HibeeJibee Posted April 27, 2016 Author Share Posted April 27, 2016 That sounds absolutely fucking ludicrous. Also, what exactly is happening with their second division next season? I noticed one post saying there would only be 8 teams? Yes, they are cutting their second tier from 18 clubs to 8 clubs. They'll play two half-seasons and the respective winners will play-off to replace bottom in tier 1. No other promotion into tier 1. Current model of 16 18 18-18 16-16-16-16 four provincial tiers below becomes 16 8 16 16-16-16* 16-16-16*-16* four provincial tiers below It is worth noting that currently the top 4 levels are nationwide - at tiers 3 & 4 the clubs are randomly put into parallel divisions. From next season tiers 3 & 4 are divided on political and ethnic lines, into Flanders + Wallonia (marked with *) areas. There are "linguistic quotas". Read the whole thread for more of their crazy goings-on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Looks to me like there will be fourteen teams unless I've worked it out wrong. Just one relegated from Pro League (they've got rid of the relegation test matches so now second bottom stays ip), teams finishing 2-8 in this year's D2 and six teams promoted from level three. Looks like 8 teams relegated from 2->3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Ah hang on I was a page behind HJ has already answered! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameus Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 The Belgian FA are weird. Two teams at the top tied on points and play each other on the last day. Team in 3rd gets awarded two points six months after making a complaint and now takes the lead and play the team bottom of the league. The team doesn't even have a licence to play in the top flight! Reddit link Worth scrolling down and reading Zakariyya's post too That is absolutely mental on so many levels. First, what are the Belgian FA playing at taking six months to make the decision? It seems a fair enough one to make - illegal player, so follows that they get the extra points for it. But surely they should get the points, you know, around the time the match happened? And the decision's not just delayed, it's seemingly been made at the worst possible time, rendering what could have been a wonderful end of season battle ultimately pointless given there's only one promotion place. Then there's the club themselves, who have effectively been turned into a complete joke. There's been cases of poor ownership over here, but do any of them hold a candle to what that guy seems to be doing? Good link Smurph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 That is absolutely mental on so many levels. First, what are the Belgian FA playing at taking six months to make the decision? It seems a fair enough one to make - illegal player, so follows that they get the extra points for it. But surely they should get the points, you know, around the time the match happened? And the decision's not just delayed, it's seemingly been made at the worst possible time, rendering what could have been a wonderful end of season battle ultimately pointless given there's only one promotion place. Then there's the club themselves, who have effectively been turned into a complete joke. There's been cases of poor ownership over here, but do any of them hold a candle to what that guy seems to be doing? Good link Smurph The closest I can think of is probably Clydebank, with the proposed moves to Carlisle and Dublin as well as the stints sharing grounds across the West of Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted April 27, 2016 Author Share Posted April 27, 2016 Belgium has a wacky history when it comes to clubs. Mergers, relocations, renamings, take-overs, winding-ups all over the place. I think one of the best known examples is that of RWD Molenbeek (who played in Europe a few times) - who were successively Daring Brussels, Royal Daring Club Molenbeek, RDC Brussels, RDC Molenbeek again, then finally Racing White Daring Molenbeek, before going bust in 2002... then was "revived" by moving KFC Strombeek to RWDM's ground and renaming them FC Molenbeek Brussels Strombeek... except some fans formed a new RWDM, took a quadruple promotion by absorbing a club from Brabant, then last year bought-out Standard Wetteren to form RWDM Brussels - 'known as FC Brussels' - which is now called RWDM47. Out of their crazed continental minds. There are similar examples, e.g. Beerschot Antwerp: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K._Beerschot_V.A.C. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beerschot_AC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted September 18, 2016 Author Share Posted September 18, 2016 Bump. This thread had become something of a parking lot of odd league systems - although chat about the wacky new Danish model popped-up on the Premiership sub-forum - so it seems an appropriate place to mention changes in Armenia. In recent times Armenia has only had 8 to 10 senior clubs and so in recent years their league set-up has contained an 8-team Premier Division and an 8-team First Division, the latter containing the 8 B teams of the Premier Division. Both divisions played 4 times for 28 games - and the 8 clubs entered directly at the Armenian Cup QFs. In that tournament QFs and SFs were over 2 legs with the Final at a neutral venue. They also have a Supercup. However for this season they have reduced the Premier Division to 6 teams. As a result they are going to play each other 6 times for 30 games, and the First Division - containing the 2 demoted clubs and 6 B teams - will continue to play 28 games. Cup format also unchanged. So many clubs will play each other 8 times, some 9 times with Supercup. This gives Armenia the smallest top division in Europe - till now they shared that accolade with Andorra; and they play each other the most times - surpassing the Macedonian bottom 6 who ultimately play each other 5 times. Armenian football - certainly not a land of variety... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highlandcowden Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 Got to say,ive been enjoying watching the Belgian footy so far this season,been some decent action and unlike some of the league's BT sport are covering the league's not going to be a foregone conclusion.suspect it won't be clubbrugge,though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 It had escaped my notice but the Belgians have changed some aspects of their league system for this season beyond that previously announced. They've ramped-up the crazy again. Posters will recall that until now the Belgians had a 16-team top flight. After 30 games it split into a Top 6 who played again for 40 games; a Middle 8 who formed two parallel pools of 4, playing again for 36 games, the winners then playing a Semi-final, and the winner of that tie a Final against fourth in the Top 6 for a place in EL; and a Bottom 2 who initially played a 'Best of Five' relegation series... but in recent years bottom simply stopped playing in March and second bottom went into promotion/relegation playoffs. They had also announced reduction in the second tier from 18 clubs to just 8 clubs, who would play a pair of 14-game half seasons; with the respective winners contesting a Grand Final for promotion, which had been reduced to 1-up-1-down. Well all that stands - but they've expanded the Middle 8 to a Middle 12 forming two parallel pools of 6, playing again for 40 games. Bottom still stops playing in March so three best teams from the second tier, decided on an aggregated table of the two half-seasons, will also participate. Fourth in the second tier will also stop playing in March, and fifth to eighth will form a Bottom 4 (carrying forward "half-points rounded up to the nearest whole number") playing to avoid relegation. Those clubs will meet 6 - or 8? - times overall. Divisions renamed "First Division A" and "First Division B". EL playoffs now single-legged. So in theory whoever finishes 3rd in the second level can qualify for EL at the expense of whoever finishes 4th in the top level . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 Illustrated:Belgian First Division A 1 - Top 6 2 - Top 6 3 - Top 6 4 - Top 6 5 - Top 6 6 - Top 6 -------------------- 7 - Middle 12 8 - Middle 12 9 - Middle 12 10 - Middle 12 11 - Middle 12 12 - Middle 12 13 - Middle 12 14 - Middle 12 15 - Middle 12 -------------------- 16(16th stops playing in March and relegated / winners of two First Division B half-seasons play-off and winner promoted / 4th in First Division B stops playing in March) Belgian First Division B 1 - Middle 12 2 - Middle 12 3 - Middle 12 -------------------- 4 -------------------- 5 - Bottom 4 6 - Bottom 4 7 - Bottom 4 8 - Bottom 4Belgian Top 6 1 - CL 2 - CL 3 - EL 4 - (EL Playoff Final) 5 6Belgian Middle 12 - Pool A 1 - (EL Playoff Semi-final) 2 3 4 5 6Belgian Middle 12 - Pool B 1 - (EL Playoff Semi-final) 2 3 4 5 6Belgian Bottom 4 1 2 3 4 - relegated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honestly united Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 55 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said: Illustrated:Belgian First Division A 1 - Top 6 2 - Top 6 3 - Top 6 4 - Top 6 5 - Top 6 6 - Top 6 -------------------- 7 - Middle 12 8 - Middle 12 9 - Middle 12 10 - Middle 12 11 - Middle 12 12 - Middle 12 13 - Middle 12 14 - Middle 12 15 - Middle 12 -------------------- 16(16th stops playing in March and relegated / winners of two First Division B half-seasons play-off and winner promoted / 4th in First Division B stops playing in March) Belgian First Division B 1 - Middle 12 2 - Middle 12 3 - Middle 12 -------------------- 4 -------------------- 5 - Bottom 4 6 - Bottom 4 7 - Bottom 4 8 - Bottom 4Belgian Top 6 1 - CL 2 - CL 3 - EL 4 - (EL Playoff Final) 5 6Belgian Middle 12 - Pool A 1 - (EL Playoff Semi-final) 2 3 4 5 6Belgian Middle 12 - Pool B 1 - (EL Playoff Semi-final) 2 3 4 5 6Belgian Bottom 4 1 2 3 4 - relegated Just to clarify the First Division B - only one team actually promoted (play off between first half and second half winners) but top 3 of amalgamated season get to play in the middle 12. So in theory you could have a team who was dreadful in the first half of the season, but wins the 2nd half and the playoff to be promoted, but could miss out on the middle 12 and either finishes 4 combined to not have a game for a third of the season, or worse, is involved in the bottom 4, where their is a possibility of being relegated. Imagine the team being promoted to the First Division A could be in a play off to stave of relegation to Division B in the same season!! And where would they play if they wont the promotion play off but were then relegated?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 Conceivably someone could be promoted without reaching the Middle 12, correct... ... i.e. if they won one of the 14-game half-seasons and the Grand Final, but finished 4th or below in the 28-game aggregate table. As you say - if they finished 5th or below, then last in the Bottom 4, they would be relegated to the third level and promoted to the top level at the same time . Presumably they're banking on that not happening... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 Some changes also being made in Andorra. Until now their 8-team Premier Division played home-and-away (14 games) then split into a Top 4 and Bottom 4, playing home-and-away again for a total of 20 games. From this season they are playing 3 times before the split for a total of 27 games. This means Iceland on 22 games is now the shortest league program. Bosnia & Herzegovina and Ukraine have both moved to increasingly popular 12-team top divisions which play home-and-away (22 games) then split into Top 6 and Bottom 6, playing home-and-away again for a total of 32 games. Having moved to 10-teams some kind of revolt in Bulgaria has brought them up to 14-teams after 1 season, using the new Danish model. Georgia is downsizing from 16 to 10. Lithuania has downsized from 10 to 8. After playing 4 times, as before, a Top 6 will play each other a fifth time for a total of 33 games. So some or all of the clubs in Andorra, Armenia, Macedonia and Lithuania now meet 5-6 times in the league, something which was unheard of until now (except the Bottom 4 in a transitional season in Latvia in 1996). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 On 18/09/2016 at 19:08, HibeeJibee said: Bump. This thread had become something of a parking lot of odd league systems - although chat about the wacky new Danish model popped-up on the Premiership sub-forum - so it seems an appropriate place to mention changes in Armenia. In recent times Armenia has only had 8 to 10 senior clubs and so in recent years their league set-up has contained an 8-team Premier Division and an 8-team First Division, the latter containing the 8 B teams of the Premier Division. Both divisions played 4 times for 28 games - and the 8 clubs entered directly at the Armenian Cup QFs. In that tournament QFs and SFs were over 2 legs with the Final at a neutral venue. They also have a Supercup. However for this season they have reduced the Premier Division to 6 teams. As a result they are going to play each other 6 times for 30 games, and the First Division - containing the 2 demoted clubs and 6 B teams - will continue to play 28 games. Cup format also unchanged. So many clubs will play each other 8 times, some 9 times with Supercup. This gives Armenia the smallest top division in Europe - till now they shared that accolade with Andorra; and they play each other the most times - surpassing the Macedonian bottom 6 who ultimately play each other 5 times. Armenian football - certainly not a land of variety... You shouldn't post this here, you might give Doncaster ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Well that clears that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 45 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said: Well that clears that up. I honestly don't believe that a lot of the fans in Belgium know what's going on - it is so complicated to follow a lot of the permutations. Same goes for Denmark and Bulgaria albeit less severely (particularly as clubs keep all their pre-split points). It takes an essay to properly explain everything. As if to illustrate this: having asked on the Bert Kassies forum, there's actually a subtle extra detail which means the "promoted but relegated" scenario above can't actually happen. If the winner of the Grand Final for promotion to First Division A also ends-up 5th or below, they do not go into the Bottom 4. Instead the 4th place club does instead - and the champion stops playing in March. So even finishing 4th might actually see you placed as if 5th. Interestingly, since the system was introduced these have been the EL Playoff outcomes:2009-10 ... St Truiden, 4th in Top 6, lost to Genk (11th in regular season) 2010-11 ... not held, both clubs already qualified 2011-12 ... Gent, 4th in Top 6, beat Cercle Brugge (7th in regular season) 2012-13 ... Standard Liege, 4th in Top 6, beat Gent (12th in regular season) 2013-14 ... not held, SF winner denied licence 2014-15 ... Charleroi, 5th in Top 6, beat Mechelen (9th in regular season) 2015-16 ... Genk, 4th in Top 6, beat Charleroi (8th in regular season) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernLights Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Me trying to get my head around the Belgium league system... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 4 minutes ago, NorthernLights said: Me trying to get my head around the Belgium league system... It's a Hazard of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted May 4, 2017 Author Share Posted May 4, 2017 Just an update on where things stand. You may need to read this more than once.Top division - Anderlecht, Club Brugge, Zulte Waregem, Gent, Oostende and Charleroi qualified for the Top 6. Points were halved, and rounded to the nearest integer. Waregem are now 6th but have qualified for EL by winning the Belgian Cup; top 2 will qualify for CL and 3rd for EL. It looks like Anderlecht will win and Brugge and Gent fight for 2nd. This leaves Charleroi and Oostende fighting for 4th and its place in Belgian EL Playoff Series. Westerlo finished last in the opening part of the season and were relegated. Their last game was the second weekend in March.Second division - Roeselare won the "first half of the season" championship and Antwerp won the "second half" championship. Antwerp then won the title playoff, and with it promotion... but were consequently barred from progressing to the Belgian EL Playoff Series. However in the aggregate table gutted Lierse actually finished top by 5pts (they'd finished 2nd in each half)... accordingly they, Roeselare and 4th place Union entered that Series. Antwerp's last game was in early March. Bottom 4 in the second division held a "third half" championship - with half their aggregate points, rounded to the nearest integer - where they played each for a 5th & 6th time. Lommel United finished bottom, and have been relegated to the third division for next season. It's too complicated to explain who will replace them...Belgian EL Playoff Series - clubs which finished outside the Top 6 except Westerlo joined Lierse, Roeselare and Union. All points were scrubbed. They split into 2 parallel pools, then the winners of each playoff for the right to face Charleroi or Oostend. Though only intended to makeup the numbers Union are actually 2nd and Lierse 4th in Pool A with 4 games left.At the time of writing the club which finished 4th out of 8 in the Second division is only 3pts away from a playoff Sf for the right to play 4th in the Top division in a playoff Final for Belgium's last EL place . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senorsoupe Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Not league structure related, but still pretty mad (and exciting as a Canadian) but 18 year old Canadian Jonathan David came off the bench for Gent this weekend and scored twice. He has now made 3 sub appearances and scored 4 goals, that's 4 goals in 52 competitive minutes of football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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