Marshmallo Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Ric Flair is the best ever. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamdunk Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 It's bret Hart for me. He was miserable, but boy could he wrestle. It was going through the old matches to find my favourites that made me realise. Was never that into triple H, his matches with mankind were amazing tho. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We Are Pars Fans! Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 HHH wouldn't be in top 10 ever. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafc1885 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 That is quite clearly, not real. A lot more than 140 characters for a start! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Different debate altogether, but HHH is unquestionably one of the top 5 wrestlers in history. Better than Shawn Michaels for one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forehead7 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 The WWE's problems can mostly be summed up by one word, Cena. As it's been said previously everyone with proper talent gets buried to keep I'm on top, his matches are fucking terrible, his character hasn't changed in a decade. Don't get me wrong, you're right that he's part of the problem but it's not his fault that Creative book him that way. And let's not forget that he put over Punk numerous times during his title reign and he put Bryan over at Summerslam. To say he doesn't have good matches is unfair, he always has fantastic matches with Punk. The problem is that if he has to win then they'll do the superman finish but that's not necessarily his fault, it wouldn't surprise me if he was told to do that to sell the gimmick. Ric Flair is the best ever. I'd have him and Macho Man in waaaay ahead of Michaels. Austin too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quentin Taranbino Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Did Bret Hart ever have a run of matches with HHH? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAGer Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) I think Punk's frustrations probably stem from even when he was champion. As WWE Champion, he still didn't get to headline Wrestlemania, instead fitting in behind Cena vs the Rock. Off the top of my head, I can think of a few other events where his title match went in behind others (Cena vs Ziggler, Cena vs Big Show, Cena vs Brock Lesnar and even Cena vs John Laurinitas!) Then, he's had to do the job for the Rock's brief return and done a job for the Rock (again at Elimination Chamber), the Undertaker & Brock Lesnar after losing the title. Whilst he was the champion for a remarkable amount of time, it only really felt as if he was the main point of interest when he was up against Cena. Also, Triple H's big solution to the fans gripes with the Royal Rumble and potential main event at Wrestlemania is to put Daniel Bryan up against himself instead? Don't get me wrong, Triple H was a draw in his day and proved himself to be a more than trusted competitor (without getting into specifics of who was or wasn't better than him) but I think he needs to realise that it's not the case anymore. The matches with Lesnar weren't great but they still insisted on getting him over Lesnar at Wrestlemania (obviously, the show that more people watch). If he does a clean job to Daniel Bryan in a good match it'll maybe help him on the road to becoming a top star, but it's a road he's been treading for some time now and it doesn't seem to be getting any easier. Edited January 30, 2014 by LAGer 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarusQPFC Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Don't get me wrong, you're right that he's part of the problem but it's not his fault that Creative book him that way. And let's not forget that he put over Punk numerous times during his title reign and he put Bryan over at Summerslam. The last Cena match i enjoyed was watching him being torn to shreds by Brock Lesnar last year. My point was that if Cena was to suddenly be sidelined or otherwise out of the game it would force changes in the product. But i agree that the creative side are one of the big problems aswell. The PG culture of the WWE doesnt help either. PG culture in a product that involves people beating the hell out of each other? What a laugh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamdunk Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Did Bret Hart ever have a run of matches with HHH? I dont remember any singles matches. I started watching again in 97, there the hart foundation and DX were feuding quite a lot though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forehead7 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 The last Cena match i enjoyed was watching him being torn to shreds by Brock Lesnar last year. My point was that if Cena was to suddenly be sidelined or otherwise out of the game it would force changes in the product. But i agree that the creative side are one of the big problems aswell. The PG culture of the WWE doesnt help either. PG culture in a product that involves people beating the hell out of each other? What a laugh Him not having great matches isn't solely down to him. Him and Orton don't work well together. He was against Del Rio before that who I can't stand. His match against Bryan at Summerslam was decent enough. Again, that's Creative's fault. They should be able to make guys look good without them having to job to Cena. They managed to do it with Punk, looks like they might be getting Reigns over. But even when someone like Bryan avoids Cena, they decide to f**k him over with other people! The PG argument doesn't stand, there's been fucking loads of great moments since it went PG (I don't even know when it was but even in the past 2-3 years that I've been back watching every week). Bryan still has excellent matches and cuts great promos despite it being PG, he doesn't even push the boundaries (of PG) like, say, Punk does from time to time. The product being shit isn't because it's PG, the wrestlers and bookers need to shoulder that blame. I don't watch this for the violent subtext, I don't want to see people going crazy or dying young because they brought back blood and violence. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAGer Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) Him not having great matches isn't solely down to him. Him and Orton don't work well together. He was against Del Rio before that who I can't stand. His match against Bryan at Summerslam was decent enough. Again, that's Creative's fault. They should be able to make guys look good without them having to job to Cena. They managed to do it with Punk, looks like they might be getting Reigns over. But even when someone like Bryan avoids Cena, they decide to f**k him over with other people! The PG argument doesn't stand, there's been fucking loads of great moments since it went PG (I don't even know when it was but even in the past 2-3 years that I've been back watching every week). Bryan still has excellent matches and cuts great promos despite it being PG, he doesn't even push the boundaries (of PG) like, say, Punk does from time to time. The product being shit isn't because it's PG, the wrestlers and bookers need to shoulder that blame. I don't watch this for the violent subtext, I don't want to see people going crazy or dying young because they brought back blood and violence. I think the PG content makes it more difficult for the writers and performers and they have to be a bit more creative. For example, a lot of people are talking about Triple H's ability here. Whilst I always liked him, I think a lot of his best work was done because they didn't have the PG restrictions - such as the Street Fight with Cactus Jack at the Royal Rumble followed by the Hell in a Cell Match at No Way Out. A lot of Triple H's matches were bloodbaths and were enthralling in that way. Even the most recent match with the Undertaker pushed the boundaries a lot more than other performers would be allowed to. Now that they've moved in a different direction, they have the perfect characters to do so. Cena is obviously the clean face of the company and with the technical abilities of Punk, Ziggler, Bryan etc you don't need to have spotfests and bloodbaths to make a good match. Obviously you have edgier characters like Lesnar & Orton (from time to time) to push the boundaries a bit when looking for the shock factor. I think that, yes, the PG restrictions make things a bit more difficult but I don't think it can be used as an excuse as the talent is there to make it work. Edited January 30, 2014 by LAGer 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banterman86 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Yeah, i;m not a fan of the argument PG is to blame either - it doesn;t stop you creatinga nd sustaining pushes to make new top performers. Worth noting that one of the hottest periods of any wrestling company - WCW 1996-1997 was PG 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forehead7 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Now that they've moved in a different direction, they have the perfect characters to do so. Cena is obviously the clean face of the company and with the technical abilities of Punk, Ziggler, Bryan etc you don't need to have spotfests and bloodbaths to make a good match. Obviously you have edgier characters like Lesnar & Orton (from time to time) to push the boundaries a bit when looking for the shock factor. They have those characters, and a bunch more. Cesaro has had two phenomenal matches in the past like 2/3 months down on NXT with Sami Zayn and William Regal, both were easily top 5 matches of last year, yet he's not been given a look-in at the main event scene. That's why I think it's Creative's fault, and Vince, Stephanie and Hunter are obviously huge forces in that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honestly united Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 the majority of televised wrestling up to the advent of ECW was pretty much PG, yes you had a few blood baths thrown in here and there, but the vast majority would fit in with the current WWE PG remit so its no excuse at all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keynesian Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Just re-watching RAW. Got to the Orton-Batista-Lesnar promo - imagine if Heyman hadn't been there, full on cure for insomnia. Was actually thinking when Orton & Batista were in the ring, "Oh, what fine exponents of microphone skills we have here. How could this possibly get any better". Who's music then hits? Brock fucking Lesnar 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieStevenson Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Trying to make Daniel Bryan face of WWE. Hmmmm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyle Lanley Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 http://www.wrestlingforum.com/raw/1115241-hope-not-true.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieStevenson Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 If Cody Rhodes doesn't come flying down off the top of the cage I'm going to feel hard done by. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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