Livi Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 4 hours ago, ATLIS said: Plenty jumping the gun here, nothing is owed by Livi (yet). Hogarth hasn't been found to be innocent yet either, it's essentially just a delay in the case due to the law firm's ineptitude In legal terms this is not a great look on the pursuer (Livingston). A legal team in general terms act on what they are told/advised they don't dream up cases. Remember Livingston were not defending they were pursuing. its clear Livingston changed their position on more than a few occasion's during this case . It is clear that the judge thought the same and said as much in his judgement. It was that bad there was nothing for Hogarth to defend. He has of course given Livingston the option to go back to the Sheriff Court IF they can put a case together. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 11 hours ago, mozam76 said: Hundreds of thousands might be pushing it. Either way, it may very well be the case that the club feel the need to raise a case against Blackwater. It's them who have made a sows ear of the pleadings, and that is pretty much unforgiveable. Re Hogarth's expenses, that will be another hearing at another date. This case has been going since 2021 when Livingston brought it to court. Senior counsel resources are not cheap. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLIS Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 49 minutes ago, Livi said: Livi are forecasted to make an £800k loss this year? wondered who is paying for the extra costs associated with such activity. before people jump in. I think it's a great initiative to. Only if it's affordable though? New owner has already publicly stated he's covering all losses made this year, so that point at least seems sorted 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLIS Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 40 minutes ago, Livi said: In legal terms this is not a great look on the pursuer (Livingston). A legal team in general terms act on what they are told/advised they don't dream up cases. Remember Livingston were not defending they were pursuing. its clear Livingston changed their position on more than a few occasion's during this case . It is clear that the judge thought the same and said as much in his judgement. It was that bad there was nothing for Hogarth to defend. He has of course given Livingston the option to go back to the Sheriff Court IF they can put a case together. IMO I reckon this just goes back to the lesser court and the original sums are paid back. The extra sums for defrauding the club etc, I have little faith the club can sufficiently pursue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozam76 Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 37 minutes ago, Livi said: In legal terms this is not a great look on the pursuer (Livingston). A legal team in general terms act on what they are told/advised they don't dream up cases. Remember Livingston were not defending they were pursuing. its clear Livingston changed their position on more than a few occasion's during this case . It is clear that the judge thought the same and said as much in his judgement. It was that bad there was nothing for Hogarth to defend. He has of course given Livingston the option to go back to the Sheriff Court IF they can put a case together. You’re being more than a bit disingenuous here. It is Livingston’s case, but it’s the responsibility of the lawyers to actually present that case, both to the opponents and to the Sheriff/Judge who it goes before. As I said earlier, your client can present you with a bag of bolts; it’s incumbent on their lawyer to actually submit pleadings (and adjust accordingly) in a way that at least makes sense. In my view, the fact that Baird has said that the pleadings were disjointed, lacking detail, etc is pretty shocking on behalf of Livingston’s legal team. 35 minutes ago, Livi said: This case has been going since 2021 when Livingston brought it to court. Senior counsel resources are not cheap. Time, of course, isn’t the only factor in cost. It’s also the amount of work carried out during that time. Still, I’m obliged to you for confirming that legal representation at that level isn’t cheap. Here was me thinking you could get it from the middle of Lidl. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghLivi Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 4 hours ago, mozam76 said: I am left struggling to work out why we've had a one man band criminal law firm handling this. Agreed. Firstly due to the seriousness of the allegations and secondly the fact we are a Scottish Premiership club. Hiring a reputable law firm should be a no brainer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durnford Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 1 hour ago, Livi said: Livi are forecasted to make an £800k loss this year? wondered who is paying for the extra costs associated with such activity. before people jump in. I think it's a great initiative to. Only if it's affordable though? Effectively we're giving away tickets that wouldn't have been sold otherwise. There is the cost of additional stewarding but that could be countered (hopefully) by additional earning for catering etc. Unfortunately our biggest problem with free ticket give away games is that, for some reason, the team historically under-performs on that day. The hope is obviously if you can get kids attending games again then they will want to keep coming but thats unlikely to happen if you end up playing like you cant be ar5ed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, ATLIS said: 2,000 free tickets for the Dundee home game being given away again. Good to see this initiative is being kept up, especially under new ownership Yes, this is great. I wonder how many under 10s or 12s we actually get normally. If not that many then there’s perhaps little loss in gate receipts vs just letting them in for free (how many need to buy a season ticket the year after to fully offset, etc.). I imagine some would buy a coke and a Mars bar so would immediately offset lost gate receipts to some extent. Not sure what staffing costs there are associated with pie stand+security but I feel like almost ANY initiative to get kids through the door during our ‘purple patch’ has to be considered a good investment by the club. (And let’s be honest, 2k tickets taken up still won’t translate to 2k extra in through the door, based on previous offers). Edited October 16, 2023 by crispy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 9 minutes ago, Durnford said: Effectively we're giving away tickets that wouldn't have been sold otherwise. There is the cost of additional stewarding but that could be countered (hopefully) by additional earning for catering etc. Unfortunately our biggest problem with free ticket give away games is that, for some reason, the team historically under-performs on that day. The hope is obviously if you can get kids attending games again then they will want to keep coming but thats unlikely to happen if you end up playing like you cant be ar5ed. Your post appeared while I was typing but looks like we are on the same page - equally lost? Haha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiviLion Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 Tend to see a lot of folk walking around with bags from the club shop when we give away the free tickets, so that along with the catering probably negates any loss we'd make from it; I doubt we'd be doing it so often if it was hurting us. Hopefully some freebies being sent up to Dundee as well, but I reckon that would happen closer to the game after a good chunk have already been sold. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 48 minutes ago, mozam76 said: You’re being more than a bit disingenuous here. It is Livingston’s case, but it’s the responsibility of the lawyers to actually present that case, both to the opponents and to the Sheriff/Judge who it goes before. As I said earlier, your client can present you with a bag of bolts; it’s incumbent on their lawyer to actually submit pleadings (and adjust accordingly) in a way that at least makes sense. In my view, the fact that Baird has said that the pleadings were disjointed, lacking detail, etc is pretty shocking on behalf of Livingston’s legal team. Time, of course, isn’t the only factor in cost. It’s also the amount of work carried out during that time. Still, I’m obliged to you for confirming that legal representation at that level isn’t cheap. Here was me thinking you could get it from the middle of Lidl. Sorry you think i am being disingenuous. The club changed its position on the 74k, 50k and 600k plus it was seeking to recover that was not the legal team. Whats a legal team supposed to do if the purser changes its mind through a case. They can only knit a good case if they have the clear facts Given the amount of changes to the Livingston case there would be a fair amount of legal work needed. It was far from a simple case being pit forward. here's me surprised you can't get legal counsel in Lidl middle aisle's 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 50 minutes ago, EdinburghLivi said: Agreed. Firstly due to the seriousness of the allegations and secondly the fact we are a Scottish Premiership club. Hiring a reputable law firm should be a no brainer. Agreed 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVIFOREVER Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 I see Steven Bradley's been called up to Scotland's U21 squad for their game against Malta tomorrow, hope he gets a game. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLIS Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 16 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said: I see Steven Bradley's been called up to Scotland's U21 squad for their game against Malta tomorrow, hope he gets a game. Mental that Hibs just let him walk across the road to us for free. Thanks again Lee Johnson 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kircer bairn Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 On 16/10/2023 at 20:12, ATLIS said: 2,000 free tickets for the Dundee home game being given away again. Good to see this initiative is being kept up, especially under new ownership Wow - will that only leave 7500 empty seats - asking for a friend -3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLIS Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 10 minutes ago, Kircer bairn said: Wow - will that only leave 7500 empty seats - asking for a friend Is that friend also playing in the seaside leagues? Enjoy Stirling Albion away ffs 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi La Vida Loca Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 Giving out free tickets is a great initiative. It's how I became a Livi fan however we have been pretty average on the day of the giveaway when we've done it recently. It's good to see demand for it but I'd love to know how we decide who to give them to as every time it's went from initial 2000 and upped to 4000 then on the day your lucky if 1000 / 1500 actually turn up and use the Tickets so clearly people are asking for too many. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dav nan Gael Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 On 17/10/2023 at 20:28, Kircer bairn said: Wow - will that only leave 7500 empty seats - asking for a friend Falkirk fan having a crowd w**k,nothing new there then. That crowd think they're on a par with Man U when it comes tae support. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozam76 Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 56 minutes ago, Livi La Vida Loca said: It's good to see demand for it but I'd love to know how we decide who to give them to as every time it's went from initial 2000 and upped to 4000 then on the day your lucky if 1000 / 1500 actually turn up and use the Tickets so clearly people are asking for too many. So I'd imagine that most of the tickets are given to the under age football teams in the county, i.e Murieston, East Calder, etc. You'll probably find that those clubs will ask for enough tickets to cover all of the players (cannae offer to one without offering to all etc.). There will be kids in those set ups who have no interest in Livi, and maybe even some with no interest in football at all. I know it's not really the sentiment that you intended, but in my opinion if we do get approximately 1,000+ extra young punters through the gates through this (or indeed any) initiative, then we will indeed be lucky. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi La Vida Loca Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 6 minutes ago, mozam76 said: I know it's not really the sentiment that you intended, but in my opinion if we do get approximately 1,000+ extra young punters through the gates through this (or indeed any) initiative, then we will indeed be lucky. Yeah I'm in no way having a go at the initiative as I'm very happy that we're doing it as I myself got free tickets while at school and kept going after. Any extra fans through the gates is a bonus it's just a shame it's not been well used in recent years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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