Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[Homer Thompson]

Might it now benefit Rangers to vote no to joining the SPL? My understand of this would be that it would be an SPL disciplinary charge, that wouldn't apply to them if they played in the SFL. Might Rangers now be a no vote?

If I remember correctly, the SPL are doing the initial investigation so that the appeal route is to the SFA. Contracts are also registered with the SFA, so I dont think being in the SFL rather than the SPL would get them off the hook.

what does the EBT thing matter now

they can only ban the oldco not the newco

well i guess they can strip trophies from the oldco

Oh god, please no. Can we not go through all this again?

[Florentine_Pogen]

For those lovers of Latin legal terminology, the RTC Blogger lobbed that grenade into Cockwomble's office on the 22nd May.

Neil Doncaster’s intelligence-insulting interview on SSN this week places another few pieces of the jigsaw together as to how plans are shaping up to deal with Rangers’ corporate failure. Other blogs have already dissected this interview very well, so I will not dwell on the details. Instead, we will look at what is shaping up as the plan “to fix” Scottish football.

As we have discussed for several weeks, Doncaster wants Rangers in the SPL regardless of how much they owe HMRC or other football clubs. He wants them in the SPL regardless of whether cheating on a massive scale has occurred or not. Doncaster’s attempt to bluster his way to getting acceptance for the idea that a CVA and a newco-Rangers are the same thing is just stunning in its gall.

Doncaster is a key player in this dance. Therefore, I assume that he has been made aware of the Duff & Phelps plan. His interview this week was simply a crude attempt to blunt the impact of any accusations that might be contained within the BBC Scotland documentary to be aired on Wednesday night at 8pm. Either through an incredible degree of cynicism or playing the role of useful idiot, Doncaster’s cheer leading is key to a plan that will do more to destroy the Scottish Premier League than any loss of income from the temporary absence of a Rangers-type club could ever do.

One must assume that Doncaster is actively delaying the report on the dual contracts. It would take less than twenty minutes for any lawyer to see that there is a prima facie case against Rangers FC. Demonstrating a prima facie does not require looking at every piece of evidence or even getting close to providing proof. It is literally a check that “on the face of it” there appears to be something behind the allegations. Doncaster denies that there is a “go slow” instruction on this investigation. In the fullness of time, it will become clear that something is amiss.

The law firm of Harper McLeod have been hired by the SPL to investigate if a prima facie case against Rangers on the dual contract issue exists. Let me help Harper McLeod out a little.

On 28 July 2001, Rangers played Aberdeen at Pittodrie. Rangers won the game 3-0. Making his league debut that day was a German who would later go on to become General Manager of Bayern Munich, Christian Nerlinger. He also scored one of the goals. That game against Aberdeen marked the first game where the EBT scheme that is the subject of the ‘Big Tax Case’ interfered with the Scottish Premier League.

Harper McLeod should take a look at Nerlinger’s contract filed with the SFA. Next they should obtain Nerlinger’s contract documents and payment history from Rangers FC (IA)’s administrators. Comparing the contract to the payment history alone will expose payments of well in excess of £1 million that are not listed on his SFA-registered contract. There is your prima facie case, Mr. Doncaster. There is no need to investigate any further to demonstrate that Rangers have a case to answer and that an independent inquiry is required.

It seems clear that Doncaster just does not care about the rules. He just wants a Rangers in the SPL next season. My thoughts on how this will most likely end are laid out below.

Talk of a CVA is just window dressing to appease the less realistic element of the Rangers support. Whyte can pledge his shares in the club for £2 safe in the knowledge that a CVA is not going to happen. (Strictly speaking, Whyte himself can always scupper a CVA).

We are heading for a newco of some description. The key point, Mr. Doncaster, is whether Craig Whyte’s floating charge is still meaningful. If it is (and people with more advanced legal training than me cannot find a consensus on whether it will be) Whyte will be content to let this drama unfold. His friends at Duff & Phelps will continue to potter about while reality continues to sink in with the wider Rangers support. In the end, Whyte will play his trump card and call in a receiver who will sell all of Rangers’ assets to a newco for a sum that will go entirely to Whyte- stuffing all of the other creditors. A plan to achieve this outcome would explain a lot of Duff & Phelps’ actions over the last few months.

If Whyte’s floating charge does not support a legitimate debt (and I expect some court drama over this point), then Rangers’ assets will be sold to a newco and the proceeds divided among the creditors. They will be lucky to receive 5p/£ even in this path, but they would not get more in a CVA anyway.

A newco of some form is inevitable. The liquidation of The Rangers Football Club plc is also inevitable. The debate is not over whether the newco will enter Scottish football, but over how. If Doncaster’s dream comes true, and newco-RFC just start playing in the SPL next season without any penalties, then Scottish football is dead.

There are many other possible formulae for a fair outcome. Many Rangers fans want the newco to start in SFL division 3 and play their way to their place in the SPL like anyone else. It is also possible to have the newco pay an “entry fee” over a number of years that would serve as a deterrent to others. It would also serve, to a degree, as compensation for the carnage wrought on the Scottish game by Rangers during the years of Murray’s excesses. There are lots of ways to arrive at a fair outcome. However, the money-men who might own newco-Rangers will not want that and Neil Doncaster has their interests at heart. Sport? Fans? Mere irritations.

________________________________________________________________

Today's announcement surley must be the green light that RTC / Mark Daly have been waiting for to drop the next bomb.

Strap yourself in, Walter, could be a bumpy ride.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Florentine_Pogen

[Kyle]

what does the EBT thing matter now

they can only ban the oldco not the newco

well i guess they can strip trophies from the oldco

The sanctions will apply to the newco - I'm sure it says so in the statement.

[7-2]

See, thats what I love about this saga. There have been days where announcements have been due, we've all built ourselves up in anticipation, the excitement has grown and grown until ... nothing happens.

Then, we have days like today, when nothing was expected, yet we get what could be one of the most important statements of the whole affair.

Indeed. Certainly didn't see this lot coming.

[Forest_Fifer]

So if they win the SPL share transfer vote they'll then get kicked out over EBTs

If they lose the transfer vote they may get into SFL3 (if the SFA allow them to transfer membership - then they get booted by the SFA for the disrepute charge)

And if the SFA don;t allow them to transfer membership then they are completedly gone....

July 4th - Independence from Orcs Day

[Kyle]

even if the SFA apply sanctions to newco Rangers they'll just overturn it in the courts again

On what grounds? As long as the SPL follow their line of sanctions, they'll be well within their legal rights. Something which Rangers haven't disputed.

That's a total straw clutch there, good sir.

[Lofarl]

Right let's get marching before it. It will be like the march they will do 8 days later on the 12th. The 3rd division conga line.

[thisGRAEME]

Someone post that independence day 4th of july bit.

[Kyle]

They are presumably also in breach of SFA rules over the contract issue. So it might be a choice - accept you have no history, or take the punishment (which should be severe).

Ahh, see, that makes sense. I just presumed that, with the investigation being carried out by the SPL, the SPL would be the only association with grounds to commit to a sanction.

Thanks for clearing that up (you too Mr X)

I know this must be hell for Rangers fans, genuine sympathies to those that aren't glory hunters or knuckle draggers (or both, my god, both), but this is braw entertainment. I've done no work in months

[sons superhero]

Having had to endure administration (twice) with my club, I knew from 14th January onwards that this thread would be like groundhog day for me, so I left those memories well alone for a good while.

Curiosity got the better of me, however, and I doff my cap to the many sensible posters such as Pozbaird and Granny Danger, amongst others, and thank everyone for new words like Orcs, Cockwomble, t'Rangers and Araminta Moonbeam.

Anyway, someone did a bit of psychanalysis on this whole t'Rangers situation around 20 or 30 pages ago and I was surprised more people didn't pick up on it. Everything that has happened since January has more or less conformed to the theories put forward, and I've not had any suprises. Well, other than the sheer volume of 'empty vessels', but more about that very shortly.

Like at Dens, we have the various sections of the fanbase - the obnoxious and the loud ones who, disproportionately, got the most attention ( the empty vessels I was referring to), and the quieter, ordinary fans who just want a team to support. Collectively, however, they believe they are separate from the club, are innocent and that any punishment is too great.

Looking on, of course, are the fans of the other clubs who fall into exactly the same categories. Although, collectively themselves, they see the fans and the offending club as one and the same, those fans are guilty by association and, for many of them, the punishment will never be severe enough.

I knew that if Dundee FC were mentioned in this thread, it was never going to be with fond memories. I'll take that on the chin as I don't expect anything else and I'm not about to defend them by saying, "yes, but we were different to......., and we're not as bad as......"

What stands out for me, though, is if I wince every time a wee diddy club like mine is remembered for their relatively meagre wrongdoing, the years to come are going to feel like the death of a thousand cuts for the ordinary bluenoses.

In the scheme of things, they are still at the grieving stage - hurt, anger, confusion. We were 'fortunate' that the taxman didn't make up more than 25% of our debt (and on that note, it was blatantly obvious from the outset that the H&D CVA was NEVER going to be accepted), but don't underestimate the long term effects administration has had on the club, that don't make the headlines.

At Dens, the same grieving process was going on (although I don't remember anyone videoing themselves singing their own version of "you'll never walk alone" and posting it on You Tube) . The big difference I saw was the appetite for simply getting on with trying to save the club. That was the most important thing, and all the more remarkable given that this was the 2nd time we'd been called upon to muck in. Also, there was, believe it or not, some dignified leadership (that didn't get the headlines certain others did). I don't see this at Ibrox. Like the stereotypes who drift through life expecting the state to provide, it's as if the 'Peepel' genuinely believe that the equivalent of a crisis loan is going to land at the bottom of the marble staircase to see them through to their next trophy, and that by being part of a bigger gang they can just do as they please. It's as absurd as it is fascinating.......

I accept your comments, i have a brother who is/was a gers fan and speaks of the same sentiments as yourself. But as i have said to him, how can you be a supporter of a club but disassociate yourself from the actions of your club. I do have sympathy for you wanting a team to suppport, but to expect that a 10 point deduction is enough is in itself is crass, naive or plain arrogrance. I personally haven't heard any humility from gers fans. Even the ones who i have heard state that they should go to the third division aren't saying it because they believe they deserve it, no it is apparently too teach the rest of us how much we need them.

[welshbairn]

For those lovers of Latin legal terminology, the RTC Blogger lobbed that grenade into Cockwomble's office on the 22nd May.

I've been convinced from the start that all Cockwomble wants is "Successfully negotiated increased TV deal" on his CV, and to fcuk off out of Jockland as soon as possible..

[Musketeer Gripweed]

Cockwomble, Haudit & Daudit, Hughie Green, Soccerball Bill, The Blue Shytes, Fat Sally, The Donkeymaster, Duff & Duffus, NewCo(rpse), Club 12, quantum, Zombie Rangers, The stand up guy, Team Cardigan, Keyboard Knobjockeys, t'Rangers....

My vocabulary has been enhanced since Feb 14.

Got the makings of a Billy Joel song right there.

[Lyle Lanley]

Newco vote - 4th July

[Kyle]

Got the makings of a Billy Joel song right there.

They didn't start the fire?

[Guest]

Today is our independence day

[woolf]

"from this day forward the 4th of July wont just be seen as an American holiday but the day we all gained our Independence"

There or there abouts,first point of order has to be getting shot of the voting structure that has allowed the old firm to rule our game.Second point must be an equal share of TV money.

[Lyle Lanley]

Chris McLaughlin ‏@BBCchrismclaug Newco vote on 4th July. #SPL decide #Rangers have a case to answer re dual contracts.

[Owsley]

If, as RTC states, the EBT use goes back to 2001, and as they now definitely seem to be about to be punished, should it not be made clear that RFC should have been relegated at the end of that season for playing ineligible players? And that titles won since should be stripped? Cannot see how they can possibly be in the SPL next season, that ship has surely sailed.

[LeChuck]

On what grounds? As long as the SPL follow their line of sanctions, they'll be well within their legal rights. Something which Rangers haven't disputed.

That's a total straw clutch there, good sir.

Gregory Ioannidis ‏@LawTop20 With RFC ending, liabilities and sanctions [Court of Session, dual contracts etc] would also end. This is the main advantage of New Rangers.

Gregory Ioannidis ‏@LawTop20 The 'transfer' of the OldCo's liabilities to the NewCo, would mean a serious violation of the separate corporate personality principle.

Gregory Ioannidis ‏@LawTop20 @Paulmcc12 @evanjhenderson @mdkster Just to help: SPL may vote to apply sanctions to NewCo but it would be in violation of national law

[tintax]

Newco vote - 4th July

4th of July? FFS has this not dragged on long enough. Have the vote tommorow.