge fromt he world of football in my lifetime. It just shows what fan groups can do when need be, that you don't have to put up forever with unscrupulous owners - they need us more than we need them, and fans can take charge of their own destiny and make a success of it. That's been a big lesson for supporters all across the country, and should be so again for Livingston fans just now. However, that is not to say that Trusts are always the best or only legitimate means of running a football club. Where it happens that's great, I'm always happy to see it and wish any club well in those circumstances, but the smug superiority with which some Trust devotees preach to others about it gets to be a bit annoying sometimes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingfaetheSooth Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 A minor point, but one worth pointing out, is that Brooks was actually a strong believer in the fans trusts movements. So much so that he donated a chunk of cash to Dee4life.In that case, and judging by your previous comments, you actually love him! I think it was Brooks Mileson that just really wanted to be loved. RIP Brooks Mileson - he got a lot wrong but a couple of things right along the way. I do not doubt that Mileson loved football - and that's how he might be best remembered rather than the way he fucked over Gretna. My views on BM has changed/softened over time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) I think it was Brooks Mileson that just really wanted to be loved. RIP Brooks Mileson - he got a lot wrong but a couple of things right along the way. I do not doubt that Mileson loved football - and that's how he might be best remembered rather than the way he fucked over Gretna. My views on BM has changed/softened over time. Mine haven't. He had the cuddly llama-loving, chain smoking, Vlad hugging persona going, but the bottom line is that he was a rich man who bankrolled an operation that was patently not viable. The 'Living a Dream' pish spouted frankly gave me the dry boak. RIP certainly, but.... Edited July 3, 2009 by pozbaird 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingfaetheSooth Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 I don't like the use of Franchise to talk about Livi as if to imply direct analogy with the Milton Keynes thing. That doesn't really work, principally for the reasons noted above that Scotland doesn't have the same set-up or the same process to allow for natural declines / rises or changes in population. The Inverness merger or the importing of Gretna from a different league are both things that wouldn't have happened down south either, things just work differently up here. That's not to justify (or comment one way or the other) on the legitimacy of the move to Livingston, or indeed Clyde's to Cumbernauld or Clydebank's transformation to Airdrie, it's just to note that the situations aren't the same and for AFC WImbledon fans to be throwing around accusations of franchise football in Scotland is misplaced.The MK Dons thing I do of course agree was a scandal, and I'm still at a loss to understand how the rules were such that it was allowed to go ahead even though both the Football Association and the Football League had turned it down. "Never forget, never forgive", I can go with, it's when it comes to "never stop wanking on about it" that I part company with KtfS. As for AFC Wimbledon - I'm a fan, in the first instance that's largely by accident of their founding chairman being a good mate of mine, but independently of that it's one of the most heartening stories to emerge fromt he world of football in my lifetime. It just shows what fan groups can do when need be, that you don't have to put up forever with unscrupulous owners - they need us more than we need them, and fans can take charge of their own destiny and make a success of it. That's been a big lesson for supporters all across the country, and should be so again for Livingston fans just now. However, that is not to say that Trusts are always the best or only legitimate means of running a football club. Where it happens that's great, I'm always happy to see it and wish any club well in those circumstances, but the smug superiority with which some Trust devotees preach to others about it gets to be a bit annoying sometimes. Can't disagree with any of that - even the last sentence of the second paragraph - maybe I shouldn't "w**k on" quite so much, right enough. Hopefully Kris can introduce us at an AFCW game next season - I'll buy the beer and you get the burgers in. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Yeah, sorry, that comment wasn't meant as personally as it looks, now that I read it back. I look forward to that beer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingfaetheSooth Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Mine haven't. He had the cuddly llama-loving, chain smoking, Vlad hugging persona going, but the bottom line is that he was a rich man who bankrolled an operation that was patently not viable. The 'Living a Dream' pish spouted frankly gave me the dry boak. RIP certainly, but.... Indeed - And a lot of good people lost money too - that should be remembered. He's gone though - Michael Jackson will be remembered fondly by many parents in years to come - doesn't mean you would have trusted him with your kids. I certainly wouldn't have trusted Mileson with my football club. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghLivi Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) You do realise that putting up the MK Dons' Chairman, Pete Winkleman as your avatar is quite a strange thing to do considering the events currently unfolding at Livingston FC?Doesn't bother me in the least either - Winky does look a bit like a cross between Grima Wormtongue and the child catcher from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang though. It seems I've underestimated you... After a quick google images search, the resemblance is uncanny Edited July 3, 2009 by EdinburghLivi 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingfaetheSooth Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 It seems I've underestimated you...After a quick google images search, the resemblance is uncanny Separated at birth? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsson. Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Livi are holding a press conference at 4.pm today to introduce John Murphy as the new head coach, also John will outline his plans for the year ahead. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Livi are holding a press conference at 4.pm today to introduce John Murphy as the new headcoach, also John will outline his plans for the year ahead. winding up his affairs in Scotland and heading back to the MLS? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Livi are holding a press conference at 4.pm today to introduce John Murphy as the new headcoach, also John will outline his plans for the year ahead. Didn't they already announce his appointment? You sure this one isn't to announce their latest coaching suspension of duties? He's been "in charge" for about three days or something by now. It's overdue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsson. Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Didn't they already announce his appointment? You sure this one isn't to announce their latest coaching suspension of duties? He's been "in charge" for about three days or something by now. It's overdue. No, cert say's on livi offical site that it is to introduce J.M and his plans for the year ahead. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speckled tangerine Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 As an ex-Thistle fan, i thought i was on for a glory double. Livi finally giving up the ghost and an unpleasant ex-Prime Minister looking decidedly frail. Unfortunately, Thatcher came out of hospital by her own steam rather than a pine box, but as for the former...... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghPar1975 Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Am I missing something? How are Livi able to appoint a new 'head coach' whilct the Hegarty thing is still unsettled. Or is it another cloak and daggers move by Massone as there wasn't a 'head coach' previously? I'm just amazed he took the job. Maybe Massone made him an offer he couldn't refuse! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 No, cert say's on livi offical site that it is to introduce J.M and his plans for the year ahead. It does. Is it just me that thinks this is balmy and ever so slightly insulting to the Livy fans. The club is less than 2 weeks from folding and their Italian stallion is unveiling a head coach and talking about next season?? Every time you think this whole thing couldnt get more bizarre you get proven wrong. I cant wait till tomorrows meeting 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Livi are holding a press conference at 4.pm today to introduce John Murphy as the new headcoach, also John will outline his plans for the year ahead. His plan should be to find a telly and watch Andy Murray. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 His plan should be to find a telly and watch Andy Murray. What is now perfectly clear is that Livingston have absolutely no intention whatsoever of honouring their debts. Be it MacDougall or whoever else that launches a rescue plan, the foundation stone of any and all such plans will be that existing debt not be paid. That is the one and only certainty of the whole thing. livvy being who they are, they will seek to "reach an arrangement" outwith administration so that footballing penalties cannot be put in place. If this is allowed to happen yet again, then the only thing that remains unchanged is that honesty and ethics continue to be absent in all things Livingston. Once more they'll gain a competitive advantage over the clubs who play it by the book. It ain't right, but until the SPL and SFL grow a pair, and stop themselves being the happy hunting grounds for the likes of Livingston, then things will not improve. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) But even if they have no intention of settling smaller existing debts, there are three they simply cannot walk away from- the council, who now seem determined to pursue the matter in the courts, HMRC, and the police. At an estimate that's half a million quid. Has anyone got that lying around to put into a serially failing business like Livingston, and then live with the 99.9 % possibility that they'll never see a penny of it again? I doubt it. Edited to add- there's quite an interesting article in today's Scottish Tory suggesting a mass exodus is needed at Almondvale. The council's rather desperate strategy is to hope a white knight turns up in the next 13 days before the liquidator is appointed. The council are footing the bill for the safety certificate work, in the hope that senior football survives "in some form" at Almondvale. That could mean EOS to be honest- and it's so late in the day that any new Livi wouldn't kick off until 2010-11. Mass Exodus Needed at Almondvale Edited July 3, 2009 by Ivo den Bieman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 There has been talk of a Livingston 2009 being formed to play out of Almondvale in the EOSFL. It should be observed that there would be logistical issues with that* - but even if they could all be overcome, would the council and others really pump money into keeping Almondvale and a new club in operation, to play in the EOS First Division? Surely the overheads would be monumental... (* i.e. - unlike when Gretna 2008 joined, there is no vacancy unless Spartans/Edinburgh City get Livi's SFL place; there is a new rule stating applications must be made by 31st March; the fixture list has been issued; could Livingston 2009 club put any viable squad together in 2-3 weeks; etc.). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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