No8. Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 He's obviously rattled by the truth as I've rarely seem him swear. In my experience down here Rangers = QPR. Glasgow Rangers = Blue Bigots. f**k Off i am not rattled at all.. I then moved on to live in Luton for a while...anybody that lives there will tell you every 2nd pub in Hightown area is a Celtic pub. I used to have great 'fun' up there on a Saturday night...The Painters being a particular favourite haunt. I still have a few friends down there in the local RSC it is fair to say that celtic are by far the best supported club in Luton outside of the local club and a couple of London clubs 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No8. Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 You lived in Devon in the 80's? But you were a season ticket holder going to Ibrox then too. How can I argue with such first hand knowledge though. You lived in England for a while 30 odd years ago. I've lived in England for the last 15 years. You obviously know better. I submit. I gave my season ticket to a friend who kept it going for 2 years...It was also around the time Mo Jo signed I did get it when i came up the road. I ended up missing the Aberdeen league decider game and that is the one i regret the most along with missing Mo Jo scoring the last minute winner against celtic 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintie1977 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 This is dragging on more than the independence vote! Please let liquidation take its course quickly and instead of us guessing about whether they're going bust or not we can commend them for securing an away point at Montrose..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRS LEFT PEG Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 I am thinking that a newco Rangers in the SPL would cause far more harm to the game than good. The feeling I get , is that a lot of opposition fans will walk away from the game forever. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No8. Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 I am thinking that a newco Rangers in the SPL would cause far more harm to the game than good. The feeling I get , is that a lot of opposition fans will walk away from the game forever. I doubt that very much. Watching Sportscene shows that we are down to the hardcore supporters as it is. I couldn't believe the empty seats at Pittodrie for their game against United at the weekend. We do need to work together to try and get back the supporters we have lost to the game. I wasn't at the game at the weekend as i was up Nort on Holiday and didn't get home in time but i believe St Mirren brought a healthy support and much more than their normal travelling support. I think some might have been along for a bit of gloating but i would like to think many more appreciate the work done by Danny Lennon and the attractive football that they have been playing all season. Hopefully this will lead to St Mirrens crowds going up for the forthcoming season. Killie winning the cup and again are playing attractive attacking football. If their crowds do not go up then there is more wrong with the game than we first thought The main problem i see with a Newco Rangers in the SPL is it would mean a points penalty and possibly a financial penalty...If that is the case then the Rangers traditional travelling support will be greatly reduced...Now i know the usual suspects will be doing cartwheels but their clubs and the league as a whole will suffer financially and as a contest. I just cant see that being a goer at all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 The best way to increase crowds and the competition of the league is to kick out the Old Firm altogether. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p&b is a disgrace Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 (edited) I couldn't believe the empty seats at Pittodrie for their game against United at the weekend. Theres no point in fans of either of those teams ( or indeed the other 40 Scottish senior clubs ) turning out in numbers until their clubs have a level playing field. Its a bit like being a 100m runner in the 1988 Olympics and having to come up against Ben Johnson. Edited April 9, 2012 by p&b is a disgrace 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 "If you're going through hell, keep going". Oh how they make me laugh The ballot was for a beautifully framed Alan McGregor signed shirt and photo, alongside a wonderful portrait of Her Majesty the Queen. Undoubtedly a prize to grace the wall of any Bluenose living room. The fundraising campaign continues to grow apace, and many events have been organised in my little part of the world – the famous Norn Iron - to assist the Rangers Fans Fighting Fund Rangers fans are the best fans in the world. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Theres no point in fans of either of those teams ( or indeed the other 40 Scottish senior clubs ) turning out in numbers until their clubs have a level playing field. Its a bit like being a 100m runner in the 1988 Olympics and having to come up against Ben Johnson. this is off topic but carl lewis was a drug cheat as well and had failed a test in the lead up to the olympic and had inside info about new testing procedures. 2nd place linford christie has also failed a drug test as has 4th place dennis mitchell. anyone turning up clean for the 100m at the olympics any year post 1964 wouldn't be anywhere near the final. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No8. Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 The best way to increase crowds and the competition of the league is to kick out the Old Firm altogether. Another myth. The Scottish first division is a competitive league...most years...but the crowds are still largely disappointing. The best way to increase crowds is to make the product better and more affrodable. How we do that is spread the TV money more evenly. Spread the televised games around all the clubs and stop TV companies only showing OF away games!! Promote our game more rather than taking every opportunity to run it down. People like you don't want to see the game in this country improve...You just want rid of the 2 top clubs. What happens when you get rid of these 2 and in a few years Aberdeen and Hearts ( for example) are winning everything in front of sellout crowds? Do we ditch them? Instead of looking at ways of handicapping the top clubs we should be looking at ways to promote and improve the 'other clubs'!!! -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLip69 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 I dont know if this has been posted on here alread it's from the BBC business news Unwrapping the Murray mint Sir David Murray says Rangers' former directors provided Craig Whyte with confidential information A 42-hour power cut while I was on a Hebridean holiday last week may have been the reason Sir David Murray couldn't reach me to offer his customary spin on his latest set of company accounts. Others - either better connected by Scottish Hydro's technicians, or part of the metals-to-property magnate's favoured circle - were honoured with a highly selective release of statistics. Operating profit in the black, with Murray International Holdings (MIH) making £11m last year. A £59m write-off on the sale of Rangers, demonstrating just how much the former owner and chairman had given the football club. A swap of £118m debt for equity with Lloyds Banking Group which didn't even dilute the Murray family's 70% voting power over MIH. Unsurprisingly, that wasn't quite the full story. Sir David omitted to point out that most measures of profit and loss were drenched in red ink. On group turnover of £395m, loss before tax was £87m. That compares with a £69m loss last year. And yes, most of the most recent loss was explained by writing off almost all of a £60m loan to Rangers from MIH's sports subsidiary, along with reduced valuations on property and a £13m hit on the goodwill reckoning of the MIH metals business. The chairman also seemed to forget to mention that the metals division, the foundation on which his once mighty company was built, is up for sale, in parts or as a whole. Notoriously complex That much came out after the selective briefing, with the release by Companies House of the private company's accounts for the year to June 2011. And on closer reading to end off said Hebridean holiday, the full picture gets ever more interesting. It shows the 10 months of the financial year in which Rangers FC was under the control of MIH delivered £8.7m in profit. Some £4m of that came from profit on player sales. In the previous full financial year, the club delivered MIH some £5m profit. Not such a costly farewell after all. It turns out not all of MIH's metals business could be fully signed off by auditors as a conventional going concern, triggering an "emphasis of matter paragraph" which highlights unusual levels of uncertainty about the outcome of the current business review. And Lloyds Banking Group is putting a stop to Sir David's notoriously complex cross-subsidies of MIH's divisions. The healthier bits - providing metal to the oil and gas sector, and in outsourcing business services - are no longer to cross-guarantee the main metals business or commercial property. Or, indeed, Rangers Football Club. Lloyds has kept MIH alive, as a means of recovering as much as possible of the £759m debt it built up through Bank of Scotland's breathtakingly generous corporate division boss, Peter Cummings. The company is best known to most people as having owned Rangers, but that was a relatively small part of a business that had the misfortune of focusing on metal sales to the construction industry and on commercial property, both of which suffered the worst of the downturn. But to keep MIH going, it's clear from the past two years of accounts that the bank is dispensing some harsh medicine.This is not to be interpreted as pressure from the bank, spins Sir David. But it's hard to believe this was the path the chairman would have chosen if the bank were leaving him to his own devices. MIH's asset management division has been divested. It dropped its mining interests. Rangers had to go too, of which more later. The commercial property portfolio and development land is being given time for prices to rise before getting flogged off. The London market has offered better prices than elsewhere, helping MIH to raise £315m in assets so far, including £68m in the most recent financial year. All this appeared until last year to be a strategy to protect the core metals business. But disappointing prices and trading figures mean that even that now has the 'for sale' sign up. We're now told, via the old Ibrox-style briefings, that a buyer has been lined up to take on half the metals business. Let's hope it's not Craig Whyte. Meanwhile, costs have been slashed, with staff numbers down by nearly 850 to 2660, some with those divestments. Since March, far more jobs are being transferred to a rival outsourcing company since MIH's Response subsidiary lost the Sky TV contract, its biggest. In the 2010-11 financial year, total staff wages and salaries fell from £85m to £60m. It's hitting the pay packet of the highest paid director. Let's assume that's Sir David himself, seeing his wage packet thinning somewhat from £1.014m to £793,000. On Rangers, the MIH chairman's statement with his annual accounts says nothing about the pressure he may or may not have been under from Lloyds Banking Group to sell to Craig Whyte in May last year. Before then, he had said he was delaying a sale until he had found a worthy buyer who would act in the interests of the club. There wasn't a long queue. The subsequent unfolding of events has probably tarnished Sir David Murray's reputation more than anything, which he acknowledges. He's already said he feels he was "duped" by Craig Whyte. His statement goes further, saying the sale has caused "profound regret that we sold the club to Craig Whyte and Wavetower [the financier's then investment vehicle]". Sir David says Rangers' former directors provided Craig Whyte with confidential information which he used to carry out the transaction to buy the club. He doesn't quite spell out that trust was betrayed. But with the new owners having obligations and responsibilities to carry out: "They patently failed to do so". Sir David now says he's "gravely disappointed and staggered" at the revelations that have come out since the start of this year, including the news that Ticketus provided the funds with which to buy Rangers in exchange for future season ticket sales. The failure to account for £9.5m from that funding is "particularly disturbing" when there were "independent confirmations" provided last 3 January that the promises given by Craig Whyte last May would still be adhered to. "Not unsubstantial documentations" have been handed to the administrators. What Sir David does not address is the criticism of the potential tax liabilities Rangers still faces as a result of the Employee Benefit Trusts through which he paid players to avoid tax. That pre-dates any involvement of Craig Whyte, and still awaits the ruling of a tax tribunal. Whatever has happened since May 2011, when Mr Whyte got 85% of Rangers shares for only £1, that tax bill alone has the weight to sink Rangers. And it seems from the MIH accounts that the ruling may also come back to bite the parent company as well. It "continues to defend [the] tax query". But while it's still being contested, and with professional advice, the directors of Murray International Holdings don't feel it necessary to spell out in their accounts the size of the bill they'll face if the ruling goes against them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p&b is a disgrace Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 (edited) this is off topic but carl lewis was a drug cheat as well and had failed a test in the lead up to the olympic and had inside info about new testing procedures. 2nd place linford christie has also failed a drug test as has 4th place dennis mitchell. anyone turning up clean for the 100m at the olympics any year post 1964 wouldn't be anywhere near the final. Only Johnson tested postive at the 1988 Olympics ( of the 100m finalists, anyway ) Edited April 9, 2012 by p&b is a disgrace 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz FFC Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Another myth. The Scottish first division is a competitive league...most years...but the crowds are still largely disappointing. The best way to increase crowds is to make the product better and more affrodable. How we do that is spread the TV money more evenly. Spread the televised games around all the clubs and stop TV companies only showing OF away games!! Promote our game more rather than taking every opportunity to run it down. People like you don't want to see the game in this country improve...You just want rid of the 2 top clubs. What happens when you get rid of these 2 and in a few years Aberdeen and Hearts ( for example) are winning everything in front of sellout crowds? Do we ditch them? Instead of looking at ways of handicapping the top clubs we should be looking at ways to promote and improve the 'other clubs'!!! Can we all borrow a couple of thousand of your fans then? The good ones not the bigots/knucklescrapers 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLip69 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Another myth. The Scottish first division is a competitive league...most years...but the crowds are still largely disappointing. The best way to increase crowds is to make the product better and more affrodable. How we do that is spread the TV money more evenly. Spread the televised games around all the clubs and stop TV companies only showing OF away games!! Promote our game more rather than taking every opportunity to run it down. People like you don't want to see the game in this country improve...You just want rid of the 2 top clubs. What happens when you get rid of these 2 and in a few years Aberdeen and Hearts ( for example) are winning everything in front of sellout crowds? Do we ditch them? Instead of looking at ways of handicapping the top clubs we should be looking at ways to promote and improve the 'other clubs'!!! Why would you think that another two would come out of the crowd and takeover where the OF left off? Historically it's bigotry and sectarianism that made Celtic and Rangers as big as they are now, it's their little cartel of never voting against one another and sewing up TV rights that has kept them there. The rest of the teams are all pretty close where finances are concerned, playing against teams that get 10,000 fans a fortnight more than you isn't as daunting as playing a team that gets 10 times as many fans a fortnight as you do. Correct me if I'm wrong but haven't the top two clubs been looking for a way out of this league for years why shouldn't we want to see the back of them? Everything you've said about how to promote the league better and make it more competitive is fine, but it's the exact OPPOSITE of what your club wants. Celtic and Rangers are in it for themselves, nothing they do is for the good of the game it is all done with a view to keeping themselves on the top of the pile. The Champions league money is sacrosanct they dont want any other team getting their snouts into that particular trough. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Another myth. The Scottish first division is a competitive league...most years...but the crowds are still largely disappointing. Winning the Scottish First Division only gets you a ticket to the SPL - more expensive football and boredom central at the top. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLip69 Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Can we all borrow a couple of your fans then? The good ones not the bigots/knucklescrapers Fixed it for you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kildog Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 I doubt that very much. Watching Sportscene shows that we are down to the hardcore supporters as it is. I couldn't believe the empty seats at Pittodrie for their game against United at the weekend. We do need to work together to try and get back the supporters we have lost to the game. I wasn't at the game at the weekend as i was up Nort on Holiday and didn't get home in time but i believe St Mirren brought a healthy support and much more than their normal travelling support. I think some might have been along for a bit of gloating but i would like to think many more appreciate the work done by Danny Lennon and the attractive football that they have been playing all season. Hopefully this will lead to St Mirrens crowds going up for the forthcoming season. Killie winning the cup and again are playing attractive attacking football. If their crowds do not go up then there is more wrong with the game than we first thought The main problem i see with a Newco Rangers in the SPL is it would mean a points penalty and possibly a financial penalty...If that is the case then the Rangers traditional travelling support will be greatly reduced...Now i know the usual suspects will be doing cartwheels but their clubs and the league as a whole will suffer financially and as a contest. I just cant see that being a goer at all. What's all this red herring, crowd pish. Most clubs are pulling in or around their historical averages. How many people do you think should go to the football on a Saturday? Most Scottish teams are from impoverished pishy wee towns. We don't have the draw of bigotry, nor have we used that advantage to stack the decks against everyone else, then to round it off, cheated! This thread is about the impending death of Rangers football club, brought about by their own cheating/financial mismanagement. Stop trying to change the subject. You can take your "concern" for Scottish football's future and GTF. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No8. Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Correct me if I'm wrong but haven't the top two clubs been looking for a way out of this league for years why shouldn't we want to see the back of them? Everything you've said about how to promote the league better and make it more competitive is fine, but it's the exact OPPOSITE of what your club wants. Celtic and Rangers are in it for themselves, nothing they do is for the good of the game it is all done with a view to keeping themselves on the top of the pile. The Champions league money is sacrosanct they dont want any other team getting their snouts into that particular trough. Well Hearts had a crack at the Champions League money and if there is any justice in the game your club will have a crack at the Champions League millions next year. I for one will be cheering you on through the qualifiers and it would be fantastic for Scottish football if you could overcome the odds and get there I have never wanted Rangers to leave the Scottish game and i never will...It would never happen but if it did and Rangers had a reserve team in the scottish league it would be that team i followed 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No8. Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 What's all this red herring, crowd pish. Most clubs are pulling in or around their historical averages. So we should just accept that then? People are claiming the crowds will go up if you take the strongest clubs out the equation...You cant have it both ways. Either we can encourage more people back to the game or we cant. How many did Killie and Ayr take to the semi final? 25,000 ish? Aberdeen crowds have been pretty dismal all season. They certainly are nowhere near the crowds they got when they were being successful. Dunfermline crowds are down from the last time they were in the top flight. I know exactly what the thread is about but until the preferred bidder is announced there isn't much to say on the original topic. Why didn't you aim that accusation at the poster discussing the olympics 100 meters 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 (edited) I dont know if this has been posted on here alread it's from the BBC business news Unwrapping the Murray mint Sir David Murray says Rangers' former directors provided Craig Whyte with confidential information A 42-hour power cut while I was on a Hebridean holiday last week may have been the reason Sir David Murray couldn't reach me to offer his customary spin on his latest set of company accounts. you can tell that mark daly wrote this. he writes in the same mongoloid style he uses in his tv reports. edit - it's actually the business editor. maybe they have a style guide at bbc scotland where no paragraph can be more than 2 sentences long and must be completely unrelated to what comes immediately before and after. Only Johnson tested postive at the 1988 Olympics ( of the 100m finalists, anyway ) carl lewis tested positive in the months before hand (when the majority of ped abuse takes place) and usa athletics covered it up. Edited April 9, 2012 by T_S_A_R 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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