Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[KeeperDee]

I agree. There is no way they will liquidate at this stage in the season. It only adds to their problems.

Why is your avatar Evelyn Waugh?

Besides that, how the buns dead yet?

[No8.]

My dug knows more about this than Alex Thomson

[MEADOWXI]

Even right at the end it's a total OF stitch up...can't liquidate until after the last battle of the bigots. Less than 24 hours after that's out of the way let proceedings start. Pathetic.

Need this seasons Sky money - they would have been very cross with all of Scotland and Murdoch would have ordered the sacrifice of all our first born if he did not get his 4 bigot-fest bonanzas this or any other season - or that is my understanding of the TV deal.

Edited April 30, 2012 by MEADOWXI

[Spain]

I've changed my mind on all of this. I would like Rangers to make it to the end of the season, purely to stop Celtic setting the record for largest winning margin in any league in the history of Scottish Football. They're 21 ahead of Rangers at the moment, 29 ahead of Motherwell, and the record is currently 23 (set by Hibs in the 1st, Livi in the 2nd and East Fife in the 3rd). Of course, this is purely because County are currently 24 ahead in the first right now and about to set the record ourselves

[ray_of_licht]

My dug knows more about this than Alex Thomson

To be fair it seems that most dogs might know more about this than any given journalist.

[Homer Thompson]

My dug knows more about this than Alex Thomson

Oooo, a Rangers fan who doesnt like Alex Thomson

[Spain]

I expect this whole "liquidation ball rolling" rumour is a publicity stunt ahead of their appeal being rejected today, along with the SPL sanction announcements.

"If you go against us, we're done" kind of thing.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Spain

[FrugalNory]

... Murdoch would have ordered the sacrifice of all our first born if he did not get his 4 bigot-fest bonanzas this or any other season - or that is my understanding of the TV deal.

Allegedly Murdoch knows nothing of such an arrangment. It was the doing of a subordinate of his that worked in complete isolation.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

The league Table without results against Rangers

Team          Pld  W  D  L  F  A Pts  GD
Celtic         31 26  3  2 70 13  81 +57
Motherwell     32 17  7  8 47 34  58 +13
Dundee Utd     32 13 11  8 56 40  50 +16
St Johnstone   32 14  7 11 42 39  49  +3
Hearts         31 13  6 12 40 30  45 +10

Aberdeen       32  9 11 12 32 36  38  -4
Kilmarnock     32  8 13 11 39 55  37 -16
St Mirren      32  7 14 11 33 45  35 -12
Inverness CT   32  8  8 16 37 52  32 -15
Hibernian      32  6  9 17 34 57  27 -23
Dunfermline    32  5  9 18 37 66  24 -29

[Spain]

Allegedly Murdoch knows nothing of such an arrangment. It was the doing of a subordinate of his that worked in complete isolation.

Does it actually make any real difference to Sky though? They've already got their subscriptions, they'd only be losing out on ad revenue.

[Gaspode]

I really don't like the sound of this, but it sound very realistic.....New Blog Post by the Scots Law Bloke (I know it's long and wordy, but if you can't be arsed with it all the BOLD bits are the jist of it)

Rangers’ Great Escape – The Bill Miller Plan? Or Speculation Based on a Careless Word?

“If it‘s a newco with a CVA on a side route then they can take control by 11 May.”

This line, being a quote from David Whitehouse at the end of the piece in Scotland on Sunday yesterday about the Rangers bids, got me thinking. I fully expect that I am making a mountain out of not even a molehill here, so I offer everything I write below with the caveat that there is no concrete evidence to prove this is the plan, other than my own suspicions.........If it is correct, then it is cunning plan of which Baldrick himself would be proud!

———————————————

Words are important. A legal training means that you are attuned, at least in theory, to the finest nuance in a word or phrase. It is reminiscent of the skills taught at High School for practical criticism of poetry and prose in English. What did the writer mean by that word? What connotation was he looking to create in the reader’s mind? Why say one thing, when another word might have been equally valid?

However, in real life, whilst important, many factors can get in the way of a careful analysis of what someone says or writes. When talking the precision one expects in writing might not be present. If asked a question, one might misunderstand it, leading to an incorrect answer, which fails to convey the intended meaning.

Taking all that into account, I was greatly intrigued by Mr Whitehouse’s quote mentioned above, which has got me thinking.

Mr Whitehouse made the above reply after saying that, if a straight CVA for the existing Rangers took place, this would be in effect for the start of next season.

But the newco with CVA on a side route has a very specific date added to it.

It is assumed that this is a reference to Bill Miller’s “incubator company” idea. .................This is an involved process - So why mention 11th May?

The last SPL game for Rangers this season is on Sunday 13th May, at St Johnstone. Therefore the reference to 11th May must be taken, I think, as meaning that the deal can be done and implemented before the season’s end.

But surely, one might ask, how can newco organise all of the registration transfers and other formalities, such as the SPL share and club licences etc in only two days? Indeed, does transfer of all the assets to a newco before the season ends not in fact result in “Rangers” not completing the season?

Here is where The Sting and The Real Hustle come in to play. The best scams or ruses (and for the avoidance of doubt I am not suggesting any illegality on the part of Mr Miller or D&P, or indeed anyone else) come when what is being done is in plain sight...............

How Might It Work?

Let’s say that the deal can be done so that, on 11th May, the assets of Rangers Football Club PLC are passed over to “Rangers Incubator Ltd”. For the avoidance of doubt, there is no such company, at least under that name!

Let’s say that the deal concludes late on the Friday, once the SPL and SFA offices, and the courts, have closed for the weekend.

What happens on the Sunday lunchtime? Here is the key.

In this scenario, “Rangers” turn up in Perth and run out onto the pitch for the kick-off!

In that event, would the SPL spend the Friday night and Saturday trying to stop the game taking place? After all, it will be the same players, in the same strips, with the same fans. Would the SPL want to see several thousand Rangers fans arriving in Perth on a Sunday lunchtime, some expecting it to be perhaps the last game ever played by their team, but most rejoicing at the “rescue” carried out by Mr Miller?

Would the SPL want to declare that the match should not be played, thus causing the jubilant fans to feel that they, and their club, were being victimised again by the football authorities?

Might public order considerations come into play, and Tayside Police decide that the game should go ahead, rather than having to turn away the fans at the gate, the stadium being closed?

Would St Johnstone want to be seen as complicit in ending Rangers’ existence, because, if the newco was not allowed to play, that would mean that Rangers had expired before the end of the season, and thus its record would be expunged. Even if unfairly, St Johnstone would not want to be seen as partly responsible by closing the doors in Rangers’ faces.

The game gets played therefore, for all the reasons mentioned above.

So What – How Does that help Mr Miller and Rangers?

This is the clever part. If newco were allowed to play at Perth, and in doing so, as it is the same Rangers, in terms of players, staff, strip and fans, then newco would be slipping directly into oldco’s shoes and effectively claiming to own all of the assets, including the points accumulated throughout the season to date. This would be an attempt to blow a hole in the various regulations, rules and legalities which might be seen as blocking the way.

As far as the players are concerned, the TUPE Regulations would transfer over employment contracts and rights to the newco.

If the SPL decided newco should start at zero points, that still would not mean relegation, as a team in the top six cannot be relegated, even if its pints total is passed by teams in the bottom six.

I suspect the nucleus of this plan though is that newco IS, for footballing purposes, oldco.

If the SPL permits the game to be played on that basis, then, in effect, Mr Miller has won.

Because if the SPL tried to enforce its rules for season 2012-2013 by referring to issues of registrations etc, Mr Miller could correctly say that the SPL had already admitted newco, by allowing the referee to have the Perth game kick off at all.

Therefore, the argument runs, as newco ended the season as “Rangers” it is entitled to start the new season as “Rangers” too! As newco is not in administration, and indeed as newco might not have existed when oldco committed the offences for which the SFA, so far, has levied punishment, how can newco be penalised with, for example, a transfer embargo?

You might say that Mr Miller could not argue that, for one purpose newco is Rangers, but for another it is not, but that seems the logical approach (even if inherently illogical) to take. It is akin to an accused pleading that they have an alibi, failing which self-defence!

The key to a good scam is to have a willing victim. If, in fact, the outcome of the scam is something which the victim would be quite happy to achieve, then it makes it even easier to pull off. Mr Whitehouse has referred to Mr Miller being “nearly there” with his bid, following a weeks worth of discussions with the football authorities.

Rather than the frankly impossible request for written confirmation that oldco Rangers would not be penalised, could it be that some variation of this plan has been floated to the SPL? After all, how long does it take to say “please confirm Rangers will not be penalised next season?” and to receive the simple answer “No”.

It seems clear that, if Scottish football had its way, a “Rangers” would stay in the SPL. Financial interests trump morals. As a wise man once said “Principles are nice, but who pays for them!” Another wise man of my acquaintance said “You can’t eat principles!”

Whilst it would be wrong to suggest that the SPL would, or indeed could, give the green light to such a plan in advance, the hypothetical question could be raised, and the hypothetical answer provided which would show how difficult a position the SPL would be in, if it tried, having allowed newco to play a game, to stop it starting next season.

In such a case, if the SPL blocked newco for next season, then in the view of many, I am sure, Neil Doncasters organisation would be up there in the rogues’ gallery along with the SFA as being responsible for the “death” of Rangers.

So If This Happens, Will there be a Merger in the Future?

No. Why should there be!

If this plan succeeded, then newco would be in the SPL. It might not have a European licence for three years, as a newco, but would have no other penalty.

Oldco would have Mr Miller’s purchase price, but as I have mentioned ad nauseam, I don’t see this as producing anything for unsecured creditors. Therefore there cannot be a successful CVA and therefore there is a winding up of oldco.

However, that will not matter, as newco will have emerged claiming to own the history. In a sale of assets to a newco, Craig Whyte, as 85% owner, cannot block the sale.

In a sale of assets like this, it is very hard for a creditor to block the process either. D&P can clearly show that there has been very little real interest, and Mr Miller’s offer is the best they are going to get. The valuations of the fixed assets at over £100,000,000 are irrelevant.

The existing Rangers Football Club PLC disappears, but so what?

Won’t Someone Object to this?

Who would have the will and locus to do so?

Creditors of oldco cannot stop it. The administrators have the power to sell the assets of the company in administration.

The team relegated from the SPL might but I assume that the SPL might “sweeten” the parachute package to allow it to go through. I recall this happened some years ago in English Rugby Union where the team which won promotion was refused access to the top division, in return for a sizeable payment.

Would the SPL or SFA object? They might find this to be a convenient solution to a thorny problem.

Can other SPL teams do so? Probably not in enough numbers to stop it.

Is It Legal and is it Right?

If the limited companies involved, namely the SPL and the SFA, permit it, then, subject to UEFA involvement, it can happen. After all, the SFA and SPL can alter their rules if they wish and if they have sufficient consent.

The numerous legal and regulatory issues could be got round if the will was there.

Would it be right?

It would save a vital part of Scotland’s heritage, as Mr Salmond described it, and would rescue the “most successful football team in world football”. We have already seen all the arguments deployed regarding the financial “benefits” to Scottish football of Rangers surviving.

I suspect that many however would view it as a betrayal of sporting integrity that would ruin Scottish football for ever.

Conclusion - As I said at the start, this idea might be a complete flight of fancy. It might have no bearing at all on reality. However, it seems to be a credible explanation of why Mr Whitehouse mentioned 11th May.

Posted by Paul McConville (with tinfoil hat and copy of the Warren Report by my side.)

Edited April 30, 2012 by Gaspode

[7-2]

Allegedly Murdoch knows nothing of such an arrangment. It was the doing of a subordinate of his that worked in complete isolation.

Whilst I appreciate your excellent jibe, I'd be amazed if Murdoch had actually heard of Rangers. I'd have stretched that to Scotland had I not seen the pictures of Rangers apologist Salmond grovelling to him.

[Hearts Daft]

If any of that actually occurred I'd hand my season ticket back.

[Sting777]

SSN now reporting that the Blue Shites have submitted revised bid No 666

[7-2]

I really don't like the sound of this, but it sound very realistic.....New Blog Post by the Scots Law Bloke (I know it's long and wordy, but if you can't be arsed with it all the BOLD bits are the jist of it)

Would St Johnstone want to be seen as complicit in ending Rangers' existence, because, if the newco was not allowed to play, that would mean that Rangers had expired before the end of the season, and thus its record would be expunged. Even if unfairly, St Johnstone would not want to be seen as partly responsible by closing the doors in Rangers' faces.

Sad to say that Saints Chairman Steve Brown would kick the match off himself if it meant Rangers surviving.

[pozbaird]

SSN now reporting that the Blue Shites have submitted revised bid No 666

Impossible. Haudit & Daudit definitely said their last deadline was for everyone's best and final offer. What have the Blue Knights been keeping up their sleeves? Are they throwing in a free pen?

[Claymores]

Impossible. Haudit & Daudit definitely said their last deadline was for everyone's best and final offer. What have the Blue Knights been keeping up their sleeves? Are they throwing in a free pen?

Probably 'upped' their offer by doing a currency conversion................they're now offering 6 million Euros

[ribzanelli]

Surely newco Rangers would be in breach of the rules at Perth in such a hypothetical situation by using players who have not been registered with the SPL/SFA as playing for the new team?

[Stu]

Great stuff from Leggo today http://leggoland2.blogspot.co.uk/ That nasty "Republic of Ireland born Tom English" has been writing bad things about them.

[LongTimeLurker]

Surely newco Rangers would be in breach of the rules at Perth in such a hypothetical situation by using players who have not been registered with the SPL/SFA as playing for the new team?

The whole point of the blog entry is that they would be too scared to do anything. I think the flaw in the guy's reasoning is that HMRC are not likely to want a precedent to be set where a club could evade its debts in the manner described especially given Rangers were the test case for EBTs.