Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[coprolite]

JIm?, what is actually your point here? Finally as we all know and hoped for, Rangers FC PLC have been found guilty of abusing a legal pension scheme with benefits to bribe players to play for them they otherwise couldn't have afforded, and it almost looks like you are defending their crime by saying it's not a sham???
It has been found out to be a sham hasn't it? The FTT & the UTT outcomes do not even matter one jot now other than they were previously contested outcomes.

The loans were found to be actual bona fide loans as a fact by the FTT. They were not a sham. What the court of session found was that the funds were put at the disposal of employees as a result of their employment, not that they weren't loans.

[coprolite]

Sorry but this is utter dross.  No-one is arguing that the EBT schemes were not legal.  Ranger's use of them was not and yet LNS proceeded on the basis that Rangers used the schemes legally.  They clearly did not.

nope.

Rangers use of the EBT was entirely legal and above board. This is not and has not been in doubt.

The way they reported their PAYE obligations was the problem.

Had they done what they did but paid the tax and NI, there would be no issue. Ergo the EBT was not the problem, the tax return was.

[The DA]

Just now, coprolite said:

 

nope.

Rangers use of the EBT was entirely legal and above board. This is not and has not been in doubt.

The way they reported their PAYE obligations was the problem.

Had they done what they did but paid the tax and NI, there would be no issue. Ergo the EBT was not the problem, the tax return was.

 

As I understand it, the EBTs were legal but Rangers'use of side-letters committing them to paying what were supposed to be discretionary, non-contractual loans broke the footballing authority's rules.  Not illegal but unlawful.

[strichener]

Just now, coprolite said:

 

nope.

Rangers use of the EBT was entirely legal and above board. This is not and has not been in doubt.

The way they reported their PAYE obligations was the problem.

Had they done what they did but paid the tax and NI, there would be no issue. Ergo the EBT was not the problem, the tax return was.

In your own words - nope.

Rangers used a mechanism that was sold to them on the basis that in utilising EBTs they could circumvent the requirement to pay PAYE.  It was the very essence of why they used it and therefore the EBT was entirely the problem.  A bit like a speeding driver causing a crash but pointing out that it could have been so much worse if the car hadn't had an MOT.

 

[coprolite]

I thought that LNS had found that the players were incorrectly registered in the first place, no?

they got off because of "no sporting advantage".

I can't see why the decision would change because of the tax treatment which is only a bit relevant.

The decision was obviously a farce but no one should get their hopes up.

[MikeyWellFan]

It still amazes me how hard done by these c***s feel.

They got every helping hand going from the authorities in this country and they should be thankful that they are still watching football at Ibrox.

They have not been adequately punished but there is zero chance of the authorities in this country doing so as they don't want to upset the violent and militaristic Rangers support.

Title stripping is a pipe dream.

[shull]

1 hour ago, BobWilliamson said:

Nothing like reading the moon howlers on here to cheer you up 

Happy his dead Club cheated. 

[nsr]

25 minutes ago, MikeyWellFan said:

It still amazes me how hard done by these c***s feel.

They got every helping hand going from the authorities in this country and they should be thankful that they are still watching football at Ibrox.
 

They see everything as a life and death struggle against the forces of Timothy and Popery. If something bad happens to Rangers, it's because "Them" are behind it. Not because Rangers did something stupid or illegal.

[Jambomo]

11 minutes ago, shull said:

Happy his dead Club cheated. 

Of course he is, and given that they will go unpunished for it, why wouldn't he be?

[coprolite]

In your own words - nope.
Rangers used a mechanism that was sold to them on the basis that in utilising EBTs they could circumvent the requirement to pay PAYE.  It was the very essence of why they used it and therefore the EBT was entirely the problem.  A bit like a speeding driver causing a crash but pointing out that it could have been so much worse if the car hadn't had an MOT.
 

You are confusing their reason for using it with how they used it.

I agree that there would be no real reason for using the trust the way they did absent the tax benefit but that doesn't mean the use was illegal.

if i do up old cars and sell them legitemately on ebay but don't tell hmrc, it isn't using ebay to sell cars that is illegal.

[BobWilliamson]

26 minutes ago, MikeyWellFan said:

It still amazes me how hard done by these c***s feel.

They got every helping hand going from the authorities in this country and they should be thankful that they are still watching football at Ibrox.

They have not been adequately punished but there is zero chance of the authorities in this country doing so as they don't want to upset the violent and militaristic Rangers support.

Title stripping is a pipe dream.

Helping hand? Like when the SFA went against a UEFA directive and closed a transfer window early so we missed out on signing players.

Like when the club were voted out the top flight?

The other clubs benefited financially to the TV deal that was only in place if Rangers were involved. Rangers received next to nothing.

Like withholding Rangers license to play so the club could play no pre season friendliest.

I am glad my club were punished the way they were as we , the support, can look back and say we did it on our own. We asked for nothing and we got nothing. 

It is utterly laughable supporters of the other clubs think they influenced this in any way. 

The SPL clubs wanted Rangers in the second tier for their own self interest. Did the SPL fans want that?

The SFL fans wanted a 16 team top division. Did they get that?

The TV companies are the people who were pulling the strings. They made it absolutely crystal clear that Rangers , in whatever form, had to be included in the deal.

At the end of the day the correct decision was reached. Other clubs that walked away from their debt were not punished in the same way which is shameful but I can live with that. I would hope in the future any club who runs up exorbitant debt then simply walks away from it receives the same punishment as Rangers but I doubt it very much 

[BobWilliamson]

13 minutes ago, nsr said:

They see everything as a life and death struggle against the forces of Timothy and Popery. If something bad happens to Rangers, it's because "Them" are behind it. Not because Rangers did something stupid or illegal.

Oldco did something illegal? You should report them to the authorities then.

I am pretty sure there have been no criminal charges brought against Oldco owners

[BobWilliamson]

8 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

Of course he is, and given that they will go unpunished for it, why wouldn't he be?

Unpunished? I've had to visit Cowdenbeath Ffs!! 

[strichener]

Just now, coprolite said:

 

You are confusing their reason for using it with how they used it.

I agree that there would be no real reason for using the trust the way they did absent the tax benefit but that doesn't mean the use was illegal.

if i do up old cars and sell them legitemately on ebay but don't tell hmrc, it isn't using ebay to sell cars that is illegal.

How they used it was their reason for using it.   Do you think that Rangers were looking to EBTs to allow them to make discretionary  payments of because Paul Baxendale-Walker told them that they could avoid paying tax?  The two things are not being confused and you can be sure that Rangers would not have used EBTs if they did not see any tax advantages.

OT:   If you have not registered as self-employed with HMRC then the process of selling cars on e-bay as a trade (regardless of your tax intentions) is illegal.

[coprolite]

Helping hand? Like when the SFA went against a UEFA directive and closed a transfer window early so we missed out on signing players.
Like when the club were voted out the top flight?
The other clubs benefited financially to the TV deal that was only in place if Rangers were involved. Rangers received next to nothing.
Like withholding Rangers license to play so the club could play no pre season friendliest.
I am glad my club were punished the way they were as we , the support, can look back and say we did it on our own. We asked for nothing and we got nothing. 
It is utterly laughable supporters of the other clubs think they influenced this in any way. 
The SPL clubs wanted Rangers in the second tier for their own self interest. Did the SPL fans want that?
The SFL fans wanted a 16 team top division. Did they get that?
The TV companies are the people who were pulling the strings. They made it absolutely crystal clear that Rangers , in whatever form, had to be included in the deal.
At the end of the day the correct decision was reached. Other clubs that walked away from their debt were not punished in the same way which is shameful but I can live with that. I would hope in the future any club who runs up exorbitant debt then simply walks away from it receives the same punishment as Rangers but I doubt it very much 

salty salty tears.


delicious

[Romeo]

7 minutes ago, BobWilliamson said:

the same punishment as Rangers

What punishment was that then?

[williemillersmoustache]

2 minutes ago, BobWilliamson said:

Oldco did something illegal? You should report them to the authorities then.

I am pretty sure there have been no criminal charges brought against Oldco owners

Other than, you know, Craig Whyte you dribbling fucking rocket.

With this in mind I'll refrain from comment on the previous wordsmash you vomited up a moment ago. You've been punished enough.

[strichener]

6 minutes ago, BobWilliamson said:

blah, blah, blah

 I would hope in the future any club who runs up exorbitant debt then simply walks away from it receives the same punishment as Rangers but I doubt it very much 

There is a good change that the New Rangers may be the first to let's us see if this is the case.

[wastecoatwilly]

The SFA  are a law unto themselves they are just as guilty as rangers they put their heads in the sand for over 10 years and done nothing
The SPL are the clubs and let it happen for over 10 years and done nothing
The SFA and the SPL can look in the mirror and point the finger of blame

[wastecoatwilly]

11 minutes ago, BobWilliamson said:

Helping hand? Like when the SFA went against a UEFA directive and closed a transfer window early so we missed out on signing players.

Like when the club were voted out the top flight?

The other clubs benefited financially to the TV deal that was only in place if Rangers were involved. Rangers received next to nothing.

Like withholding Rangers license to play so the club could play no pre season friendliest.

I am glad my club were punished the way they were as we , the support, can look back and say we did it on our own. We asked for nothing and we got nothing. 

It is utterly laughable supporters of the other clubs think they influenced this in any way. 

The SPL clubs wanted Rangers in the second tier for their own self interest. Did the SPL fans want that?

The SFL fans wanted a 16 team top division. Did they get that?

The TV companies are the people who were pulling the strings. They made it absolutely crystal clear that Rangers , in whatever form, had to be included in the deal.

At the end of the day the correct decision was reached. Other clubs that walked away from their debt were not punished in the same way which is shameful but I can live with that. I would hope in the future any club who runs up exorbitant debt then simply walks away from it receives the same punishment as Rangers but I doubt it very much 

all a consequence of being liquidated as a club