Guest Caractacus Potts Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 8 minutes ago, AGPar said: We had two players on loan from the very same club last season. Partick Thistle also had one. They were pretty much carried to the title by the impact of a loan player. You're simply using Mochrie to suit your argument, which doesn't stack up. Doesn’t make sense either, if we wanted him and that was a prerequisite then sure we could have came to an arrangement. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gav-ffc Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 10 hours ago, AGPar said: We had two players on loan from the very same club last season. Partick Thistle also had one. They were pretty much carried to the title by the impact of a loan player. You're simply using Mochrie to suit your argument, which doesn't stack up. Most not all. Mochrie had a bigger impact on the league than the two we got that’s for sure. Do I think we should do better in the loan market? Yes I do but I’m sure most clubs say the same thing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passionate Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 12 hours ago, ShaggerG said: Where did I say I was happy with Ompreon and Wilson? Heard at the game last night Henderson was offered to Edinburgh City, Falkirk, Allo a and Queens Park. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 On 02/09/2021 at 12:16, Proudtobeabairn said: 2. We have absolutely no idea why Reilly went to Morton. A chance to score goals in the championship perhaps/old connections/closer to home? Us not affording the wages is pure speculation. Another case of everyone working themselves up about something that probably isn't even true (like the Arbroath debacle) Yeah, I think the Championship is the crux of it. There's no doubt that when you're talking about permanent signings Falkirk are easily capable of outbidding the lower paying Championship clubs like Morton & Queen of the South - just look at the number of ex-players of those sides you've had in League One for evidence - but when it comes to a loan deal, both the player and their parent club are going to want a move to the highest level possible, whether it's to build fitness after a long term injury or develop a young player. If Reilly believes he can still make it as a top flight player with Livingston, scoring 10 goals in the Championship is going to do more to earn him another chance than scoring 20 in League One. Even if Jack Hamilton had spent the first half of last season with Falkirk rather than East Fife, there's every chance Livingston would still have recalled him in January to send him to Arbroath and test him at a higher level ahead of giving him Premiership games this season. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebobsboy Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 14 hours ago, Shadwell Dog said: Henderson will get more goals for alloa than either of them get for us this season. He'll only need to score once then because I don't think those two will score a league goal. Christ they can't even get into a goalscoring position. Ompreon has had one decent chance in all the games I've saw him and he hit the keeper with it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Dufresne Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 13 minutes ago, ebobsboy said: He'll only need to score once then because I don't think those two will score a league goal. Christ they can't even get into a goalscoring position. Ompreon has had one decent chance in all the games I've saw him and he hit the keeper with it. That was his 1st touch as well was it not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said: Yeah, I think the Championship is the crux of it. There's no doubt that when you're talking about permanent signings Falkirk are easily capable of outbidding the lower paying Championship clubs like Morton & Queen of the South - just look at the number of ex-players of those sides you've had in League One for evidence - but when it comes to a loan deal, both the player and their parent club are going to want a move to the highest level possible, whether it's to build fitness after a long term injury or develop a young player. If Reilly believes he can still make it as a top flight player with Livingston, scoring 10 goals in the Championship is going to do more to earn him another chance than scoring 20 in League One. Even if Jack Hamilton had spent the first half of last season with Falkirk rather than East Fife, there's every chance Livingston would still have recalled him in January to send him to Arbroath and test him at a higher level ahead of giving him Premiership games this season. Livingston are only interested in how much you're willing to pay of a guys wages so they can bring someone else in and nothing else. Morton agreed to pay Reilly's in full and we baulked at that. Last season Arbroath got their 500k and could afford to pay more of Hamilton's wages than east Fife so he was off to Arbroath in the window. Edited September 4, 2021 by Shadwell Dog 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairn in Exile Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 24 minutes ago, ebobsboy said: He'll only need to score once then because I don't think those two will score a league goal. Christ they can't even get into a goalscoring position. Ompreon has had one decent chance in all the games I've saw him and he hit the keeper with it. Assuming that all the fringe players get a run out today I'm guessing that Wilson and Ompreon will get 45 minutes each to show us what they can't do (did you see what I did there?). Maybe then Sheerin will finally admit that he's cocked up and get them to f*ck. By the way, if you rearrange the letters in Samuel Ompreon and Jaime Wilson you get "one no use pair o wallies". OK, you've got jmmm left over but who's counting? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 Just now, DundeeUnited9999 said: Dosnt seem to be getting games at Raith That'll be because we haven't had a game in the last 3 weeks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 (edited) Fotheringham did virtually nothing last season. Was like a wee boy lost most of the time so Raith are welcome to keep him. Edited September 4, 2021 by Shadwell Dog 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGPar Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 3 hours ago, gav-ffc said: Most not all. Mochrie had a bigger impact on the league than the two we got that’s for sure. Do I think we should do better in the loan market? Yes I do but I’m sure most clubs say the same thing. You literally quoted Mochrie to back up your argument, even though we've clearly established that Dundee United seem perfectly willing to loan young players to full-time clubs, even the worst of those flailing around in League 1. Livingston loaned Hamilton to EF and Arbroath last season, but Tiffoney went to Partick, Reilly is at Morton, Popatlnik at RR. Ayr United, Dunfermline Athletic, Partick Thistle all have, or recently had, players on loan from Celtic and Rangers. Ayr had a constant pipeline of young talent from Aberdeen - Anderson, Harvie, Rose - when McCall was in charge. We've had players on loan from Hearts. Can you provide some examples of clubs demonstrably, expressly favouring part-time clubs in relation to sending their players on loan, and therefore leaving poor, old Falkirk at yet another disadvantage? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gav-ffc Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 42 minutes ago, AGPar said: You literally quoted Mochrie to back up your argument, even though we've clearly established that Dundee United seem perfectly willing to loan young players to full-time clubs, even the worst of those flailing around in League 1. Livingston loaned Hamilton to EF and Arbroath last season, but Tiffoney went to Partick, Reilly is at Morton, Popatlnik at RR. Ayr United, Dunfermline Athletic, Partick Thistle all have, or recently had, players on loan from Celtic and Rangers. Ayr had a constant pipeline of young talent from Aberdeen - Anderson, Harvie, Rose - when McCall was in charge. We've had players on loan from Hearts. Can you provide some examples of clubs demonstrably, expressly favouring part-time clubs in relation to sending their players on loan, and therefore leaving poor, old Falkirk at yet another disadvantage? Our biggest disadvantage you speak of is being a league 1 jobber team for 3 seasons due to mismanagement of the club. I do have better things to do than go through loans over the years but I’d say Hamilton going on loan to two part time seasons and Martindale stating he could see a difference in training is an example, same with Mochrie and Ballantyne at Montrose last year also the keeper at Dumbarton on loan from Hibs. McManaus was not wanted at County/Wanted central belt and suited us perfectly but normally the loan market is a young player who isn’t ready for first team football (Fotheringham) or a player who isn’t wanted at his parent club but want some it not all the wages off the books ( McManus) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 41 minutes ago, gav-ffc said: Our biggest disadvantage you speak of is being a league 1 jobber team for 3 seasons due to mismanagement of the club. I do have better things to do than go through loans over the years but I’d say Hamilton going on loan to two part time seasons and Martindale stating he could see a difference in training is an example, same with Mochrie and Ballantyne at Montrose last year also the keeper at Dumbarton on loan from Hibs. McManaus was not wanted at County/Wanted central belt and suited us perfectly but normally the loan market is a young player who isn’t ready for first team football (Fotheringham) or a player who isn’t wanted at his parent club but want some it not all the wages off the books ( McManus) Henderson is definitely ready for first team football he's just not going to get the necessary game time for hearts in the premiership. Neilson was ready last season but deveney , Fotheringham and the boy from rangers weren't if you ask me and should never have been brought in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FFC 1876 Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 12 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said: Henderson is definitely ready for first team football he's just not going to get the necessary game time for hearts in the premiership. Neilson was ready last season but deveney , Fotheringham and the boy from rangers weren't if you ask me and should never have been brought in. Very difficult to distinguish which youngsters are 'ready' and which ones aren't. You take the gamble based on their ability and they either sink or float. We as a club however have been rotten at using the loan market effectively over the last few years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 5 minutes ago, FFC 1876 said: Very difficult to distinguish which youngsters are 'ready' and which ones aren't. You take the gamble based on their ability and they either sink or float. We as a club however have been rotten at using the loan market effectively over the last few years. The ones you want are those that have done well enough when they've played in their parent clubs first team. Henderson has played as number of times for hearts first team as had neilson. Your taking a bit of a gamble if your looking at a young player with very little or no first team experience whatsoever. I certainly wouldn't be bringing any of them in and expecting them to start like we did with Fotheringham and McClelland. They should be squad players and if they turn out to be good enough to start then that's a bonus. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gav-ffc Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 Plenty changes as expected Martin C.Williamson McKay Lemon McCann Busquets Ross Sammy Nesbitt McGuffie Wilson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 (edited) Ompreon and Wilson both starting so looks like we're hoping for penalties. Still no sign of the other Williamson unfortunately. Surely he must be back soon. Edited September 4, 2021 by Shadwell Dog 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Believe The Hype Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 That 11 is minging 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Dufresne Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said: Ompreon and Wilson both starting so looks like we're hoping for penalties. Still no sign of the other Williamson unfortunately. Surely he must be back soon. Sheerin said on Falkirk TV he was not training with the ball yet but improving every day 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 Just now, keithgy said: Sheerin said on Falkirk TV he was not training with the ball yet but improving every day God knows when he actually picked up the injury. Was he not out with covid and then injury. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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