Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[MattBairn]

That's painful to read.

[cyderspaceman]

And another thing.

I keep reading about how "big" a club Rangers is.

WAS!

When this is done they will be just another 'diddy' team.

There will be no tsunami of cash coming in.

( I don't actually like the term 'diddy team', apologies to all.)

[xbl]

Well I'm sorry and I think you should join the RM thread which suggested the Scottish economy would die if Ranjurs went - fortunately there were a few 'sober' Orcs who pointed out that if they didn't blow their cash on the mighty, it'd go to places like Tesco who actually renumerate the public purse by paying taxes.

When Ranjurs die it will be a bonus to my diddy team - some will come to Bayview instead of getting on the bus for a trip to see Govan Utd every 2 weeks. Some will go gardening.

The money doesn't disappear - it gets used in different way.. Are you fearful of the Orcs might not visit away grounds? They were gonna boycott anyway.

1. You'll notice that I SPECIFICALLY said that Scottish football would not die. Yes, some will go to Bayview, but be realistic. If East Fife went under, would you pop along to Raith? If Arbroath went under, I sure as hell wouldn't be going along to Montrose, Brechin, or Forfar games. Given that I live near Stirling now, I might pop along occasionally to see some of the Stirling area teams (Alloa, Shire, Stenny, Albion etc.), but I wouldn't ever become a fan of them. If I was a neutral, I'd probably watch more of the EPL, generally has a better standard of football for the neutral to enjoy.

Money WOULD be lost to the game, as would media coverage. I AM NOT SAYING THAT SCOTTISH FOOTBALL WOULD DIE (capitalised so you notice), but it would get a bit less attention, and be a bit poorer for it.

[FinnesTON]

es another article by Traytor,mibbe reality is (very slowly) starting to creep in

http://www.dailyreco...86908-23895126/

Ok if we take Traytor at his word and the Newco is treated as a total separate entity from Rangers then they don't have SPL membership and no vote on any outcome. They would/should have to apply for SFA/SFL membership.

People like Traytor are self protecting non entities just looking after their readership sales rather than stating the truth.

So if this went down the CVA route would it be ok to punish them or would that be another issue.

It is what we all know as lazy journalism

[Sam Leitch Loyal]

The OF really aren't big news outside of Scotland. No one gives a f**k about them.

How true. Not a word about them in the newspapers here in Warsaw this morning.

[stonedsailor]

Only in your head pal. If the new club with a slightly different name plays in the same shirt at Ibrox ( even in the 3rd div) its the same shower of current buns with their orc fans. Same sh1te different name, like a turd that wont flush for you

Airdrieonians are also dead. Plenty people go and watch Airdrie FC and Im sure they discuss and reminisce of their cup run of 1992 without someone pointing out , 'naw that doesny count that was a completely different seperate entity'

Airdrieonians are not a comparison which can be made, they are Clydebank with a new name and relocation to Airdrie, more akin to MK Dons that dead Rangers.

The highlighted parts of your post are the important parts, if you and your fellow fans decide to follow a club which has bought over Ibrox from the dead Rangers and slightly changed their name like a cheap designer copy from the Barras then I feel sorry for this fledgling Scottish club, it would seem they are doomed from the start.

[chico]

Have BDO made a statement? Think the BBC guys have been tweeting about it.

[ForzaDundee]

hi all! long time lurker who has finally registered. email sent to my club chairman Steve Brown and I have had a reply to say he will get given it.

i would cut and paste it here but every-time i try it is gobbledygook!! eg

Dear Steve,<br style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(245, 245, 255); "><br style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(245, 245, 255); ">I write to you as a 30 year old lifelong fan of

Try pasting it into something like notepad and then copying it again. Should work.

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

Stadium - Be realistic. Ibrox isn't going anywhere. Its a listed building that can't really be used for anything else. HMRC have already said that they want football to continue.

Fans - I'm not saying that they will fill 50,000, but they will certainly have one of the biggest attendances in the SFL. Furthermore, Rangers on their travels will bring more support than a lot of the other div 2/3 clubs, simply because there are more local gloryhunters who will go along. Plus the novelty factor of seeing Rangers humbled will increase home attendances all round. Its a no brainer here imo. In my opinion, Rangers in the league will bump up the home attendances of all division 2 and 3 clubs.

Money - Again, I was thinking from the perspective of what they bring to the league, rather than what they have. Rangers in division 3? More media attention, more spotlight on all the clubs, increased commercial opportunity, increased home fan attendances all round, its an opportunity to get some local people interested in their clubs! Rangers in the league will indirectly bring in more money to the lower league clubs.

Potential - Rangers will always have a core of thousands of fans. More than any other club in the SFL. Even if it dropped to say, 4000 (and I don't believe it will), that is still more than any other club in div 2/3. When they start winning, and bringing in cheap journeymen at a fraction over the wages others can afford means they will, their casual support will come right back again.

What, dropping a team to the lowest level we can manage? There IS precedent for that. As I said, I have a problem if they parachute them into the SPL or SFL 1 or 2, but no problems with bringing them in at the lowest level for them to work their way up.

Isn't that what the SPL would be doing if they let in Rangers continue in the top flight? There are professional football teams below SFL 3. Rangers aren't even members of the SFL so you wouldn't really be dropping them anywhere, you would be giving them an invite to your table. The reasons you give are money, fans and potential (to make money)

SFL fans who are for INVITING Rangers into SFL 3 are worse than the SPL. At least it was an SPL problem that has to be dealt with, your lot seem to be rolling out the red carpet and looking for handouts. If you are against a NewCo in the SPL then you should be against a NewCo in SFL 3. Rangers should start from the real bottom tier.

The Self Furtherance League better stop blocking a pyramid structure as well. Hypocrisy at its finest.

[itzdrk]

hi all! long time lurker who has finally registered. email sent to my club chairman Steve Brown and I have had a reply to say he will get given it.

i would cut and paste it here but every-time i try it is gobbledygook!! eg

Dear Steve,<br style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(245, 245, 255); "><br style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(245, 245, 255); ">I write to you as a 30 year old lifelong fan of

copy it again

instead of ctrl & v, right click and "paste as plain text"

[BELFASTSAINTEE]

my letter;

Dear Steve,

I write to you as a 30 year old lifelong fan of St.Johnstone. After growing up in Germany I moved to Kinross as a 5 year old. My father was at the time a passionate Rangers and football fan but was in no way comfortable with the atmosphere at Ibrox or the commute to games. We visited a few grounds - Dunfermline , Raith Rovers and was taken to St.Johnstone games at Muirton. My dad felt comfortable at St.Johnstone and thats where the love affair started. Many years of Adult+Son season ticket membership in the Ormond Stand followed by the East Stand ( when I was old enough!) . The 1998-99 was a real highlight. We made it to almost every away game and that season will always be my favourite. What a team we had.....

The list of memories of games I attended, and the players who have graced the shirt , goes on and on and on and on and on ...........

The St.Johnstone vs Dundee Utd Cup defeat Semi Final at East End Park.

The 2-1 Cup final defeat to Rangers in 1998.

The Monaco games.

The Vaasa games.

The Airdrie game in beautiful sunshine to win the First Division during the first season of football at McDiarmid Park

Losing the Challenge Cup final to Stranraer.

Soaked to the skin standing in torrential rain behind the goal for 90 minutes at Dens Park for a goalless draw.

Beating Dundee 7-2 on New Years Day.

Beating Aberdeen 5-0 . ( I still have my 5-0 badge )

Travelling to Inverness to only manage a draw against Caledonian FC, and the 3-0 replay victory in Perth in front of a crowd of 10,000.

The reason for writing this is to let you know my feelings about the Rangers situation now that we know liquidation is given followed by a Newco Rangers.

You need to speak with the fans before making a decision. This week I have been looking at online discussions and if 90%+ of the die hard fans of the likes of St.Johnstone, Aberdeen and the other SPL clubs are opposed to Rangers re-entering the SPL then what hope have you got of the wavering fans returning? Even some polls on Rangers websites have 90%+ of Rangers fans wishing to go in to Division 3!

I appreciate the lose of revenue to the club from Rangers absence for at least 3 years ( assuming they go into division 3 and work their way up) but some would be recouped through the extra Dundee derby's (assuming Dundee replace Rangers). Remember the glory days for Scottish football and the national team (Dundee Utd and Aberdeen having European success for example) came when the Old Firm didn't have a duopoly over the Scottish game. Lost revenue - Crowds and revenue in the Scottish game are already at rock bottom - so why not be bold. A return to competitiveness and opportunity for other teams to taste League or Cup success outside of the Old firm stranglehold could lead to increased crowds!! Yes things will be tight. But St.Johnstone are a club built on integrity and balancing the books. We would get through the short term pain and are better placed than most to do so. Who knows for short term pain we may see long term gain.

Its as simple as this;

If St.Johnstone vote No to Newco then my love of all things Saints continues till the day I die.

If St. Johnstone vote Yes to Newco (with or without sanctions) then obviously money is more important than integrity . Its been a hell of a ride . Thanks to your father and to yourself for running the club so well , balancing the books in an era of debt and greed. But with a heavy heart the SPL and St.Johnstone FC will never again see a penny of my hard earned time or money. The European games which are a reward for last season would be my last.

After all your great work in getting fans back , the wrong outcome here could put all that good work to waste before it even gets off the ground!!!

I have stolen the below from a fellow St.Johnstone fan and unlike the above these are not my words.I can not sit by and allow a team who have done all of the below (and i suspect much more more that I cant remember or that is yet to come out) be allowed back into the SPL. They must apply to rejoin at the foot of Division 3 which is exactly what would of already happened was the team in question not Rangers or Celtic.

1) 18 million worth of PAYE not paid.

2) Debt owed to Hearts, Celtic, Dundee Utd, Rapid Vienna amongst others;

3) Four years of season tickets sold off to Ticketus;

4) Trying to sign players whilst in administration (Daniel Cousin anyone);

5) An administration that saw the redundancy of ZERO employees;

6) A transfer ban, subsequently appealed through the courts;

7) The interest of FIFA in the matter;

A war correspondent from C4 becoming deeply involved;

9) An American bidder who was run out of town;

10) McCoist publicly having names of disciplinary committees published so the Rangers mob could try and run them out of town;

11) a CVA proposal offering pennies in the Pound, while the bidder was talking about a 30million transfer budget, signing players from the Euro’s and now Rino Gattuso was set to sign (despite a transfer ban and being in administration;

12) the CVA proposal saying all season ticket money and player sales would go to Green, and not the creditors;

13) The SPL allowing a Newco Rangers to have a vote on whether they get into the SPL or not!

14) NOT ONE HINT OF AN APOLOGY FROM ANY RANGERS FAN, SUPPORTER, FORMER DIRECTOR OR PLAYER.

Please Do the right thing. Integrity is more important than money.

Thanks for taking the time to read my letter.

Kind Regards

belfastsaintee

ps COME ON YOU SAINTS!!!

[welshbairn]

Have BDO made a statement? Think the BBC guys have been tweeting about it.

Tweets

35sChris McLaughlin ‏@BBCchrismclaugBDO: ...once this is done, BDO will determine what can be recovered from the remains of the existing company. #Rangers

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1mChris McLaughlin ‏@BBCchrismclaugBDO: D&P intend to complete transfer of business and assets to new company in the coming days, putting club on more secure footing.

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46mChris McLaughlin ‏@BBCchrismclaugBDO will not comment on whether or not they have legal powers to entertain other offers for #Rangers. More will become clear in coming days.

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56mChris McLaughlin ‏@BBCchrismclaug#Rangers liquidators BDO: we will be looking to protect remaining assets and maximise recoveries for benefit of creditors.

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[sparky88]

Stadium - Be realistic. Ibrox isn't going anywhere. Its a listed building that can't really be used for anything else. HMRC have already said that they want football to continue.

Fans - I'm not saying that they will fill 50,000, but they will certainly have one of the biggest attendances in the SFL. Furthermore, Rangers on their travels will bring more support than a lot of the other div 2/3 clubs, simply because there are more local gloryhunters who will go along. Plus the novelty factor of seeing Rangers humbled will increase home attendances all round. Its a no brainer here imo. In my opinion, Rangers in the league will bump up the home attendances of all division 2 and 3 clubs.

Money - Again, I was thinking from the perspective of what they bring to the league, rather than what they have. Rangers in division 3? More media attention, more spotlight on all the clubs, increased commercial opportunity, increased home fan attendances all round, its an opportunity to get some local people interested in their clubs! Rangers in the league will indirectly bring in more money to the lower league clubs.

Potential - Rangers will always have a core of thousands of fans. More than any other club in the SFL. Even if it dropped to say, 4000 (and I don't believe it will), that is still more than any other club in div 2/3. When they start winning, and bringing in cheap journeymen at a fraction over the wages others can afford means they will, their casual support will come right back again.

What, dropping a team to the lowest level we can manage? There IS precedent for that. As I said, I have a problem if they parachute them into the SPL or SFL 1 or 2, but no problems with bringing them in at the lowest level for them to work their way up.

Fair enough, I can see where you are coming from - in some ways, the way you put it does sound reasonably positive. It's certainly all possible but depends on a number of factors going their way - not least the assumption that the sfl are effectively willing to forfeit a promotion place in order to have rangers there.

It is vital Rangers are treated as per the letter of the law, as set out in the SFA and SPL rule book. If the punishments are not felt severe enough then tough, tighten the laws for future situations. Otherwise, messy legal challenges are there which can threaten the whole of scottish football. Making up ad hoc punishments is not the way to go imo. We, as diddy fans, cannot scream for maintaining the integrity of the SPL and Scottish football then in same breath demand entirely made up punishments. Unless no provision is made for newcos - in which case all bets are off and just f**k rangers royally.

[itzdrk]

hows rangers still a team on here

http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php/topic/178050-remove-from-my-team/page__p__6329222__fromsearch__1#entry6329222

[Sam Leitch Loyal]

Stadium - Be realistic. Ibrox isn't going anywhere. Its a listed building that can't really be used for anything else.

Not true. The main stand cannot be knocked down or have its facade altered but alternate uses are possible as with the stand at Highbury.

[xbl]

Isn't that what the SPL would be doing if they let in Rangers continue in the top flight? There are professional football teams below SFL 3. Rangers aren't even members of the SFL so you wouldn't really be dropping them anywhere, you would be giving them an invite to your table. The reasons you give are money, fans and potential (to make money)

SFL fans who are for INVITING Rangers into SFL 3 are worse than the SPL. At least it was an SPL problem that has to be dealt with, your lot seem to be rolling out the red carpet and looking for handouts. If you are against a NewCo in the SPL then you should be against a NewCo in SFL 3. Rangers should start from the real bottom tier.

The Self Furtherance League better stop blocking a pyramid structure as well. Hypocrisy at its finest.

No. That comparison is ludicrous.

I'm all for a pyramid, but it isn't just the SFL blocking one. HJ I think is a lot better informed on this than me, but there doesn't seem to be all that much desire in the junior leagues to move out of their small ponds. Personally, I'd like to see the SFA take control of the lot and get a pyramid organised. I am for Rangers being bumped into division 3, the lowest level we can really manage, I am not for them being put into the SPL, SFL1, or SFL2.

[BELFASTSAINTEE]

Not true. The main stand cannot be knocked down or have its facade altered but alternate uses are possible as with the stand at Highbury.

a 2 bed flat in the stand at Highbury = £500,000

a 2 bed flat in the stand at ibrox = £??,000

[hutton34]

Plus I wonder how Souness is sleeping knowing the forensic team are going in to look at the finances for the last x number of years. Maybe they will look into some of the many players Souness took to his clubs from Rangers Walters, Tugay, Amoruso, Ferguson, Boumsong

Might be nothing to see, then again.....

[EdTheDuck]

Traynor goes on about the SFA/SPL not commenting.

After being taken to court by Rangers, they have just taken a leaf out of HMRC's book and are keeping schtum so when the hammer falls (not Albertz!), Rangers can't pick it up and hit people about the head with it

Wishfull thinking. If they are keeping quiet it's because they are hoping to shift as many STs as possible before they vote newco into the big league and alienate some of their fans.

They may well impose some punishment on rangers, but it'll be in the SPL

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

Airdrieonians are not a comparison which can be made, they are Clydebank with a new name and relocation to Airdrie, more akin to MK Dons that dead Rangers.

The highlighted parts of your post are the important parts, if you and your fellow fans decide to follow a club which has bought over Ibrox from the dead Rangers and slightly changed their name like a cheap designer copy from the Barras then I feel sorry for this fledgling Scottish club, it would seem they are doomed from the start.

OK. So do you consider Clydebank's history to continue onto Airdrie United. Should honours won by Clydebank be allowed in the Airdrie United trophy case?

If the answer is yes then you also must surely recognise that new Rangers would be entitled to the honours of old Rangers since they will be the same club under the same SFA membership.

Companies don't win honours and have histories clubs do. And clubs are administered by the SFA and not some number at company's house.