Skinheed Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Un-fucking-believable. Livi fans have learned nothing NOTHING from this whole fiasco. It has been everyone else's incompetence that has led poor Livi to this point. West Lothian must have some mind-altering drugs in the water supply for them to actually believe the pish they are spouting.I genuinely had sympathy for Livi right up until today. Now, I hope the earth opens up and swallows them whole, then seals over again, taking all traces of Almondvale and those fucktards Rankine and McDougall with it. For the sake of putting this into perspective, it may well be prudent to compile an alphabetical list of whose fault Livi fans think this whole sordid clusterfuck is. I'll give a quick A-Z, but there are many, many more missing. Please feel free to add to it as you see fit. Airdrie United Blobby Hunter Cowdenbeath Duncan Freemason Everybodyfuckingelse Flynn GhostofJimMorton HibeeJibee Italians Jim Ballantyne Kenny Black Longmuir Massone Notfuckingus Organized Vote-Fixing Press Corps Quotes Attributed to Longmuir/Ballantyne/Black et al Reality SFL The Sixteen Clubs Who Voted To Uphold The Unfair Penalty On Us Unsympathetic Fans of Other Clubs VikingTON West Lothian Council X-Rays From Outer Space Yoss Zombies ..Thats quite good.. for somebody peering through holes in a sheet 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Silverheels Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Gordon McDougall upon hearing that the SFL had upheld Livingston's relegation to the Third Division. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 (edited) May be useful to point out the technical detail behind the new avenue of appeal Livi hade made. Who will hear this appeal to the SFA? The appeal will be heard by the Appeals Committee, set out in rule 133 (and in particular 133.1) of the SFA Articles of Association. The membership of the SFA Appeals Committee is as follows: Donnie McIntyre (Chairman + Casting vote) (SFL, formerly Dumbarton FC?) Derrick Brown (Vice-Chairman) (Fifeshire FA, formerly East Fife FC?) Steven Brown (Forfarshire FA & St Johnstone FC) Colin Holden (South of Scotland FL & Threave Rovers FC) Finlay Noble (Highland FL & Fraserburgh FC) Eric Riley (Glasgow FA & Celtic FC) Martin Ritchie (Stirlingshire FA & Falkirk FC) However, the SFA Articles of Association appear to rule out Donnie McIntyre from participating. When will the appeal be heard? Oddly, no set timescale appears to be in place in the rules - I'd presume as soon as is practical. On what grounds is the appeal heard? There are no set grounds: Livingston must simply "state fully in writing the ground for appeal". So are Livi in First Division until the appeal is concluded? Not necessarily. Under the portion I quote below, the punishment is normally set aside - but the SFL can ask for the punishment to be applied until the appeal is upheld/dismissed. They have to do this within 1 working day of being notified of the appeal. If they do that, the Chairman of the Appeals Committee (Donnie McIntyre, SFL ) & the Secretary (??) decide if to uphold it or not. Once an appeal has been validly submitted to the Secretary, the decision against which the appeal is submitted shall be set aside pending the hearing of the appeal unless the interests of justice dictate that the decision should be given effect. The original decision making body shall be entitled to make representations to the Secretary opposing such a setting aside of the decision. Such representation must be lodged in writing with the Secretary within 1 working day of the Secretary’s receipt of the appeal submission. The representations shall be considered by the Secretary and the Chairman of the Appeals Committee, whose decision thereon shall be final and binding. In the absence of either the Secretary and/or the Chairman of the Appeals Committee, the President and/or the First Vice-President shall be entitled to act as alternates in considering the representations. So can Livi take it to court if they lose the SFA appeal? Yes, of course - but in doing so they would breach the conditions of their appeal and SFA rules: The Association’s structure for the hearing of appeals is as set out in this Article. The following provisions and procedures provide a means for the resolution of differences or questions arising from the observance and implementation of the Association’s Articles, rules and decisions and the fact of membership of the Association shall constitute an agreement by a member that it, or any body or person interested through such member, shall submit all such differences or questions to the jurisdiction of the Association and shall not be permitted to take such differences or questions to a court of law. Edited August 13, 2009 by HibeeJibee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 (edited) Yes the sfl can take what action they see fit but the purpose of an appeal is to have the the decision looked at again by a higher body and in this case the higher body is the SFA. I think that rule would allow the Sfa to reduce the punishment Past precedent sees SFA do this... if the body involved [sFL] broke it's own rules in handling the process, or broke SFA rules, or if the club didn't break any SFL or SFL rules - then the appeal is upheld. / If the appeal itself is not upheld, but the SFA believe the punishment was over-severe, they pass it back to the body involved [sFL]. It is unheard of for SFA to change the punishment. Edited August 13, 2009 by HibeeJibee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danlichtie Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 f**k off Livi - take your relegation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowhereman Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 The rule that the SFL invoked effectively gives them carte blanche to do what they want with teams that are in breach of it. For the SFA to turn round and say that Livi deserve a lesser punishment would be tantamount to ripping up the SFL rule book and could have serious repercussions for every organisation affiliated with them. No it wouldn't. You really don't know how these things work do you ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantoms-livi-lass Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Un-fucking-believable. Livi fans have learned nothing NOTHING from this whole fiasco. It has been everyone else's incompetence that has led poor Livi to this point. West Lothian must have some mind-altering drugs in the water supply for them to actually believe the pish they are spouting.I genuinely had sympathy for Livi right up until today. Now, I hope the earth opens up and swallows them whole, then seals over again, taking all traces of Almondvale and those fucktards Rankine and McDougall with it. For the sake of putting this into perspective, it may well be prudent to compile an alphabetical list of whose fault Livi fans think this whole sordid clusterfuck is. I'll give a quick A-Z, but there are many, many more missing. Please feel free to add to it as you see fit. Airdrie United Blobby Hunter Cowdenbeath Duncan Freemason Everybodyfuckingelse Flynn GhostofJimMorton HibeeJibee Italians Jim Ballantyne Kingfaethesooth Longmuir Massone Notfuckingus Organized Vote-Fixing Press Corps Quotes Attributed to Longmuir/Ballantyne/Black et al Reality SFL The Sixteen Clubs Who Voted To Uphold The Unfair Penalty On Us Unsympathetic Fans of Other Clubs VikingTON West Lothian Council X-Rays From Outer Space Yoss Zombies There, that is it perfect now! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowhereman Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Past precedent sees SFA do this... if the body involved [sFL] broke it's own rules in handling the process, or broke SFA rules, or if the club didn't break any SFL or SFL rules - then the appeal is upheld. / If the appeal itself is not upheld, but the SFA believe the punishment was over-severe, they pass it back to the body involved [sFL]. It is unheard of for SFA to change the punishment. You yourself said earlier in the thread that precedents only come about through decisions being made that havnt been made before. And if the SFA did hand it back to the sfl that would surely be with a view to the sfl itself changing the punishment 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 No it wouldn't. You really don't know how these things work do you ? It would be highly unusual for SFA to uphold the conviction but themselves alter the sanction, in a case like this (Governing Body v Club). Normally SFA just pass it back to the governing body... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 No it wouldn't. Of course it would. If the SFA decide to change Livi's sanction, it would be undermining one of the SFL's rules. In turn, that means none of the rules are safe from SFA intervention. You really don't know how these things work do you ? I seem to understand them a lot better than you do. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Silverheels Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 There, that is it perfect now! Might need to add your name to the list as well, you being a P&B collaborator! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Un-fucking-believable. Livi fans have learned nothing NOTHING from this whole fiasco. It has been everyone else's incompetence that has led poor Livi to this point. West Lothian must have some mind-altering drugs in the water supply for them to actually believe the pish they are spouting.I genuinely had sympathy for Livi right up until today. Now, I hope the earth opens up and swallows them whole, then seals over again, taking all traces of Almondvale and those fucktards Rankine and McDougall with it. For the sake of putting this into perspective, it may well be prudent to compile an alphabetical list of whose fault Livi fans think this whole sordid clusterfuck is. I'll give a quick A-Z, but there are many, many more missing. Please feel free to add to it as you see fit. Airdrie United Blobby Hunter Cowdenbeath Duncan Freemason Everybodyfuckingelse Flynn GhostofJimMorton HibeeJibee Italians Jim Ballantyne Kenny Black Longmuir Massone Notfuckingus Organized Vote-Fixing Press Corps Quotes Attributed to Longmuir/Ballantyne/Black et al Reality SFL The Sixteen Clubs Who Voted To Uphold The Unfair Penalty On Us Unsympathetic Fans of Other Clubs VikingTON West Lothian Council X-Rays From Outer Space Yoss Zombies A very good post. I think Airdrie and Cowdenbeath football clubs and supporters have behaved with remarkable leniency, patience and tolerance in this whole scandal. The same cannot be said of Livingston FC. I have no doubt Livingston will lose this retarded appeal, but if by some reason they don't, I hope Airdrie and Cowdenbeath as well as Arbroath and Ross County team up and kill Livingston in the court of law. On what basis I have no idea, but there is only one team who have broken any regulation here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 You yourself said earlier in the thread that precedents only come about through decisions being made that havnt been made before.And if the SFA did hand it back to the sfl that would surely be with a view to the sfl itself changing the punishment True but what is uniquely revolutionary about this case? / No, they normally just 'send it back'... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantoms-livi-lass Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Might need to add your name to the list as well, you being a P&B collaborator! Yes add me to your list, I'd like that very much. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrshireTon Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Another appeal??????? FFS - this thread is going to run to at least 700 pages by next Thursday. So if the SFA do nothing (or reject the apeal) who do Livi appeal to next? And who after that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The ghost of Jim Morton Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Who will hear this appeal to the SFA? The appeal will be heard by the Appeals Committee, set out in rule 133 (and in particular 133.1) of the SFA Articles of Association. The membership of the SFA Appeals Committee is as follows: Donnie McIntyre (Chairman + Casting vote) (SFL, formerly Dumbarton FC?) Derrick Brown (Vice-Chairman) (Fifeshire FA, formerly East Fife FC?) Steven Brown (Forfarshire FA & St Johnstone FC) Colin Holden (South of Scotland FL & Threave Rovers FC) Finlay Noble (Highland FL & Fraserburgh FC) Eric Riley (Glasgow FA & Celtic FC) Martin Ritchie (Stirlingshire FA & Falkirk FC) Oh Goody. Geoffs son and St.Johnstone director Stevie Broon is on the committee.. Well that's one person who will have not a drop of fucking sympathy for those crooked bastards.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantoms-livi-lass Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Another appeal???????FFS - this thread is going to run to at least 700 pages by next Thursday. So if the SFA do nothing (or reject the apeal) who do Livi appeal to next? And who after that? Don't ask! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinheed Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Yes add me to your list, I'd like that very much. You've no seen his list. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantoms-livi-lass Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Who will hear this appeal to the SFA?The appeal will be heard by the Appeals Committee, set out in rule 133 (and in particular 133.1) of the SFA Articles of Association. The membership of the SFA Appeals Committee is as follows: Donnie McIntyre (Chairman + Casting vote) (SFL, formerly Dumbarton FC?) Derrick Brown (Vice-Chairman) (Fifeshire FA, formerly East Fife FC?) Steven Brown (Forfarshire FA & St Johnstone FC) Colin Holden (South of Scotland FL & Threave Rovers FC) Finlay Noble (Highland FL & Fraserburgh FC) Eric Riley (Glasgow FA & Celtic FC) Martin Ritchie (Stirlingshire FA & Falkirk FC) Oh Goody. Geoffs son and St.Johnstone director Stevie Broon is on the committee.. Well that's one person who will have not a drop of fucking sympathy for those crooked bastards.. I'm not appealing for you now Ghostie. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 There's a "Fifeshire" FA?! And I thought "Forfarshire" was bad 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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