Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[Mip99]

what about CJ on Eggheads... ? holy hell !

Dear Cockwomble

Well done. I really didn't think there would ever be someone i would want to punch in the face more than Ed Balls.

Resign now.

Yours

A fan of Sporting Integrity

[Ivo den Bieman]

Ivo. Go and read beatties interviews last week in the press. His ideal scenario, what he wants for the club, is Thistle in an SPL2...

And by the way... The SFL vote next week?

Secret Ballot.

my point is that the statement was last week- before today's blackmailing statement.

and, even if PTFC do vote "yes", five clubs in the current D1 will be voting "no", with the possibility of more to follow.

[FinnesTON]

Would be funny if this bully boy tactics led to them voting no to rangers in sfl1 and sfl3 !

Basically thats how I now feel about Sevco 5088 The Rangers, yes the former entity cheated , failed to pay creditors and brought the game into disrepute now the new entity are conspirators in blackmail. While we cannot blame them for past regimes we can judge them on their own actions.

[beermonkey]

f**k me..an hour & a half to catch in this thread & i still didn't read it all.

My tuppence worth, IF this goes through then i'm in the 'bye bye scottish football' camp, that includes scotland games, merchandise, everything..not a single penny of my money will ever find it's way into any part of scottish football again.

SKY can f**k off as well... I would urge everyone else on this thread to do the same, let's see how much sky are willing to pump into scottish football when most fans in scotland cancel their subscriptions.

Throughout this whole debacle, i've been quite willing (like most) to have "the rangers" in div 3, but after todays pish i just want them vapourised from this fuckin planet, nothing good comes from that mob or their cuntish cousins across the city.

I'm of to bed and have a think about who i can support from now on if this plan gets the go-ahead.

[welshbairn]

I genuinely think this is a last desperate gamble by Doncaster, Topping and Green.

They know they are losing the SPL vote and are trying to desperately blackmail the SFL into ignoring their own rules.

My feeling is that they have played this card a couple of days too early. The shady closed door meetings between Sevco's "owner" and manager, and other SPL chairmen, added to Celtic's own sinister role in this, really do stink very badly.

Agree with almost all you said there. Just that I think they played it way too late. While the Entity were only in administration, before the end of the season, and if they agreed not to appeal to the Civil Courts, they could have deducted enough points to demote them in place of Dumfermline. Of course the SFL would have demoted them to the 3rd when they were liquidated, but that's the best they can hope for now anyway.

This is the first episode in my mind that is not down to the Entity, so I don't blame them for it. If they want to apply to Div 3 along with other hopefuls, I wouldn't protest, and would hope my club would give them a fair hearing.

[dave.j]

my point is that the statement was last week- before today's blackmailing statement.

and, even if PTFC do vote "yes", five clubs in the current D1 will be voting "no", with the possibility of more to follow.

Thats my point, Beattie's interviews were last week, yet he somehow managed to tell the Evening Times what his wishes for Thistle, in an ideal world, would be... Coincidentally, exactly the same as todays stitch up offer from the SPL/SFL.

And if Thistle vote YES, and a NO vote is successful... Thistle walk off into SPL2, licking Rangers balls.

[craigkillie]

Haven't got a spare week to read all the posts on here since I last looked at the thread about 10 hours ago, so sorry if it has been mentioned.

I was at a Killie fans' meeting tonight and Johnston said he didn't think the SFL1 plan would be accepted. I don't exactly trust his word, but it didn't seem like he was confident about it.

Edited June 29, 2012 by craigkillie

[GoTeamGaz]

a thought just occured to me - can't believe it won't have been mentioned before but I've not seen it

all the chairmen & bodies are going on about how much money Rangers bring to the table ... but that money they brought in was based on big signings - fan interest - sponsor interest - on the field success - increased TV interest - a house of cards that comes tumbling down when you realise that all of that was funded y debt & wont be allowed to happen so even IF Rangers transfer is accepted, they get into the 1st Division, then win promotion straight away, there's no money there to make the big leap into Europe that the other clubs apparently need them to have ... so where is the magic money that they must be saved for coming from?

[WDR]

a thought just occured to me - can't believe it won't have been mentioned before but I've not seen it

all the chairmen & bodies are going on about how much money Rangers bring to the table ... but that money they brought in was based on big signings - fan interest - sponsor interest - on the field success - increased TV interest - a house of cards that comes tumbling down when you realise that all of that was funded y debt & wont be allowed to happen so even IF Rangers transfer is accepted, they get into the 1st Division, then win promotion straight away, there's no money there to make the big leap into Europe that the other clubs apparently need them to have ... so where is the magic money that they must be saved for coming from?

The tooth fairy?

Ticketus?

The "big hoose" guy's McDonald's Gold Card?

[bonus_uk]

An email sent to Scot Gardiner, Dundee CEO:

Hi Scot,

I've shamelessly taken your email address from Twitter to send you my thoughts on the current state of Scottish football, I hope you don't mind.

I'll start by saying that I have no experience in running any sort of business and definitely no experience in trying to run a football club which has no access to overdraft facilities in the current economic climate.

Having said that... .

I'm utterly dismayed by the contents of the document contained in this article:

http://sport.stv.tv/...first-division/

I'm going to also run with the assumption that this article is genuine and an accurate description of the details you have received from the governing bodies in Scotland.

I'll start by highlighting the following "Takes approximately £16 million out of the game".

This is probably an accurate statement and I'm not going to dispute whether or not this will happen. What I'm going to put forward is an alternative view opposing the idea that this is somehow a bad thing to happen. Scottish football, I believe, is currently facing similar problems to the economies of the developed world. Debt has reached such levels that it has caused a speculative bubble in the value of players, their wage demands and their agents' fees. The proposals put forward are an argument for the status quo. For burdening clubs with ever more debt, stripping their assets and relying on non-customer income to service said debt. I believe that the current situation allows for a structural strengthening of the Scottish game. It does however require that clubs accept that their positions are untenable and that the game as a whole is on a downward spiral due to the erosion of the values which underpin the clubs as sporting teams in their communities.

I tend to keep my opinions to myself on matters relating to the management of the football club as I believe the people in charge have the clubs best interests at heart, however misguided their strategies appear from the outside.

I would like to raise the issue of the 50 bond scheme at this time. I am deeply concerned that this scheme is another period of Dundee Football Club borrowing against future earnings to pay wages and ongoing costs. I personally believe that any raising of capital should be invested back into ventures which raise the capital value of the club to encourage future revenue. Outside of paying the wages of short term assets (players), I do not see any other value construction carrying on at Dens. I'm well aware that things aren't straight forward for a club but I firmly believe that borrowings of this nature are unsustainable for any business, especially a club which has been into administration twice only recently.

I would appeal to you to ensure that the best is done for the good of the Scottish game. I believe that this situation could warrant short term gains for clubs by pushing through an ill considered restructuring of Scottish football. These changes would ultimately harm the game in the long term and I would argue that what is best for Dundee is not SPL entry next season if the cost is a return to the status quo the year after. The status quo in this instance, I believe, is the dominance of Rangers and Celtic causing an unsustainable level of borrowing by football clubs in a race towards extinction. I do not believe that Dundee will receive any tangible long term benefit from agreeing to restructure Scottish football and taking a place in the SPL without Rangers for a single year.

Short term pain in terms of administrations for the majority of the full time clubs in Scotland may be the result of rejecting these changes, however this will work itself through the game from top to bottom within 10 years and the best supported clubs will have an opportunity to rise back to the top. The rules and restructuring should be changed to enforce financial fair play with clubs required to submit independently verified accounts which show that spending is in line with income generated by the club excluding money earned through prizes and sponsorship distributions from the leagues (including any TV money). Additional funding for clubs, such as that from TV deals etc, should only be allowed to be spent on training facilites, youth development, a reserve team, etc. These rules would see the game be brought back to a healthy position, not a restructuring designed to maintain the current state of affairs for clubs within the SPL or clubs aspiring to be in the SPL.

Thanks

Edited June 29, 2012 by bonus_uk

[Bob Roth]

This may seem off topic but bear with me please -

Was reading tonight's BBC piece where Shearer basically said England have no chance in the 2014 WC. Now a couple of years ago the average Engerland fan would've kicked up merry hell upon hearing such sedition. The MSM would've stoked the flames for days, spinning a pretty dull pundit's honest opinion into a vital question on modern identity, and making pointless comparisons between EPL players from different countries.

But tonight's comments on the article are surprising because the vast majority are in agreement with Shearer. TBH I was pretty wary of this new found "modesty" that the whole England camp - players, supporters, pundits etc - seemed to be portraying lately, and thought it was just for show. You see there is, imo, a striking similarity between England and TCFKAR fans. They both expect to win all the time and this is fuelled by a misplaced sense of historical superiority. However, on this evening's evidence I think I've done the England support a mis-service.

They seem to be grasping the nettle somewhat regarding some of their own fans' behaviour and are also beginning to look at the bigger picture more realistically. If only the penny was dropping for their Scottish counter-parts...

But this wasn't really the reason for the post. You see, I saw a fair few were picking up on the Sky angle and realising the harm that it's actually causing their game. Lots of valid points were raised and many of them can be related to the stooshie currently happening up here. Don't know whether it's the Leveson enquiry making people more sceptical of the influence of the MSM or not, but there's a real feeling that wall-to-wall weekend "packaged" football is not the future.

Since the TV money entered our game the sharks have come circling. Sure Murray and Whyte have been caught, and some more will be spotted in the coming months, but many will slip through the net and this situation will probably just repeat itself.

The saving grace is actually such a hated team becoming the first to fall foul of the money; without them going through such shit just now fans would remain divided and nothing would change.

So we should use this period of heightened activity throughout the community to not only tell the h*ns to retire to their tiny bedrooms in their maw's flat and do one, but also to say to Sky TV with its Mengele-like attempts to shoehorn cold business ethics into our national sport, that they can f**k off too.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Bob Roth

[bonus_uk]

Well said Bob.

That's what I was getting at in my email to Scot. TV money shouldn't be allowed to be spent on players wages and running costs. It should be spent on building up the value of the clubs assets. It's training facilities, youth programs and reserve teams.

Currently, clubs like Dundee and soon to be Rangers, have been stripped of all assets. They're worth nothing on paper and are completely unviable because there has been no investment into bricks and mortar assets only on prima donna players by boards chasing the dream.

This is an opportunity for all teams to get together and say they've had enough. It's time to build self-sustaining clubs of value and rebuild the Scottish game from top to bottom.

[Supras]

I wonder if these chairman have a didn't read GIF as an out of office response.

[Kyle]

I've had some time to think about this now, cooled down and here's my 'revised' thoughts.

The actions of the SPL (whether its Doncaster, the chairmen themselves, whoever) are absolutely outrageous. No doubt. Even the Rangers fans seem to be disgusted by it, with little wonder. It's the case of 'having your cake and eating it too' from the SPL from their perspective, and I can completely understand that stance. STV have been quite good during the whole saga, but they have caused a lot of the hysteria in this. They have sensationalised the document in my eye, made it seem likely the SFL clubs were likely to accept and it's caused an unbelievably hysterical response from everyone.

It seems to me that the SFL clubs are not going to accept this. There's no incentive for the SFL2 and SFL 3 teams here and the SFL 1 clubs can't accept this either, the fan pressure wont allow it.

I think we need to continue with what we are doing. The chairmen in the SFL cannot ignore their supporters, as that is the only income source of income (in real terms). The fans aren't fooled, the directors appear not to be fooled and I can see all but the Cowdenbeath chairman (who is displaying a clear conflict of interest in all this too - but that's a story for a different post I think) voting no in fairly quick succession. The idea of SPL 2 will die on it's arse, as only Rangers and Cowden will agree to it (unless the SFL clubs' boards turn out to be spineless, but I don't think they can be in this instance).

I knew there was twists coming, but I don't think this is *as* sensational as it's been made out to be. It gives Rangers that chink of light, representing hope, once again, just like after they had after the CAS ruling, but I actually think this move by the SPL has made Rangers' position even more precarious.

[Claymores]

SWhat hurts me the most is that the cockwombles (PLURAL) seem desparate to tear Scottish fitba to bits solely to suit an ex-parrot. Fans at all levels seemed to have reached a consensus that the best way in the few weeks we have left before season 2012/13 was to tell Cevco FC to apply for the 3rd Division, then agree that league/structural considerations need addressed before we hit 2013/14.

It is doubly annoying that the cockwombles are bending over backwards to take it up the ass from an inceptual newco who might not even make life until the first round of the Ramsdens Cup or seem sure to be hitting Administration/unable to fulfill fixtures before 2012/13 ends.

East Fife have been SC Champions and 3x League Cup Champions in our continuing history. If we get left behind in the reconstruction of fitba solely to suit zombie FC then I guess it doesn't matter to me. I'll go watch the "wee Fife" - my mate's son playing in his under 14s. Come 3pm of a Saturday I'll be glued to SSN watching the updates of English fitba as even paying for EFFC seems pointless.

Depressing cockwombles we have in charge of the Scottish game.

In my oldie head, I had the imagine that EUFA were trying to introduce "fair play" rules and ways of encouraging grass-roots football. Scottish cockwombles seem to be going in the other direction.

I'm going to the next World Cup finals in Brazil and will be supporting my 'big team' Argentina as this is the death knell of encouraging another generation of the game in Scotland.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Claymores

[deerokus]

I've had some time to think about this now, cooled down and here's my 'revised' thoughts.

The actions of the SPL (whether its Doncaster, the chairmen themselves, whoever) are absolutely outrageous. No doubt. Even the Rangers fans seem to be disgusted by it, with little wonder. It's the case of 'having your cake and eating it too' from the SPL from their perspective, and I can completely understand that stance. STV have been quite good during the whole saga, but they have caused a lot of the hysteria in this. They have sensationalised the document in my eye, made it seem likely the SFL clubs were likely to accept and it's caused an unbelievably hysterical response from everyone.

It seems to me that the SFL clubs are not going to accept this. There's no incentive for the SFL2 and SFL 3 teams here and the SFL 1 clubs can't accept this either, the fan pressure wont allow it.

But there is - the SPL will just take any SFL clubs who do vote for it, stick them in SPL 2, then close off the door, leaving the no votes to become non-league sides. It's blackmail of the worst kind. It's much like what we see happening in politics at the moment - more and more outlandish policies are proposed that no one bothers opposing as they seem to far 'out there'.. and then they become law.

obv. it's a celtic site, but this is a pretty good post about the situation. Fans need to act now to stop this happening, and the good thing is that it's clear that the fan anger is there.

http://celticundergr...=article&id=935

Edited June 29, 2012 by deerokus

[Baxter Parp]

But there is - the SPL will just take any SFL clubs who do vote for it, stick them in SPL 2, then close off the door, leaving the no votes to become non-league sides.

Can't be done. They'd still be SFL clubs for a start.. Sheer crotch-rubbing fantasy on somebody's part.

[deerokus]

Can't be done. They'd still be SFL clubs for a start.. Sheer crotch-rubbing fantasy on somebody's part.

True.

The silence from SPL clubs (apart from Aberdeen?) on this proposal is worryingly deafening. It's looking like a stitch-up. Isn't it the SFL board who supposedly published the document?

We'll see who comments in the morning I suppose.

Edited June 29, 2012 by deerokus

[Sting777]

Surely there must be an element of this being against the law or certainly against EUFA/FIFA laws. Let me get this clear if 9 out of the 10 teams in Div 3 vote for this and everybody else rejects it, SPHell 2 will be made up of the likes of East Stiling, Queens Park, Annan NEWCO etc etc, while full time teams like ourselves, Morton, Raith Rovers Falkirk etc are consigned to the backwaters of Scottish football. If that is the case every club should challenge this through every available court. They are chancing their arm to save NEWCO. It cant be allowed to happen

[Claymores]

True.

The silence from SPL clubs (apart from Aberdeen?) on this proposal is worryingly deafening. It's looking like a stitch-up. Isn't it the SFL board who supposedly published the document?

We'll see who comments in the morning I suppose.

Aye but...............it has Liewell's name written all over it to save your OF buds - did he pen it himself or get one of the PR people to write it? That could explain why Celtic can't make PR announcements, that Department of the East End is too busy writing crapola to stitch the rest of Scotland up eh?