KnightswoodBear Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Not much considering the Freys butchered the Starks and Tullys under their roof - the one unforgivable crime between noble families in Westeros. Like Ramsey, there is no way back for them. The Freys have no friends left other than the Boltons & Lannisters out of nothing more than convenience - the former are now on the verge of extinction (those left back in the Dreadfort leaderless) and the latter are Westeros' Big Tax Case incoming. That Ramsey was happy to make Fat Walda his Pedigree Chum shows no one really treats the Freys seriously as a foe, more a nuisance. It may be the case that one of Walder's many sons decides that the family name is fucked unless they do away with the old c**t and try to make amends with the North. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 A Lannister-Frey army. How will that pan out when, effectively, Jon and Sansa have just avenged the death of Walder's great grandson and Walda? I'm hoping the Hound will help thin a few Freys out. Actually, I'm still holding out an ever dwindling hope for one of my favourite Frey killers, only seen in the books so far,,,, 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestersKTID Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Wun Wun is the boy but it's incredible that throughout all that battle not one arrow hit him in the face until Ramsay did in Winterfell 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightswoodBear Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 I'm hoping the Hound will help thin a few Freys out. Actually, I'm still holding out an ever dwindling hope for one of my favourite Frey killers, only seen in the books so far,,,, ^^^ BOOK w****r!!! I really don't see them introducing that character this late in the show. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Nooka Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Wun Wun is the boy but it's incredible that throughout all that battle not one arrow hit him in the face until Ramsay did in Winterfell More incredible than Jon Snow avoiding EVERY SINGLE ONE of them? Lots of artistic licence used but still great none the less. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestersKTID Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 More incredible than Jon Snow avoiding EVERY SINGLE ONE of them? Lots of artistic licence used but still great none the less. Was going to say that ha but Wun wun is a big target 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Bearing in mind comments above, I'm trying not to be a "book w****r" - mostly because I can't remember whether this was in the book or the series. Didn't Robb Stark declare Jon Snow as his heir as King of the North? So long ago, sorry.... He 100% did in the books - he sent a couple of people back North with a few copies naming Jon his heir. I think it's mentioned in the tv show (Sure Cat rejects the notion out of hand) and we never hear about it again. If Howland Reed (Meera's dad and the boy who saved Ned at the Tower of Joy) ever does come into it, I'd imagine he will possess the letter legitimising Jon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Brightside Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Surprised that no one has mentioned the fact the Smalljon Umber is a massive c**t. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightswoodBear Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Surprised that no one has mentioned the fact the Smalljon Umber is a massive c**t. A massive c**t with a leaky jugular and an antler in his eye. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaboz Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Fucking Smalljon p***k! Take that! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiGi Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 With the Lord of Light protecting Jon during the battle, hence not getting hit by anything, he was free to wreak havoc. What a boy. How far he's come from his first kill to now. With his experience he's now gained a reputation as a great warrior. Superb stuff. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophe Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 (edited) Keep remembering more of this that I absolutely loved...The overhead shot of Littlefinger's mounties breaking the ring of iron from without. Crash! Bang! Wallop! What a video! Lady Mormont on her little pony! Hope the 62 lads she sent did OK "No, we are here to discuss the terms of YOUR surrender"... Edited June 21, 2016 by Christophe -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Some heroes hold the door - others break them. Hilarious watching him demonstrate in one simple move that any attempt by Ramsey to hold out in Winterfell would have been equally as doomed had they decided to sit it out. Not really. Ye saw when Mance attacked the Wall that a decent group of men can take out a giant in an enclosed area. He'd also have a lot more archers on the walls. Any attempt to break through the door would lead to a bottleneck that could be easily defended. With winter coming (will it ever fucking arrive?) any attempt at a siege would be a hard one to manage as well. Which raises the question... why didn't he just hole up in Winterfell? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-r-cfc Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Not really. Ye saw when Mance attacked the Wall that a decent group of men can take out a giant in an enclosed area. He'd also have a lot more archers on the walls. Any attempt to break through the door would lead to a bottleneck that could be easily defended. With winter coming (will it ever fucking arrive?) any attempt at a siege would be a hard one to manage as well. Which raises the question... why didn't he just hole up in Winterfell? Was obviously very confident of routing Jon and had Littlefinger not arrived he would've done Also, notable that some of the main Northern banners were absent? Only really clocked the Umbers and Karstark. They weren't really clear but did some not show or did Ramsay maybe not rally them all? Assuming he didn't need them 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Burton Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 (edited) Was obviously very confident of routing Jon and had Littlefinger not arrived he would've done Also, notable that some of the main Northern banners were absent? Only really clocked the Umbers and Karstark. They weren't really clear but did some not show or did Ramsay maybe not rally them all? Assuming he didn't need them Only the Umbers and Karstarks fought for Ramsay. Jon had the wildlings and houses Mormont, Horwood and Mazin. All the rest stayed out of it.Edit - book w****r comment but surprised the Maderlys weren't on Jon's side considering what happens in the book. Edited June 21, 2016 by Jack Burton 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Not really. Ye saw when Mance attacked the Wall that a decent group of men can take out a giant in an enclosed area. He'd also have a lot more archers on the walls. Any attempt to break through the door would lead to a bottleneck that could be easily defended. With winter coming (will it ever fucking arrive?) any attempt at a siege would be a hard one to manage as well. Which raises the question... why didn't he just hole up in Winterfell? You're not getting the point, which is that once a fortress of any description has a breach point it becomes an increasing liability to the defenders as what once protected them now prevents them from escaping - an important consideration as in most sieges the "no quarter" rule applied to unsuccessful defenders. Whether Wonwon died after the gate was bust open would be academic (same as the deaths of those manning a battering ram once it breeches the gates & immediately falls under archers fire), just so long as he'd done the job & created an entry point too large for the defenders to barricade back up again quickly. The defenders would now be left with no choice but to concentrate all efforts on defending it night and day - an intolerable situation. As for the "lot more archers on the wall" - well considering Wonwon had managed to survive several volleys and still managed to smash the gates after running up from a long field of battle, the smart money would be that in a straight siege instead he'd have downed the Winterfell gate in a trice & been in far ruder health to cause chaos within - and with a whole army of besiegers behind him rather than the exhausted dribs & drabs that came up with him. By the way, archers on the walls of castles would in turn be shot at themselves by the besiegers, so it's not as if they'd be getting it all their own way until the gate was smashed. Indeed one tactic of sieges was to mount useless breeches with expendible men to give your archers the opportunity to pick off his best archers whilst they were preoccupied. The sight of an ever thinning archery line on the ramparts could also easily prove the breaking point for defending soldiers. Hence Ramsey Bolton (who throughout the show has proven to be debatably the best at warfare strategy & tactics) didn't hold up for the reason any armed force capable of preventing a siege does - the danger that those outside the walls will get stronger over time than those inside (highly likely since Westeros & especially the North wasn't overrun with Ramsay allies, let alone Bolton ones); the danger that once breeched the defenders are now trapped inside by the very defences meant to keep them safe preventing escape; & finally the very real danger that any of his own men might betray him to lift the siege (see Theon Greyjoy & Blackfish Tully for details). After all that, even if surviving the siege, Winterfell could have been left so badly damaged as to have lost any strategic value it held, & with it Ramsay's hold of the north with a seriously weakened army - leaving him open to the Umbers & Glovers deciding to take their chances on getting rid of him for good. In some respects Ramsay had little choice but to go out as with Stannis & nip matters in the bud. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highlandcowden Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 (edited) I know its entertainment and suspension of disbelief etcetc,but that was utterly preposterous tosh. john snow is the worst general ever,fictional and non fictional,deserved to be defeated a thousand times over Edited June 21, 2016 by highlandcowden -3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squidger Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 on third watch, think the end scene was a throw back to the first episode with Bran being told to not look away or father will know, by i think JS, Sansa turned away and then back to watch showing her move to 'manhood' as ned would have viewed it all those series back.Unconvinced by the whole pregnant theory thing by ramsey, if so burn it burn it with fire, but thinking back there is a few references to her womb etc by ramseys GF and in sansa feeling him insde her and what he said before he got chowed by the dogs. It doesnt fit in the time line but she has been lookng a tad peaky and hiding herself under big clothes, so maybe a kind of stroy they have built but may use or not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squidger Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 I know its entertainment and suspension of disbelief etcetc,but that was utterly preposterous tosh. john snow is the worst general ever,fictional and non fictional,deserved to be defeated a thousand times over^ ^ umm hmm not watched many episodes have you? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 I know its entertainment and suspension of disbelief etcetc,but that was utterly preposterous tosh. john snow is the worst general ever,fictional and non fictional,deserved to be defeated a thousand times over Glad to see you found the dragons perfectly normal though 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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