May 2011 Election

[H_B]

Or Land of Hope and Glory.

Maybe even better actually...

I'd love to go along and see it one year. Wave my Union flag with pride.

Of course, there may not be many years left, given the cold, deadness of the Union.

[Pink Freud]

strictly speaking the English cricket team is a British Commonwealth team. We have two South Africans at present (continuing a long tradition of South Africans, including the Smith Brothers, Allan Lamb, Robin Jackman etc etc), and an Irishman (Morgan); and in the past we have had folk of Australian (the absolutely dreadful Martin McCague), Zimbabwean (Hick) and Caribbean origin playing for the side (Norman Cowans).

Mike Denness, Dougie Brown and, fleetingly, Gavin Hamilton, have all represented England since the 70s being of Scots origin, as have innumerable Welshmen.

It's weird in that regard, cricket. I have followed the England team closely since the first series I can remember (the 1981 Ashes- what a start). The Scotland team is light years behind and I doubt will ever play test cricket as an independent nation. The best Scots will continue to represent England at test level, whilst the national team will continue to operate at roughly the level of a minor county.

It's really not a problem and would struggle to see why Scots fans following England at cricket would be called into question. Of course I like to see the Saltires do well, but I just can;t get so excited by them.

OOoft. What a start indeed.

Yeah, I feel much the same. I went to the Oval a couple of years ago to see Scotland vs Surrey (an easy win for Surrey sadly, though not a drubbing).

THe lovely thing about supporting England at cricket is it shows just how broadminded the British can be. We don;t need permission to support a team because of where we come from.

I can't see Montenegrans being anything like as sympathetic.

[xbl]

I see that more apt British examples are being used. Invoking anglocentric colonialism from the past, wonderful stuff!

According to you, the European golf team that takes part in the Ryder Cup is evidence of a European identity. With me so far? Good.

Now, if one year that team doesn't contain a Scot, I would imagine that you would have little problem in still hoping they win, correct? And in fact, if it never contaqined a Scot, it wouldn't matter to you, because your identity is European, correct?

So. At least three Scots in my lifetime that I can remember have played for England at cricket. THe rest have been English and Welsh, and first generation immigrants. My identity is British. Ergo, I am happy to support England at cricket, because that is my identity. Please keep your whiny chippyness to yourself in this regard. You just end up looking daft.

However, your example falls down because the European golf team is European. Again, if it was a "British Cricket Board", then you'd have a point, but it is explicitly the England cricket team, run by the England and Wales Cricket board. Unless of course you see England and Britain as interchangeable? But your example is weak, as demonstrated by your lazy, craven insults.

Yeah, I feel much the same. I went to the Oval a couple of years ago to see Scotland vs Surrey (an easy win for Surrey sadly, though not a drubbing).

THe lovely thing about supporting England at cricket is it shows just how broadminded the British can be. We don;t need permission to support a team because of where we come from.

Eh? I back Sri Lanka at cricket. I've been to Dambulla to watch Sri Lanka versus Pakistan when I lived there. The lovely thing about supporting Sri Lanka at cricket is it shows just how broadminded the Scots can be. We don't need permission to support a team because of where we come from. Or is that parochial of me?

[H_B]

but it is explicitly the England cricket team, run by the England and Wales Cricket board.

Which Scottish people qualify to play for.

[xbl]

Which Scottish people qualify to play for.

So is is "chippy" of me to not support them?

[H_B]

So is is "chippy" of me to not support them?

Not at all. You can support who you like.

I am an avowed fan of Roger Federer, who I will always support against anyone, whether British or not.

[Reynard]

strictly speaking the English cricket team is a British Commonwealth team. We have two South Africans at present (continuing a long tradition of South Africans, including the Smith Brothers, Allan Lamb, Robin Jackman etc etc), and an Irishman (Morgan); and in the past we have had folk of Australian (the absolutely dreadful Martin McCague), Zimbabwean (Hick) and Caribbean origin playing for the side (Norman Cowans).

Mike Denness, Dougie Brown and, fleetingly, Gavin Hamilton, have all represented England since the 70s being of Scots origin, as have innumerable Welshmen.

It's weird in that regard, cricket. I have followed the England team closely since the first series I can remember (the 1981 Ashes- what a start). The Scotland team is light years behind and I doubt will ever play test cricket as an independent nation. The best Scots will continue to represent England at test level, whilst the national team will continue to operate at roughly the level of a minor county.

It's really not a problem and would struggle to see why Scots fans following England at cricket would be called into question. Of course I like to see the Saltires do well, but I just can;t get so excited by them.

The best Scotland could ever really hope for is maybe to end up having some sort of outfit at county standard and having the national side pretty much doing what it's doing now. I doubt it will ever happen although things have changed a lot even in the past thirty years. The sport has a pretty decent set up and structure up here but it will never operate at test level, no chance. And I really wouldnt want it to either, I like the idea of our best players playing for England like they have done in the past and will do in the future.

It's a great sport, and it's the only one I can sit watching for hours on end. I have always preferred it over football.

[Ivo den Bieman]

Indeed, cricket was my first love, too, and the only sport I was ever actually any good at. I usually catch a couple of county games a season and would just as happily watch Bangladesh-Zimbabwe on the telly, as I have been enjoying the Ashes.

The SCU does a good job, but the Saltires- playing ODIs to a good standard, regularly getting to world cups, playing in the county one day competitions and their four day cricket against the likes of Holland, Ireland and Namibia- is as good as its going to get. It's still a largely amateur sport up here, beyond the top two dozen or so players, hence the infrastructure to bid seriously for test status does not exist. It's hard to see that changing, it's also hard to see the best Scots players doing anything other than paly county cricket and for England if they are good enough.

[Reynard]

Indeed, cricket was my first love, too, and the only sport I was ever actually any good at. I usually catch a couple of county games a season and would just as happily watch Bangladesh-Zimbabwe on the telly, as I have been enjoying the Ashes.

The SCU does a good job, but the Saltires- playing ODIs to a good standard, regularly getting to world cups, playing in the county one day competitions and their four day cricket against the likes of Holland, Ireland and Namibia- is as good as its going to get. It's still a largely amateur sport up here, beyond the top two dozen or so players, hence the infrastructure to bid seriously for test status does not exist. It's hard to see that changing, it's also hard to see the best Scots players doing anything other than paly county cricket and for England if they are good enough.

Yeah it was my main sport too until I discovered chicks and beer and rock n roll.

Any Scots pros back then were at county sides. I think the chap Hardie who opened the batting at Essex with Gooch was the highest profile one at that time. There were probably others but nobody really bothered mentioning it anyway. Its never been seen as a big deal.

[Ivo den Bieman]

Dallas Moir played for Derbyshire around that time, too, can't remember any others.

I was coached by Brian Hardie one summertime, as a youngster. Also had coaching from Ian Philip and Omar Henry. I became diabetic aged 16 which was a crucial summer, and things kind of went into a tailspin after that. Had I stuck at it rather than let it drift away I could have been a decent club cricketer in Scotland, but other than a few games for the uni seconds, and some fairly desultory club cricket in London, that was that for me. I regret not trying a bit harder there.

[Reynard]

Dallas Moir played for Derbyshire around that time, too, can't remember any others.

I was coached by Brian Hardie one summertime, as a youngster. Also had coaching from Ian Philip and Omar Henry. I became diabetic aged 16 which was a crucial summer, and things kind of went into a tailspin after that. Had I stuck at it rather than let it drift away I could have been a decent club cricketer in Scotland, but other than a few games for the uni seconds, and some fairly desultory club cricket in London, that was that for me. I regret not trying a bit harder there.

Yeah I played down at Ayr and got hauled up for net sessions with Imran and Wasim along with others. Omar Henry was a lovely guy. And as we shared a surname the jokes flew around about him being my dad

Our pro at that time was Salahuddin who coached me superbly well, he was Indian but became a selector for the Pakistanis for some reason?. I was a bowler and like you at the exact same age I had to chuck playing because I broke my pelvis doing the high jump for Scottish Schools at Meadowbank. I leapt like a salmon and missed the fucking mat. So that was my cricketing year finished with and I never went back. I wish I had stayed playing though as I loved it.

[OldWasp]

I think Dougie Brown has played for Scotland, England and Zimbabwe - and er Clackmannanshire...

[Ivo den Bieman]

Yeah I played down at Ayr and got hauled up for net sessions with Imran and Wasim along with others. Omar Henry was a lovely guy. And as we shared a surname the jokes flew around about him being my dad

Our pro at that time was Salahuddin who coached me superbly well, he was Indian but became a selector for the Pakistanis for some reason?. I was a bowler and like you at the exact same age I had to chuck playing because I broke my pelvis doing the high jump for Scottish Schools at Meadowbank. I leapt like a salmon and missed the fucking mat. So that was my cricketing year finished with and I never went back. I wish I had stayed playing though as I loved it.

yeh I was a bowler too. Quite quick up to the age of about 15 then stopped growing just as everyone else started. Hence I moved from being Richard Hadlee to Zimbabwe's second change medium pacer in the space of about 18 months. Hadlee was my role model, and I used to love watching him play.

Omar Henry was a great guy. Tough, but very encouraging. He'd gone by the time diabetes caught up with me, when I played.

[Ivo den Bieman]

I think Dougie Brown has played for Scotland, England and Zimbabwe - and er Clackmannanshire...

Yes he played ODIs but not tests for England. He played for Namibia (not Zim) when they entered a team in South African state cricket one day competitions- much the same as the Scots play limited overs against the English counties. he was also a very good county pro at Warwickshire, for many seasons.

He's an Alloa fan, from memory.

[Ad Lib]

yeh I was a bowler too. Quite quick up to the age of about 15 then stopped growing just as everyone else started. Hence I moved from being Richard Hadlee to Zimbabwe's second change medium pacer in the space of about 18 months. Hadlee was my role model, and I used to love watching him play.

I could never have cut it as a fast bowler even at Grades level. Passable off-breaks with an outswinging or scrambled seam arm-ball was about the limit of my bowling capabilities...

[Reynard]

yeh I was a bowler too. Quite quick up to the age of about 15 then stopped growing just as everyone else started. Hence I moved from being Richard Hadlee to Zimbabwe's second change medium pacer in the space of about 18 months. Hadlee was my role model, and I used to love watching him play.

Omar Henry was a great guy. Tough, but very encouraging. He'd gone by the time diabetes caught up with me, when I played.

I opened the bowling for Ayr 2nd 11 when I was 15. I was pretty quick and I am six foot four which helped things along. I wanted to be Michael Holding, but unfortunately I was never that graceful

My uncle used to get me tickets for the Trent Bridge tests because he was Gowers doctor and I got to meet Hadlee, Randall and Clive Rice when I was a young kid too at a random county match. Clive Rice would have had a fantastic test career if he had been allowed to play in his prime, and Randall was a bit of a hero to me growing up.

I was a proper number 11 batsman though. Absolutely shite, although I did average quite high a couple of seasons with a series of scores like 3 not out.

Omar was brilliant at coaching the kids, he had patience galore with them and was well liked.

[Ivo den Bieman]

Yep Omar was a good guy. It was a really great moment when he played in SA's first test since the end of apartheid.

I was a little better than 11- usually no 9 or no. 10- but I only had a forward defensive, leg glance and pull shot. For some reason I just couldn't play offside shots. My biggest triumph was 12 not out one game, but I was out for a duck more often than not.

I was more of a Joel Garner than a Holding man- Garner's height must have been absolutely terrifying to have coped with. Mind you, I remember reading the diary of a seasoned county pro, who stated that the most terifying experience ever was opening the batting on a damp, green wicket at Heanor with Michael Holding running in from the member's end. *Gulp*

Other than Hadlee and Garner, I also had a lot of time for Terry Alderman (a much under-rated bowler in a largely crap Aussie side- at least til '89), Courtney Walsh, Imran, Wasim Akram and, latterly, Heath Streak.

[Reynard]

Yep Omar was a good guy. It was a really great moment when he played in SA's first test since the end of apartheid.

I was a little better than 11- usually no 9 or no. 10- but I only had a forward defensive, leg glance and pull shot. For some reason I just couldn't play offside shots. My biggest triumph was 12 not out one game, but I was out for a duck more often than not.

I was more of a Joel Garner than a Holding man- Garner's height must have been absolutely terrifying to have coped with. Mind you, I remember reading the diary of a seasoned county pro, who stated that the most terifying experience ever was opening the batting on a damp, green wicket at Heanor with Michael Holding running in from the member's end. *Gulp*

Other than Hadlee and Garner, I also had a lot of time for Terry Alderman (a much under-rated bowler in a largely crap Aussie side- at least til '89), Courtney Walsh, Imran, Wasim Akram and, latterly, Heath Streak.

It must have been fun batting against the Windies back in the day.

Risk your life seeing off the new ball attack of Holding and Marshall only to see respite coming in the shape of nine foot tall Joel who bounces it at chin height off a full length Alderman liked bowling in England, it suited him. Imran was another bowler who was elegant like Holding. Beautiful bowling action. You'll have seen this clip but its always worth a look.

[kiwififer]

God it's like it's Christmas Day 1914 in no-man's-land!

[Ad Lib]

God it's like it's Christmas Day 1914 in no-man's-land!

I can assure you being hit with a cricket ball is much more painful than that.

I once made the mistake of going in to bat without a box. Once. You simply do not make that mistake again.