mythstoliveby Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Bendarroch makes the others look almost intelligent. It really is quite an achievement.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Wiz it aye... And so original. No answer then? At this point, wouldn't it be BDO who would be doing the suing on behalf of creditors? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythstoliveby Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 No answer then? At this point, wouldn't it be BDO who would be doing the suing on behalf of creditors? When the police started making arrests over the last few weeks the general view was that is would be BDO. Then of course lots of others waded in to try and get a share and cloud the issue...... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 When the police started making arrests over the last few weeks the general view was that is would be BDO. Then of course lots of others waded in to try and get a share and cloud the issue...... You can see where the confusion arises, mind, with so many entities using the same name...At least m'learneds will get a few holiday villas and Mercs out of the proceedings, so every cloud... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insaintee Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 It was actually a genuine question. It reads like he wants the newco to sue, but the crime, if any, was committed by against the old co. FIFY 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Interesting stuff from a Rangers fan* *no doubt will be dismissed as a timposter https://johnjamessite.wordpress.com/2015/09/22/the-oldconewco-imbroglio/ In my preceding three articles I have provided some background on Dave King, whom, in my considered opinion, is a white-collar career criminal. I also have misgivings about Paul Murray, whose naked ambition to rejoin the board led to him liaising with this criminal. I don’t see the point of John Gilligan, other than to make up the numbers in the unlikely event that Sports Direct Retail plc chose to make good on their appointment of two directors as per the loan agreement. According to a recent statement all directors are working pro bono, which I do not accept. King flies BA First from Johannesburg to London, and in business class from London to Glasgow, which is circa £10,500. This is paid for by the club. Murray & Gilligan have generous expense accounts that will lead to ‘benefit in kind’ taxes. These individuals are not running Rangers as a hobby. There will be bonuses for promotion, which is a shoe-in this year. Some might speculate as to why we need an absent chairman who resides in South Africa, and who then flies in to make contradictory statement to the media. Everything King does is self-serving. Those who think he he is a man of wealth who will make an appreciable difference to Rangers, should acquaint themselves with my well-researched articles. Those who believe he is a rain-maker who will garner investment from elsewhere, should realize that he is still a pariah in business circles in South Africa for allegedly perpetrating numerous frauds. King’s defence of these alleged frauds is ingenious, as one would expect from any long-term confidence trickster. King does everything as part of a trust and then claims that he does not have executive power in this trust. Of course, to make it even more difficult to secure a conviction he uses what is known as The Russian Doll Model, where each trust is a subsidiary of another company in another locus. He then engages in The Revolving Door Model where the parent of these trusts changes by moving capital between them so as to not only evade tax and allegedly launder money, but to confer temporary nominal control. So if you wanted to challenge King on his alleged fraudulent sale of software (to choose one from many examples), you would have to hire forensic accountants to discern which trust benefited from the fraud, and then attempt to link King to this trust, and then prove that he had executive control. Then you would have to go to court in The British Virgin Islands/Guernsey/The Sunshine Islands and South Africa. However King’s latest statement on Oldco, Rangers (1L), has led to some concern among informed Rangers fans. King stated that the current club is not the Traditional Rangers and that he and his board are looking at transferring the assets of RIFC to Rangers (1L) and then removing the latter from liquidation. He then disingenuously claimed. in an obvious pitch to the supporters, that his motivation was to silence our detractors who claim we are a new club with no claim on our history. King is lying here on so many levels. The first lie in his statement is that he and his shyster board owns and controls the assets. They are currently in dispute and will almost certainly be secluded at the preliminary hearing on October 16. Then there is the mythical offer of 60p in the pound to the creditors of Oldco, King has recently been subjected to the corporate equivalent of a warrant sale. It would be against his long-held traditions of parsimony to offer 1p in the pound to creditors, which is about as much as he could afford. Then there is the complex legal argument of arranging to sist Oldco from liquidation. This is rarely possible, but would have little chance of success unless the creditors were paid in full. At this point HMRC are owed £14m and change, but with 5 cases referred back to First Tier Tribunal, and the current legal bill to BDO now exceeding £5m, should HMRC take their appeal all the way to The Supreme Court in London these fees are likely to escalate. Notwithstanding the fact that no-one actually knows whether the £70m claim by HMRC actually failed in its appeal.There is a rumour circulating that it has but no-one should doubt that HMRC will continue to seek legal redress in London. The truth behind King’s interest in Oldco is that Ibrox, Auchenhowie and the IP, may revert to Oldco. There are others who share this view. Chief among these is Craig Whyte. Mr Whyte and his associates have been inordinately busy of late. Law Financial plc, has recently appointed Liberty Corporate Ltd, a British company whose only director is Whyte’s father, to its corporate board; having previously removed Craig Whyte as a director from the board of Law Financial plc as he has been disqualified as a director for 15 years by Justice Tyre.This is highly significant. There has also been activity in regard to The Rangers FC Group Ltd, which was formerly known as Wavetower, where four years of backdated accounts have now been posted which suggests that this formerly dormant company is now active. A Companies House document,MG01 re Liberty Corporate, discloses that the Rangers FC Group Ltd granted a security in the form of a debenture over all of its assets, present and future. The main assets of Rangers FC Group Ltd were an 85% shareholding in Rangers Football Club plc and rights under a floating charge over said club’s assets in security for whatever debt is owed to the RFC Group Ltd. In summary, Law Financial Ltd own the debenture floating charge. This is being challenged by BDO. Should the assets revert to BDO, they will sell them to the highest bidder. This won’t necessarily be Rangers. It most certainly won’t be King as he does not even have the £5m to pay his debts to Ashley. I was a critic of King’s decision not to repay Ashley, but with the ownership of the assets now in dispute there is no business imperative to repay Sports Direct Retail Ltd. Effectively King may only own 14.53% of an SFA licence, Edmiston House and the Albion Road car park. Craig Whyte’s recent activity provides more credence to my theory (I don’t claim exclusivity) on what has occurred since he purchased 85% of RFC plc from SDM. I stress at the outset of my argument that I believe that this transaction was legal and above board, despite conspiracy theories to the contrary. I posit that Whyte took over at Rangers with the intention of engaging in a pre-pack administration, thus keeping the assets under his control and with a view to ridding the company of debt and potential liabilities. On 14/2/12 Whyte initiated his plan and chose Duff & Phelps. Key personnel at D&P at that time had assisted Whyte in buying RFC and securing the Ticketus loans. There should have been an ‘arms length‘ partition between these activities Whyte was not prepared for the outcry from the fans and the media. He had executed this strategy many times before with other businesses. But Rangers is by no means just another business. Whyte needed a front man to profit from his strategy as the SFA were threatening to exclude him from being a director of the club should it exit administration, as per his plan. Charles Green was presented as a leader of a consortium that had no connections with Craig Whyte whatsoever. In my opinion, he was actually Whyte’s place man. As Green was attempting to gain a licence from the SFA, a convenient ‘feud’ between Whyte and Green was created to allay any suspicions that they were acting in concert. They then engaged in a faked Punch & Judy show, with an accompanying staged recorded narrative, which was leaked via Charlotte Fakes as ‘evidence’ of their business disagreement This charade resulted in the supporters putting their trust in Green and buying season tickets at levels never seen before in the lower tiers of Scottish football. Whyte’s security on the assets was water-tight. It was specifically designed to survive any liquidation event. It would have been impossible for Green to do what he appeared .to be doing without Whyte’s consent and cooperation whilst that security was in place. The ‘Switcheroo‘ was a ruse. Whyte’s objective was to eradicate debt and subsequently float Rangers on the stock-market, thus profiting significantly. It’s important to note that the shareholders in Sevco Scotland/The Rangers Football Club plc, sold the assets acquired from D&P for £5.5m to RIFC for £25m, and were paid in shares. As soon as the shares were sold, the perpetrators of this alleged scam were home free. The consequences of what I posit is an elaborate sting operation, will be played out in court. Only then will we see whether my conjecture is accurate. If this was not enough for Rangers supporters to endure, we are now in the hands of someone much more dangerous than Whyte. Whyte has been indicted and charged in regard to an alleged premeditated crime. Mr King was also charged with racketeering in South Africa. It was alleged that Mr King had liaised with an underworld figure, via a go-between. The fact that only five witnesses were prepared to testify against King and Morris was dismissed by King as a coincidence. Mr Whyte has much to learn in regard to how true masters play the game. I have kept the last part of this imbroglio to the end as it is a complex affair. Liberty Corporate Ltd was a wholly owned subsidiary of Liberty Capital Ltd, which was a Craig Whyte British Virgin Islands (BVI) holding company. Ticketus, who successfully won a court order against Whyte in London to the value of £17.1m, then proceeded to pursue the liquidation of Liberty Capital Ltd by order of The Eastern Caribbean Court. However the value in Liberty Corporate Ltd, which is now assigned to Law Financial, is currently unaffected by these liquidation proceedings. Should the assets revert to BDO, I suggest that the supporters club together to buy them to rid ourselves of King and whatever scams he has up his sleeve. We have had enough of the fraudsters and people like King impersonating Real Rangers Men. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) So, oldco could sue newco. Interesting. I don't think they would have to sue. Oldco, if they were victims of crime, would have their property returned by the courts at the end of the trial. Rangers would get their stuff back. Edited September 22, 2015 by stonedsailor 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Njord Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 John James Rico? Surely you know who that is....? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Brilliant Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Should the assets revert to BDO, I suggest that the supporters club together to buy them to rid ourselves of King and whatever scams he has up his sleeve. We have had enough of the fraudsters and people like King impersonating Real Rangers Men Looool that is a novel idea. There is more chance of Willie Gray buying them. We are the Passive! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 I don't think they would have to sue. Oldco, if they were victims of crime, would have their property returned by the courts at the end of the trial. Rangers would get their stuff back. Oldco Rangers would get their stuff back. Which BDO would then be looking to sell as part of the liquidation? Which would leave Newco Rangers having to buy a stadium and training ground, or rent one from whoever buys it? While Mike Ashley would be whistling for his £5m? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythstoliveby Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Oldco Rangers would get their stuff back. Which BDO would then be looking to sell as part of the liquidation? Which would leave Newco Rangers having to buy a stadium and training ground, or rent one from whoever buys it? While Mike Ashley would be whistling for his £5m? A very early statement from King when he was taking over was about looking very closely at the Ashley deal to make sure it was 100% legit (i.e. he wasn't going to pay it back if it was a dodgy loan! - no wonder he fits in at rangers!). I don't think King can afford to pay back Ashley his loan, so this new development could suit him fine (if he aligns with oldco again). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz FFC Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Surely Ashley has security for the £5M and isn't gonnae take kindly to King making him look a tit? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Surely Ashley has security for the £5M and isn't gonnae take kindly to King making him look a tit? At a guess, if it turns out that he was granted security on assets that were not available to be secured, I imagine he would be able to take some kind of legal action against whoever granted the security. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Oldco Rangers would get their stuff back. Which BDO would then be looking to sell as part of the liquidation? Which would leave Newco Rangers having to buy a stadium and training ground, or rent one from whoever buys it? While Mike Ashley would be whistling for his £5m? If someone fraudulently relieved you of your property then you would be legally entitled to have it back, unless it was insured then in that case the property would be passed on to the insurance company as they had already paid you for it. If the case of newco and oldco were to turn out as discussed ie newco, through it's agents, fraudulently took possession of the assets belonging to oldco then all of the assets which were transferred in the sale would be returned to the wronged owner. As BDO are in control of the affairs of oldco it would be their responsibility to dispose of them as they see fit or as is their legal duty as liquidators. It is the responsibility of liquidators to gain as much of a return as possible for the creditors and shareholders of RFC 2012 plc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 (edited) Surely Ashley has security for the £5M and isn't gonnae take kindly to King making him look a tit?Surely the loan agreement was between RIFC and Ashley? If RIFC did not have legal authority to use any of the assets as security then RIFC would owe Ashley the money but would only have anything which they have amassed after the transfer of assets for Ashley to pursue to pay the debt.If indeed things play out as speculated what would RIFC have left? Player registrations for any players who joined the new company's payroll? Any real estate purchased after the new company reformed the old company's assets into a club? Any cash left in the bank? Then there is the SFA membership and shareholding with the SPFL. Both of those organisations recognise the company formerly known as Sevco Scotland as the legal entity which forms the club ie the club. They would have nothing which would identify them as a club unless King was successful in buying RFC 2012 Ltd from liquidation or buying the assets from RFC 2012 plc via BDO but how would the football authorities and league deal with transferring the membership and share without having to make up new rules on the spot? All in all the name of Rangers looks pretty fucked. Edited September 23, 2015 by stonedsailor 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythstoliveby Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 stonedsailor - The football authorities will just do what they did last time - ignore their own rules and make up new ones as needed to try and accommodate that lot whilst spouting more garbage about that mythical 'armageddon' and 'civil unrest'..... After all they got away with it last time.... If we're not careful FIFA will finally sit up and take notice - maybe they'll call time and pull the plug on the whole of Scottish football 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 stonedsailor - The football authorities will just do what they did last time - ignore their own rules and make up new ones as needed to try and accommodate that lot whilst spouting more garbage about that mythical 'armageddon' and 'civil unrest'..... After all they got away with it last time.... If we're not careful FIFA will finally sit up and take notice - maybe they'll call time and pull the plug on the whole of Scottish football Yes, your scenario is just as likely as the SFA's claim of civil unrest and armageddon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythstoliveby Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Yes, your scenario is just as likely as the SFA's claim of civil unrest and armageddon. Hope so! But if I was in charge of a multi-national and I saw that one of my places was behaving so badly I'd be inclined to shut it down - even if just to avoid further embarrassment. If the police investigation starts implicating Regan and Doncaster then it may be inevitable that FIFA get involved, if we like it or not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Hope so! But if I was in charge of a multi-national and I saw that one of my places was behaving so badly I'd be inclined to shut it down - even if just to avoid further embarrassment. If the police investigation starts implicating Regan and Doncaster then it may be inevitable that FIFA get involved, if we like it or not. Have you seen the type of people FIFA put in charge? Invitations to the congress are more likely. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 stonedsailor - The football authorities dear reader will just do what they did last time - ignore their own rules and make up new ones as needed to try and accommodate that lot whilst spouting more garbage about that mythical 'armageddon' and 'civil unrest'..... After all they got away with it last time.... If we're not careful FIFA will finally sit up and take notice - maybe they'll call time and pull the plug on the whole of Scottish football Phil said this, Phil said that blah blah blah -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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