HibeeJibee Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Regular readers of the Miscellaneous Football sub-forum will be familiar with the crazy league structure experiments recently witnessed in Belgium... who appear to have become a form of unintentional laboratory freak, for some of the bizarrest ideas in the history of domestic football organisation. Two seasons ago they reduced from 18-teams (34 game season) to 16-teams, and introduced a bizarre split + play-off format. After 30 games the Top 6 break-away and play 10 more (to make 40 games), carrying 50% of points... and the Middle 8 form 2 groups of 4 (to make 36 games), the winners of which "Play-off", the winner of which then "Plays-off" again, in a Europa League Play-off v 4th or 5th from the Top 6. Not only can this see bottom not go down, and third-bottom out of 16 qualify for Europe, it also sees them set the current European high-watermark with a 40-game regular season. (42 when play-offs are included). This season they became the first league in Europe to abolish definite relegation. The bottom 2 teams after 30 games hold a 'Best of 5 Play-off', with the loser automatically down and the winner entering a further play-off group (IIRC) with 2nd-4th from the second level. Now for next season, they've introduced another bizarre concept. So bizarre, infact, I'll quote directly from the Bert Kassies Forum (have a cold towel ready): http://kassiesa.nl/u...t=1851&start=30 For relegation purpose each team playing in first division will be awarded points depending on the standings after the competition. ( Champion 16p, 2nd 15points, ... , 16th 1 point) The points collected for the last 3 seasons will be added together. The team which has the lowest number of points then will relegate to second division. For teams who got promotion for the first time to D1 and have no results for the last 3 seasons played in D1, the result of the current season will be multiplied with 2 For teams who got promotion from D2 but have played already 1 time before in D1 in the last 3 years. the teamsresult from 3 seasons ago and the current last season multiplied with 1,5 will count as the total number of points collected. This is somewhat similar to the model introduced in Argentina a few years ago to stop 'big' teams getting relegated, I think? It's not clear what will replace the 'Best of 5 Play-off' to make a meaningful spring for the bottom 2 sides. What's your views on this latest innovation? Are the Belgians nuts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarko_son Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 had to read that 3 times to make any sense of that, Belgium has gotta be the most fucked up league in world football with that kind of structure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted March 3, 2011 Author Share Posted March 3, 2011 had to read that 3 times to make any sense of that, Belgium has gotta be the most fucked up league in world football with that kind of structure! I also forgot to say that it's not even quite as simply as "the Top 6 carrying 50% of points": * they carry 50% of points, "rounded up to the nearest integer"? * if teams are tied after the 40 games, the pre-split points are removed to make a new head-to-head * teams in the Middle 8 start afresh, carrying forward nothing points-wise from before the split Any league where 14th out of 16 can qualify for Europe... and bottom doesn't automatically go down... all after a 35/36/38/40/41/42-game season... is a bit messed-up, IMO. (Your season ticket must give a hellish variable return, too). Having relegation based on a 3-year average is just even more silly. Do fans not surely get confused with it all as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 i don't think billy dodds and alan preston would be in favour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussellV1 Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Makes perfect sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stm Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 I can see them now, on the terracing with their abacus. Relegated, shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted March 3, 2011 Author Share Posted March 3, 2011 The idea of playing the same team 5 games in a row also sounds mind-numbingly turgid, although tbf - the fact it decides relegation perhaps makes it really exciting. And when you consider their FA Cup is 2-legged in the latter stages, you could play someone 9 times just in the League and Cup (8 of which could come in March-April/May). Still, whatever floats the Belgian boat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarko_son Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 I also forgot to say that it's not even quite as simply as "the Top 6 carrying 50% of points": * they carry 50% of points, "rounded up to the nearest integer"? * if teams are tied after the 40 games, the pre-split points are removed to make a new head-to-head * teams in the Middle 8 start afresh, carrying forward nothing points-wise from before the split Any league where 14th out of 16 can qualify for Europe... and bottom doesn't automatically go down... all after a 35/36/38/40/41/42-game season... is a bit messed-up, IMO. (Your season ticket must give a hellish variable return, too). Having relegation based on a 3-year average is just even more silly. Do fans not surely get confused with it all as well? when you have to include that as part of the league rules you should just admit, somethings gone seriously wrong also i don't understand how one team can play 35 games yet another could play 42.. in the same league those wacky belgians.. i saw a group of them wearing gold suits laughing at oranges in my local asda one time, just a random side point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudge Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 At least it's more exciting than the system we've got in place now. It would see negative diddies like St. Mirren who finish just above the drop ever year finally take the plunge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted March 3, 2011 Author Share Posted March 3, 2011 when you have to include that as part of the league rules you should just admit, somethings gone seriously wrong also i don't understand how one team can play 35 games yet another could play 42.. in the same league those wacky belgians.. i saw a group of them wearing gold suits laughing at oranges in my local asda one time, just a random side point Well, that includes the Play-offs of course. So 30 regular-season games, then the Split, and then more regular-season games + play-offs . The totals are: Top 6... * 5 will play 40 games * 1 will play 42 games (includes 2-legged Europa League Play-off) Middle 8... * 6 will play 36 games * 1 will play 38 games (includes 2-legged Europa League Testmatch) * 1 will play 40 games (includes 2-legged Europa League Testmatch + 2-legged Europa League Play-off) Bottom 2... * 1 will play 41 games (includes 'Best of 5' Play-offs + 6-game Promotion-Relegation Play-off Group) * 1 will play 35 games (includes 'Best of 5' Play-offs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingdong1929 Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 when you have to include that as part of the league rules you should just admit, somethings gone seriously wrong also i don't understand how one team can play 35 games yet another could play 42.. in the same league those wacky belgians.. i saw a group of them wearing gold suits laughing at oranges in my local asda one time, just a random side point that. is. awesome. green dot! the belgian league structure sounds like an over-worked satirical joke on modern league structures. like "BASEketball", but more ridiculous and unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calum_gers Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 It does shed some light on why they have gone nearly a year without forming a government. God knows what sort of formula they are trying to put in place for that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurph Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Awesome. I'm going to go some bottom dwelling side in Football Manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted March 4, 2011 Author Share Posted March 4, 2011 Awesome. I'm going to go some bottom dwelling side in Football Manager. I've not had a management game for about 6 years, but I remember the days when EA Sports couldn't even cope with the SPL split. You just got a 33-game season. Heaven only knows what they'd have made of this Belgian bizareness!! Another weird rule for you... in the Belgian Cup, the QFs + SFs are 2-legged. If a 3rd-tier side or lower qualify, they choose which leg is at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calum_gers Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 I've not had a management game for about 6 years, but I remember the days when EA Sports couldn't even cope with the SPL split. You just got a 33-game season. Heaven only knows what they'd have made of this Belgian bizareness!! Another weird rule for you... in the Belgian Cup, the QFs + SFs are 2-legged. If a 3rd-tier side or lower qualify, they choose which leg is at home. That's actually quite sensible. There is a similiar rule in France in the earlier rounds. You would have to check the exact rounds, but in the 3rd (at least) round the top division teams can only be drawn away from home unless they meet another top division team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremiah pickle pants Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Awesome. I'm going to go some bottom dwelling side in Football Manager. I played this league in FM2010 That was without the best of 5 playoff at the bottom. I didn't like halfing the points for the top 6. Games are quite congested late on for the top 6 but maybe that's an argument for challenging the entire squad. As for the relagation over 3 years, I'm not dead against it. The explanation was a bit weird though. 'Relagation is based on based on ppg(points per game) over the last 3 premier league seasons' <------Is that right. Teams that have had a good season can try and build on it without a panic if they get off to a bad start. Possibility of more stability with managers leading to better squad development. I would rather have a team in the league which is sometimes rubbish, sometimes great rather than a consistantly poor team. Problems with the league could be a diddy team has an exellent year and for example get's 2nd place but go into freefall and finnishs bottom 2 years running but is saved by their 2nd place. The following year they get their act together finnish 4th qualify for europe but isn't a good enough season to replace 3 years previous and they get relagated. Also their will be less relagation dog fights. So how about these rules:- Bottom team is relagated Other relagaion(s) based on ppg over the last 3 seasons. Top 6 clubs in the current season cannot be relagated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 At least they are fcuking trying something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremiah pickle pants Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 At least they are fcuking trying something! How about this, teams that havn't qualified for europe in 5 years get relagated. We tend to relagate based on negatives instead of relagation based on lack of positives. Just a thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 I think the average point thing for relegation is a good idea. It keeps things competitive. Possibly a compromise would be the bottom team going down automatically, and the team with the lowest average facing a play-off. It wouldn't work with the split though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stm Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Even though they seem to be taking it to new levels of complication some of their original ideas were interesting. I must admit to liking the halving of points and Euro play offs for teams in 'bottom' of split. As banana mentioned, at least its something radical (if not wholly mental). Better having a go at something new rather than a decade old solution which has tried and failed twice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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