raith_94 Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Yikes, it was too late for me to have read all that. Crazy Belgique! Good for them though, bet nobody in Belgium is talking about our league! i don't think billy dodds and alan preston would be in favour. I don't think Billy Dodds or Alan Preston would have got to the end of Hibee Jibee's original post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stm Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Utter lunacy from our European cousins. Don't they realise that the way forward to develop their game, gain fan interest and generate squillions of pounds is to have a smaller league (with 7 out of the 10 teams having been in the same division the last time the format was chucked) and make them play each other 4 times a season (possibly leading to 9 ties with play offs, cup replays etc). Also, to jazz up the 'moribund' lower leagues stick in reserve eams from clubs who already play in the top division. PS I wonder if there is a Belgian P&B equivalent mocking our system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotts56 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Mad as a box of frogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lau03143 Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 A total clusterfuk of a league system. But at least they are trying to bring in new formats and getting the game interesting! It also means every game truely counts and means that teams in the midle with no real fear of relegation, actually do have to watch their average results. It would surely put the shitters up the like of Kilmarnock, Motherwell and Hibs here in Scotland! Well intended, but total ludicracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Belgian Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Only just seen this thread, I went away on the 2nd March for 2 weeks so I narrowly missed when the thread came out, and haven't regularly checked in this forum for anything. All I can say is....what the f*ck? In regards to the team I support (RSC Charleroi), this season's campaign sees us in the best-of-five relegation fight thingy against Eupen. Eupen get the 3 points head start, and will most likely survive and play in the, umm, next relegation thing vs teams in the division below? My head hurts, and I've been trying to follow this since it came out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katboy Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Only just came across this thread. As far as I can see it is just absolute lunacy. The people who thought this up want their heads looking at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatwad Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Yep Borys, although any language would do... GoogleTranslate can often make an OK job. I've tried Googling myself but couldn't turn anything up. I agree with some of the post about the lack of 'imagination' in Scotland... our 'radical reform' © (Neil Doncaster, 2010-11) is simply a case of going back to 1980s/1990s set-up. There's nothing radical about 10-team SPL, 12-team SPL2, even the winter break has gone. There was an opportunity to use a better split, have European play-offs, change the points systems?, etc. etc. - but all of this has been rejected. The inter-divisional play-offs have a vague sense of novelty, in that they involve 8th v 9th and 2nd v 3rd... but I would not go as far as to describe it as radical, nor will that element make it particularly more exciting than other play-off formats. The intention is just to ensure one of the bigger sides is involved every season, to ensure the crowds + income + media coverage are decent. Out of interest does anyone know of European leagues not using the 3/1/0 points system, or awarding points bonuses for away wins/X goals scored in a game/thresholds in in the Goals For column, etc.? Not a top division, but the French CFA [4th tier] goes with 4 points for a win, 2 for a draw and 1 for a defeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lau03143 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Not a top division, but the French CFA [4th tier] goes with 4 points for a win, 2 for a draw and 1 for a defeat. 1 point for a defeat? I can't understand why you'd get 1 point for a defeat? I suppose for Kids football you could say 1 point if you get beat by say no more than a goal if your working on the system of 4-2-1... but I can't see any real reason for a system like this! Any one else got an idea why they would use this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partick_twinny Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 1 point for a defeat? I can't understand why you'd get 1 point for a defeat? I suppose for Kids football you could say 1 point if you get beat by say no more than a goal if your working on the system of 4-2-1... but I can't see any real reason for a system like this! Any one else got an idea why they would use this? From a quick look on wikipedia it says that league is amateur, and no points are awarded for forfeited games, so perhaps there are a lot of games not played due to not being able to put a squad together or something like that, and the 1 point for a loss encourages you to turn up. In the end, if every game is played, the league will end up the same as it would in a 3-1-0 system except after (34 games I think it is) each team will have 34 points extra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borys Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Ahoj! I'm surprised that you guys haven't run into 3 for Win, 2 for D, 1 for L, and 0 for Forfeit points systems ever before. I believe these conventions to be quite widespread. In Poland 3210 is used in rugby union, for instance, while 210 is used in basketball and volleyball (no Draws). And I really doubt that these systems originated in Poland, I'd assume their origin is Great Britain or some other West European country. The 4210 points system looks to me like an update of 3210, to bring it in line with 310 (i.e. like 3210 was with 210). Borys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lau03143 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Ahoj! I'm surprised that you guys haven't run into 3 for Win, 2 for D, 1 for L, and 0 for Forfeit points systems ever before. I believe these conventions to be quite widespread. In Poland 3210 is used in rugby union, for instance, while 210 is used in basketball and volleyball (no Draws). And I really doubt that these systems originated in Poland, I'd assume their origin is Great Britain or some other West European country. The 4210 points system looks to me like an update of 3210, to bring it in line with 310 (i.e. like 3210 was with 210). Borys The only variation I've come across is in Rugby union where you get a bonus point system The Rugby union bonus points system is a method of deciding table points from a rugby union match. It was implemented in order to encourage attacking play throughout a match, to discourage repetitive goal-kicking, and to reward teams for "coming close" in losing efforts. No points are awarded for losing, unless bonus points are involved. No team can get more than 5 points in a match. In the system used in the Asian Five Nations competition, the minimum number of points that can be awarded to the two teams is 5 and the maximum 8, with a maximum of 6 points available to one team. Under the standard system, points are awarded as follows: 4 points for a win. 2 points for a draw. 1 "bonus" point for scoring 4 tries (or more). 1 "bonus" point for losing by 7 points (or fewer). But for football, I haven't came across anything other than the 3-1-0 systems since it was changed in Scotland in the early 90's. Edit: To say the quote was taken from wikipedia - Rugby Union Bonus Points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 There has been some interesting experimentation over the years. The Republic of Ireland used an away bonus system in 1981-82 (4pts for an away win / 2pts for an away draw). In 1987, Norway had a shoot-out after a drawn game, with the winner gettings 2pts instead of 1pt. The MLS in the late 1990s was even more draconian... if you lost the shoot-out, you got 0pts, just as if you'd lost the match!! There was also some bizarre system in Greece in the 1970s? IIRC, but Google hasn't come-up with the goods. I think it was a bonus for winning by X goals, or leading at HT, or something. The Scottish North-Eastern League during WWII was played under the Apertura-Clausura format. In the autumn season, it used the standard 2pts for a win/1pt for a draw. However, in the spring season, a bonus of 1pt was given for an away draw or away win. (The exception to this was the first spring season in 1942... where a bonus of 1pt was given for a better aggregate score - i.e. over 2 games - over each opponent). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honestly united Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Quite a few of the 2nd team leagues (i play in the warwickshire 2nds leagues and thats what we use) in rugby use the 421 format (4 for win, 2 draw 1 lose) dont know why, maybe it is to do with walkovers etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted May 18, 2011 Author Share Posted May 18, 2011 Genk have won the Belgian league by half a point. http://kassiesa.nl/uefa/forum2/viewtopic.php?t=1851&start=60 The first tiebreaker is the "half-point". Genk had 64 points from the first 30 games and started with 32 points. Standard had 49 points and started with 25 (when they should have 24.5). Our FA doesn't want to see x points and an half but everything works as if Standard had 49.5 points and Genk 50. There's also the bizarre prospect of the European Play-off Final being cancelled, or being between 2 sides that have already qualified for Europe: http://kassiesa.nl/uefa/forum2/viewtopic.php?t=1851&start=60 The play-off will be cancelled if Westerlo win the Cup final on Saturday. Club Brugge will then automatically be qualified for EL Q2. If Westerlo loses the Cup final, then Club Brugge and Westerlo will play-off with the winner qualfying for EL Q3 and the loser for EL Q2. Crazy Belgians... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Belgian Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Genk have won the Belgian league by half a point. There's also the bizarre prospect of the European Play-off Final being cancelled, or being between 2 sides that have already qualified for Europe: Crazy Belgians... Nutters and proud Unfortunately, the idiotic relegation playoff (bottom 2, Best of Five, 15th get 3 pt head start) wasn't enough to see Charleroi survive, down we go, first time since the mid 80s we wont play at the top level Meanwhile, Eupen (the w*nks who relegated us through the playoff) haven't had a great start to their four team group with 2nd, 3rd and 4th in D2. 3 games played, 4 Goals For, 12 Against, 0 Points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Is there any trouble between Flemish and the Walloon clubs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted May 19, 2011 Author Share Posted May 19, 2011 "Belgium's Secret Shame", perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Belgian Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Is there any trouble between Flemish and the Walloon clubs? There is a bit yeah, although I don't follow it that much as I only really look out for the scores. However, I'm sure last season the Tubize fans (Walloon club) endured a horrid time in Genk (Flemish team), Genk fans were calling them (or calling Walloons in general) paedophiles and stuff. There are many more Flemish clubs though, off the top of my head, Wallonia only had RSC Charleroi, Anderlecht, Eupen and Standard Liege in the top flight this season, unless I've missed out someone else. Anderlecht is borderline as Brussels is both Flemish and Wallonian, and Eupen are from the small German speaking area of Belgium. Generally I don't think it would be that bad though. A few Flemish extremists want the country to split, but I think the majority of people want the country to stay how it is. Problems have risen (governments not lasting long, the national football team underperfoming due to terrible team spirit), but I doubt (or at least, hope) that fans get along well enough. I can't be sure though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share Posted July 19, 2015 Bump. I was reading today that these crazy horse Belgians are at it again. To recap: at the moment the nationwide levels in Belgium are the Pro League (16 clubs) and the Second League (18 clubs), beneath which are two parallel Third Leagues (18 clubs each) and four parallel Fourth Leagues (16 clubs each). 16 18 18 18 16 16 16 16 Under that stands a network of 9 provincial regions. In the Pro League they play home-and-away for 30 games then split into 'Top 6', 'Middle 8' and 'Bottom 2'... the Top 8 halve their points (rounded to the nearest integer) and play home-and-away again for 40 games in total; the 'Middle 8' go into 2 pools of 8, start from scratch, and play home-and-away for 36 games in total; and the 'Bottom 2' play a best-of-five series for 33-35 games in total. Winners of the Middle 8 pools then play-off, and the winner of that in turn plays-off with 4th place in the Top 6, for the last Europa League place In the Second League they play home-and-away for 34 games. Champion is promoted at the expense of whoever lost the best-of-five series. Clubs which did best over matchdays 1-10, 11-22 and 23-34 join the winners of the best-of-five series in a home-and-away playoff group for a place in the Pro League, for 39-41 games in total (Pro League club) and 40 games in total (Second League clubs). Third and Fourth leagues operate as the Second League, except the promotion playoffs are knockout; there is promotion/relegation from the Fourth leagues into the provincial leagues, too. Over the next 2 seasons a number of further changes are being made, to produce: 16 8 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 (tbc) * the Pro League is not changing size but the best-of-five series is being abolished. So bottom will go down automatically; there will be no relegation playoff; and the bottom 2 clubs won't have games after March. Also whoever is top at the split will be guaranteed a European slot making it possible that 4th in the Top 6 will get nothing, and 3rd will have to play-off with the Middle 8 champion for a Europa League place. * the Second League is being slashed - from 18 clubs to 8 clubs. They will play Autumn and Spring seasons, of 14 games each, and the champions will play off for the title and the only promotion place. * the Third League is being reorganised as the Amateur Superleague, with 16 clubs, mainly those dumped out of the slim-lined Second League. * the Fourth League is being reorganised, with 3 parallel divisions of 16 clubs, mainly those dumped out of the Third League * a quota-system based on linguistic use is being introduced for 8 remaining slots in the Fourth League * a new Fifth League begins, with 4 parallel divisions of 16 clubs (tbc), mainly for those dumped out of the Fourth League Incidentally, they have also abolished the Womens BeNe League shared with Holland. Utterly bamboozling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 In the Pro League they play home-and-away for 30 games then split into 'Top 6', 'Middle 8' and 'Bottom 2'... the Top 8 halve their points (rounded to the nearest integer) and play home-and-away again for 40 games in total; the 'Middle 8' go into 2 pools of 8, very bamboozling, yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.