SodjesSixteenIncher Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Why are we getting all pessimistic? This will help them get through to the end of the season but it doesn't address the reason they're in admin. They have something like £20m to find and another £50-75m if they lose the case. The fact remains there are only two outcomes here - a) CVA and years of difficulty paying off a massive debt whilst most of their income streams have been outsourced. b) Liquidation and we can all remind them for years that there history is gone. Sorry I forgot about c) Wealthy Arab chips in with £75-100m to save them. Theres more chance of Scarlet Johansson paying £75m for exclusive access to my cock than option C, so lets relax. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Remember the stand up guy gave personal guarantees to get the Ticketus money. I think Mr. Whyte will need the administrators himself shortly, or a good lawyer. Despite what Duff & Phelps are saying, I think Whyte will make money out of this. He still has some locus in the club and I'm sure could and would mount legal challenges to (as he sees it) protect his interests. It will be in everyone else's interests to wrap up all outstanding legal matters ASAP and probably someone will throw him some cash to get him out the way and not to drag the matter on. Of course if this happens we probably won't hear about it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) If I borrow money from you to pay a third party and then I rip you off would you come after me or the third party? Incidentally is there any evidence that the money was paid by "Craig Whyte" and not "Rangers PLC"?I can't understand why you think Rangers will be able to get away with defrauding Ticketus. Edited March 9, 2012 by Baxter Parp 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 Why are we getting all pessimistic? This will help them get through to the end of the season but it doesn't address the reason they're in admin. They have something like £20m to find and another £50-75m if they lose the case. The fact remains there are only two outcomes here - a) CVA and years of difficulty paying off a massive debt whilst most of their income streams have been outsourced. b) Liquidation and we can all remind them for years that there history is gone. Sorry I forgot about c) Wealthy Arab chips in with £75-100m to save them. Theres more chance of Scarlet Johansson paying £75m for exclusive access to my cock than option C, so lets relax. I asked the same thing earlier - but it seems we're on the way to Rangers carrying on as if nothing has happened. Or not. Maybees aye, maybees naw. I wonder what the stand-up guy's next move will be. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Rangers will be able to get away with defrauding Ticketus. In what way have Rangers defrauded Ticketus? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madball Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 If I borrow money from you to pay a third party and then I rip you off would you come after me or the third party? I'd have thought it would be a similar scenario to a stolen car being sold on... The police/insurers would retrieve the asset from the person now in possession of it illegaly, and the person who bought it (assisted by police) would seek to the purchase price from those who sold it. In the Rangers scenario that would mean the club holding onto the tickets... with Craig Whyte being on the spike for the money given it was a deal done prior to his takover. However retrieving the money could get murky as Craig Whyte could legitimately say that £18m of it is sitting in the bank accounts of Lloyds and may seek to freeze the funds there. That could result in Lloyds responding by saying that the £18m is still very much Rangers debt. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 I'd have thought it would be a similar scenario to a stolen car being sold on... The police/insurers would retrieve the asset from the person now in possession of it illegaly, and the person who bought it (assisted by police) would seek to the purchase price from those who sold it. In the Rangers scenario that would mean the club holding onto the tickets... with Craig Whyte being on the spike for the money given it was a deal done prior to his takover. However retrieving the money could get murky as Craig Whyte could legitimately say that £18m of it is sitting in the bank accounts of Lloyds and may seek to freeze the funds there. That could result in Lloyds responding by saying that the £18m is still very much Rangers debt. From the ticketus website - if this makes anything any clearer, possibly point '2' is relevant? Any (reputable) lawyers on P&B? Ticketus first entered a ticket purchase agreement with Rangers Football Club in 2009 when the Club was owned by Sir David Murray. The agreement was for Ticketus to purchase some of the Club’s future season tickets in advance at a discounted price, which the Club would then resell at the intended sale price. Ticketus’ agreement is with Rangers Football Club plc as the entity which originally owned the tickets. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drooper Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 My arse it does. Of course it does. If Rangers dropped to the 3rd division of the SFL, do you think their projected ST sales would have been enough to cover the £24M? Ticketus took a punt on that alone. Caveat emptor applied even at that stage. They were speculating to accumulate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearwithme Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 If a shady geezer like Whyte has exposed himself in any way I'll be very surprised. Jeezo. He might be a pervert as well? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 The Rangers support did do something...They sold out, more or less , the 2 home games we have had. They have pledged millions to a fund...OK i haven't pledged anything as i wouldn't trust Dingwall and his ilk to run a fucking raffle but i am sure if a share issue is offered by the new owners it will be well backed*. The Blue Knights are all Rangers supporters and they are about to pledge millions to help the club. There is a protest tonight at Ibrox planned. Not sure how many will turn up after the news today but there is 1 problem..What and who would we be protesting against? There has been so many twists and turns we have not had a clue who was doing what and why. The celtic support had a clear enemy..the 3 families that had held them back for years. While this has been going on They have also planned to travel through to help out Dunfermline at the Pars v St Mirren game. Again no need now as i believe most of that bill has been paid *...The last share offer was not backed as Murray ran up that huge debt and we were not going to bail him out. He was warned by those on the board at the time the debt was getting to the unmanageable stage but he kept spending. The Rangers support have never been great at mobilising themself...There is a planned boycott of Tannadice. Don't ask me why as i have no idea what reasoning lies behind it. They ones going up to protest are threatening to form a picket line and daring Rangers fans with tickets to cross it So Rangers sold out two games - which most people would expect a club with your fan base to do anyway, especially when one of those games is against Hearts Rangers fans pledged millions to a fund - how much money actually changed hands? It's very easy to say you will give money, much harder to actually get hold of it. The Blue Knights - also known as the consortium headed by two guys who were on the board when David Murray got them in the sh*t. One of whom is being done for tax evasion in South Africa. They sound like great guys Again on the protests? "Travelling" to help Dunfermline. Forgive my cyncism, but I wonder how many of those people will actually be travelling to Fife, and how many are already there. And boycotting Dundee United. Yes, how dare they ask for the money they are owed. And how dare they sell the tickets themselves to make sure they actually get paid. Scum of the highest order! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I'd have thought it would be a similar scenario to a stolen car being sold on... The police/insurers would retrieve the asset from the person now in possession of it illegaly, and the person who bought it (assisted by police) would seek to the purchase price from those who sold it. Actually, a lot depends on how you bought it. Interestingly, ex-Ostrogoth Iain Ferguson was the subject of a case I studied at University. He bought a car for 5 grand from someone in a disused car park or something and tried to pretend shock that it might have been stolen! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 In what way have Rangers defrauded Ticketus? Either Whyte was able to represent Rangers PLC or he wasn't. If he wasn't, Ticketus get their money back, the bank pays their money back. If he was, then the deals still stand. SImple. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Why are we getting all pessimistic? This will help them get through to the end of the season but it doesn't address the reason they're in admin. They have something like £20m to find and another £50-75m if they lose the case. The fact remains there are only two outcomes here - a) CVA and years of difficulty paying off a massive debt whilst most of their income streams have been outsourced. b) Liquidation and we can all remind them for years that there history is gone. Sorry I forgot about c) Wealthy Arab chips in with £75-100m to save them. Theres more chance of Scarlet Johansson paying £75m for exclusive access to my cock than option C, so lets relax. But option B stinks. If thats all that comes out of years of, alleged, cheating, not paying taxes, not paying other clubs and going into admin with a 10 point deduction and then eventual liquidation, it will be a sad, sad day for scottish football. Despite what Duff & Phelps are saying, I think Whyte will make money out of this. He still has some locus in the club and I'm sure could and would mount legal challenges to (as he sees it) protect his interests. It will be in everyone else's interests to wrap up all outstanding legal matters ASAP and probably someone will throw him some cash to get him out the way and not to drag the matter on. Of course if this happens we probably won't hear about it. Theres mention on one of the BBC articles that one of the companies who've made a claim against this money sitting in the solicitors account is part From the ticketus website - if this makes anything any clearer, possibly point '2' is relevant? Any (reputable) lawyers on P&B? Ticketus first entered a ticket purchase agreement with Rangers Football Club in 2009 when the Club was owned by Sir David Murray. The agreement was for Ticketus to purchase some of the Club’s future season tickets in advance at a discounted price, which the Club would then resell at the intended sale price. Ticketus’ agreement is with Rangers Football Club plc as the entity which originally owned the tickets. But isnt the question mark over whether or not Whyte had the authority to sell something on behalf of Rangers PLC? If its found he didnt, its hard to see how Ticketus could have any claim against Rangers. Especially, if the money never went near the clubs accounts, which is what D&F said earlier in administration, didnt they? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Either Whyte was able to represent Rangers PLC or he wasn't. If he wasn't, Ticketus get their money back, the bank pays their money back. If he was, then the deals still stand. SImple. Why would they get their money back if Whyte wasnt able to represent Rangers? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londoner Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Of the "millions" pledged by the hoarde, how much of it is actually their benefits, paid for by legitimate taxpayer's money? I'd imagine the GDP of the hoarde will be 70% less than the UK's average, with a credit rating on par with Greece. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Sensible Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I know the 'other' clubs want to split all gate money but that is just never going to happen no matter how much you want it and especially with the number of season ticket holders at the OF. What the SPL could introduce is a “tax” on income, say a 20% tax. This would include income not just from gates but commercial, sponsorship, champions league income, etc. That “tax” would be put into the pot along with any money that the SPL generates itself, eg TV money, sponsorship, etc. That pot then gets distributed relatively equitably amongst the SPL clubs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 But isnt the question mark over whether or not Whyte had the authority to sell something on behalf of Rangers PLC? If its found he didnt, its hard to see how Ticketus could have any claim against Rangers. Especially, if the money never went near the clubs accounts, which is what D&F said earlier in administration, didnt they? So if he obtained the Ticketus money through false means, does that mean the Lloyds' debt may still exist? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 So if he obtained the Ticketus money through false means, does that mean the Lloyds' debt may still exist? I guess thats what BP is suggesting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Why would they get their money back if Whyte wasnt able to represent Rangers? Why not? At the time there was no question that he was able to represent Rangers and the deal was made in good faith. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Sensible Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I’m assuming that all the players who have taken pay cuts will now have clauses in their contracts that allow them to move for free in the summer? Goodbye then to any transfer fees for Davis, McGregor, etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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