Homer Thompson Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I had hoped, like many of us, that today was the day. That was until I read P&B this morning and the scary scenario put forward in the post about/from the Scots Law Bloke on page 685. That left me a little dismayed as it offers the worst possible outcome, and would have given the bears the chance to laugh and claim the SPL had been potentially outmanoeuvred all along. However, the delay on the part of the SPL chairmen today does a few handy things in my humble opinion. Delaying the vote does, as someone pointed out, have a 'lets see if they die first' ring to it. It also means that regardless - if they voted in favour of the proposed changes or against them, then Rangers would know how to play their next card in terms of fielding players under a NEWCO at St. Johnstone, how they could use the precedent to unlock the chains they have around them at present and could have begun planning for that straight away. Now, possibly because the knew they might lose as 10-2, the best possible course of action may prove to have been to abstain/postpone the vote to exert pressure on Celtic, not just Rangers. This appears to me to be the clever vote if you know you're not able to win outright and one of your opponents is one the ropes, its a tag team event and the clock is ticking down. The analogy I'd give is a boxing match with the SPL 10 in one corner and the OF in the other. It might not be a knockout yet, but we can win on points in the end if we keep the fight going long enough. The delay now also puts Sandy Jardines 'we'll see what they do first and then get them back' agenda right off the topic list for at least a week. It puts the pressure back on his lot, they can't plan their moves and target anyone if nothing is being done to them. The fever driven nonsense that was stirred up to deflect from the real issue has been put to bed for now. They can't announce what 'sanctions' the Ibrox hordes can unleash until they know where they stand, so it effectively relegates that argument for the time being and focuses the debate back onto the real issue of them being fucked and having cheated. IF someone at the SPL/SFA has been as astute in their summation as our learned colleague and perhaps arrived at the same apocalyptic conclusion where Rangers would almost get off unpunished, then delaying the vote is the single best tactical move the SPL could have made. Time and money are Rangers greatest enemies right now and they are fast running out of both. Leaving them in limbo for at least another week might just be the start of the SPL fighting back. By continually delaying a set of known outcomes it means Rangers, not the SPL or SFA will have to show their hand first. Or maybe I'm an eternal optimist!!!!! Just a thought! Thatsa very good point and one Im surprised no-one else picked up on. With all the rhetoric and bluster going on last week about the "Hampden 3" it seem to slip everyones attention that nothing actually happened, on the administration front. Apparently if Rangers go bust before the end of the season, no team is demoted. If it's after, the bottom SPL team gets demoted and the 2nd Div one team gets promoted.. The first bit is definitely true, as that is specifically stated in the SPL rules. Has the second bit been confirmed, or is it just speculation based on someone interpreting the rules that way? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archie guevara Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Really? What makes you say that? If Rangers were to go into liquidation (and weren't voted back into the SPL) I would expect the bottom team to survive relegation rather than promoting 2 from the 1st. Naw. Since Thistle were relegated despite Caley not having a compliant stadium by the due date and there being rules against ground sharing in place at the time, the rules have been tightened up to the extent that there should always be relegation. As long as it's a diddy club and not Aberdeen , Motherwel or (!)Hibs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) Naw. Since Thistle were relegated despite Caley not having a compliant stadium by the due date and there being rules against ground sharing in place at the time, the rules have been tightened up to the extent that there should always be relegation. As long as it's a diddy club and not Aberdeen , Motherwel or (!)Hibs. Not in the case of a team "failing to fulfil its fixtures" though. If Rangers are liquidated before the end of the season, the rules clearly state that the number of relegation places will be reduced. edited to add Club ceasing to play and be a member of the League H5 If any Club in the League ceases to operate or to be member of the League for any reason, its playing record in the League may be expunged and the number of relegation places from the League shall be reduced accordingly. Edited April 30, 2012 by Mr X 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Araminta Moonbeam QC Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 2pm meeting discussed NEWCO with Miller as likely owner. Enough £ to keep trading IA until end of May. According to Twitter.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makepeace Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I had hoped, like many of us, that today was the day. That was until I read P&B this morning and the scary scenario put forward in the post about/from the Scots Law Bloke on page 685. That left me a little dismayed as it offers the worst possible outcome, and would have given the bears the chance to laugh and claim the SPL had been potentially outmanoeuvred all along. However, the delay on the part of the SPL chairmen today does a few handy things in my humble opinion. Delaying the vote does, as someone pointed out, have a 'lets see if they die first' ring to it. It also means that regardless - if they voted in favour of the proposed changes or against them, then Rangers would know how to play their next card in terms of fielding players under a NEWCO at St. Johnstone, how they could use the precedent to unlock the chains they have around them at present and could have begun planning for that straight away. Now, possibly because the knew they might lose as 10-2, the best possible course of action may prove to have been to abstain/postpone the vote to exert pressure on Celtic, not just Rangers. This appears to me to be the clever vote if you know you're not able to win outright and one of your opponents is one the ropes, its a tag team event and the clock is ticking down. The analogy I'd give is a boxing match with the SPL 10 in one corner and the OF in the other. It might not be a knockout yet, but we can win on points in the end if we keep the fight going long enough. The delay now also puts Sandy Jardines 'we'll see what they do first and then get them back' agenda right off the topic list for at least a week. It puts the pressure back on his lot, they can't plan their moves and target anyone if nothing is being done to them. The fever driven nonsense that was stirred up to deflect from the real issue has been put to bed for now. They can't announce what 'sanctions' the Ibrox hordes can unleash until they know where they stand, so it effectively relegates that argument for the time being and focuses the debate back onto the real issue of them being fucked and having cheated. IF someone at the SPL/SFA has been as astute in their summation as our learned colleague and perhaps arrived at the same apocalyptic conclusion where Rangers would almost get off unpunished, then delaying the vote is the single best tactical move the SPL could have made. Time and money are Rangers greatest enemies right now and they are fast running out of both. Leaving them in limbo for at least another week might just be the start of the SPL fighting back. By continually delaying a set of known outcomes it means Rangers, not the SPL or SFA will have to show their hand first. Or maybe I'm an eternal optimist!!!!! Just a thought! to be honest when i checked on the bbc website and saw that it was delayed my heart sank a bit. But after reading this post, i think its probably not a bad thing. Another good thing about this is it gives us time as fans to ensure that we get our voices heard to our chairmen regarding what we feel about the proposed changes and what we are prepared to do (ie not go to football anymore), if our feelings are not duly acted on. The letter from the dons trust is the kinda thing that all the spl club ecquivalents need to present to their chairmen. This is the last chance i think for us to get that to happen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Enough £ to keep trading IA until end of May. I think everyone realises that they can continue on until the deferral of the wages stops. Now I've never really worked out the deferral thing as for me it means that those who agreed to it would not only return to their previous salaries but would also recoup the outstanding balance. Is that the case or is it just that they return to their normal salaries only? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceblink Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) They'll be sadly missed - (not for minors) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLrexKO_qNA&feature=relmfu Edited April 30, 2012 by iceblink 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 The first bit is definitely true, as that is specifically stated in the SPL rules. Has the second bit been confirmed, or is it just speculation based on someone interpreting the rules that way? It's been stated as fact by journos on the radio, but until it's announced officially by the SFA/SPL/SFL we'll have to take it as speculative interpretation. They seem to leave enough flexibility in the rules to adjust promotion/relegation criteria to suit themselves. I'm sure it will all become clear when we know whether it is Hibs or Dunfermline's fate they're deciding on.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Araminta Moonbeam QC Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 1335794435[/url]' post='6188887']I think everyone realises that they can continue on until the deferral of the wages stops. Now I've never really worked out the deferral thing as for me it means that those who agreed to it would not only return to their previous salaries but would also recoup the outstanding balance. Is that the case or is it just that they return to their normal salaries only? I thought it was deferral and repayment in full in June. However, they would just become another creditor, no? Happy to be corrected if anyone can remember. It all seems so long ago now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin M Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I think everyone realises that they can continue on until the deferral of the wages stops. Now I've never really worked out the deferral thing as for me it means that those who agreed to it would not only return to their previous salaries but would also recoup the outstanding balance. Is that the case or is it just that they return to their normal salaries only? It is not a deferral - they have taken a (temporary) wage cut. In theory they will return to their normal salaries, but what is more likely if they are still in administration is that the wage cut will continue for those that are not made redundant. It seems likely however that the whole situation will be "resolved" by then - ie they will be liquidated and the players will either go on their merry way or will sign up to Newco United, if there is such a thing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) It's been stated as fact by journos on the radio, but until it's announced officially by the SFA/SPL/SFL we'll have to take it as speculative interpretation. They seem to leave enough flexibility in the rules to adjust promotion/relegation criteria to suit themselves. I'm sure it will all become clear when we know whether it is Hibs or Dunfermline's fate they're deciding on.. Has it been stated as fact by any named (and respectable) journalist, or just in anonymous newspaper pieces? I've only seen the latter. Edited April 30, 2012 by craigkillie 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I think everyone realises that they can continue on until the deferral of the wages stops. Now I've never really worked out the deferral thing as for me it means that those who agreed to it would not only return to their previous salaries but would also recoup the outstanding balance. Is that the case or is it just that they return to their normal salaries only? Think they get a share of any transfer fee if they're sold, to make up for the lost earnings.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckinho Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 They'll be sadly missed - (not for minors) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLrexKO_qNA&feature=relmfu Fookin disgraceful - arseholes - no need for that rubbish in our game 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Has it been stated as fact by any named (and respectable) journalist, or just in anonymous newspaper pieces? I've only seen the latter. I have heard it stated as fact on the BBC, and written on their website, but I wouldn't go so far as to label the Sportsound boys respectable journalists. I can't back it up with a linked source anyway. Here's a quote from an anonymous newspaper piece in case anyone hasn't heard the rational behind the theory: According to Scottish Premier League insiders it would be the team finishing second in the First Division rather than the bottom SPL side who would benefit from the Ibrox club being liquidated and demoted.That would mean the Dark Blues' clash with Ayr United on Saturday could ultimately turn into a promotion clincher. With two games left, the Dens Park club are four points clear of Falkirk in third and a win at Somerset Park would secure second place for Barry Smith's men. It is understood that if Rangers are liquidated once the season has finished then the bottom club in the top division — either Dunfermline or Hibs — will still be relegated. Ross County will be promoted as champions but that would leave the SPL with only 11 members, so with any Rangers newco unable to sign players until the transfer window reopens on July 1, the runner-up in the First Division would be asked to make up the numbers. If Rangers go bust before the current campaign ends on May 13 then, under the SPL's Rule H5, there would be no relegation from the top tier. That rule states: ''If any Club in the League ceases to operate or to be member of the League for any reason, its playing record in the League may be expunged and the number of relegation places from the League shall be reduced accordingly.'' However, with administrators Duff & Phelps claiming that the cash won't run out until the end of the season, the prospect of winning promotion — which seemed dead when Ross County won the title a fortnight ago — should inspire Dundee, who have taken just one point from their last three matches. My link 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckinho Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 In the words of Sally - I want to know the names of the numpty who suggested holding off on things today at the SPL... - then again I shouldn't spread hate like that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 That's exactly what I've seen and heard. "According to a source" stuff in tabloids/radio, and a hopeful piece in a local paper. The BBC have an incorrect article on their website stating that someone would be relegated if Rangers went bust during the season, even though the SPL rules state that this is not the case. They even quoted a completely fiction rule to back their piece up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz FFC Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 They'll be sadly missed - (not for minors) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLrexKO_qNA&feature=relmfu Goodness sake. I've seen fans get arrested for standing at Parkhead, Rangers fans come in and destroy the place whist singing about being up to their knees in f**ian blood and the police pretend everything is rosy. It really is just typical police mentality, get an easy arrest and look great, but the Gers get away with murder. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckinho Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) On reviewing the toilet footage, it is probably good that the criminals are captive in one place for at least 90 minutes a week - hang on a minute - they leave after 75... I went to a game in Germany once and the riot squad were terrifying, much more than the Football Co-Ordination Unit methinks - I don't envy them in their job but who can this go by without mention? Haven't we moved on from this rubbish Scotland? Edited April 30, 2012 by Chuckinho 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig24 Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 "If you were looking at it on principal, Rangers should go to the Third Division if they go into liquidation, there is no doubt about that. " Roger Mitchell - You didn't need to express any more opinions at that point! http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/17892984 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lofarl Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Call me cynical but I can smell a big fat compromise on the horizon. The SPL know that they need to punish Rangers. They know they can't punish them to hard as we have all heard, we need a super strong Rangers. Duffman also knows that Rangers will need to face some sort of punishment for the sake of sporting integrity too. So here's a wee compromise plan. Rangers are liquidated, either in the next week or so or at seasons end. Now they can't let a newco back into the SPL. But they can't have Der Big Hoose team in division 3 either. So I think they will be liquidated before seasons end. So they lose all points and are sent down to division 1, where they can shaft their creditors and start as a newco in division 1. They will walk it in that league and be back up right away. Now as regards to SKY. In the interest of broadcasting rights, the ugly sisters will be drawn to play each other in both cup comps. This will be most favourable to every other club as it gets one of them out of the way. Plus there could be 2 challenge matches at say the start and the end of the season. So there you go 4 OF games a year on SKY, Der Rangers get off lightly and no one is really happy. It's the essence of compromise. Also I will apologise in advance if this post shows up as a wall of text. I do write paragraphs but the iPad hates this site for some reason. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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