Monday Night Raw Live

[LAGer]

More rumours, again copied directly from Rajah. I realise I'm doing a lot of these but just for anyone thats interested in how the full card may take shape.

WWE WrestleMania 29 is just around the corner, and we've got an update on several matches planned for the big event:



- After returning to WWE at the Royal Rumble, Chris Jericho is still without an opponent for the show. Believe it or not, there's actually been talk of Jericho wrestling Fandango.



- Another rumored match that would allow several WWE stars to get WrestleMania paydays is an 8-person mixed tag team match featuring Brodus Clay, Tensai & The Funkdactyls vs. Team Rhodes Scholars & The Bella Twins.



- Regarding the Divas Title match (if there is one), it will likely be Kaitlyn vs. Layla, but they might end up doing another multi-person match to get more women on the show.



- WWE United States Champion Antonio Cesaro vs. R-Truth has been discussed as a match for the pre-show.



I don't think Jericho vs Fandango will happen and really don't want it to. I'd also like to see Cesaro on the card and with a more credible opponent.



Similarly, I'd like the Rhodes Scholars to be in a Fatal 4 Way thing at least for the tag titles against Team Hell No, Big E & Dolph and someone else (ideally the New Age Outlaws if they're still to make an appearance or two).

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

A talentless bum like Fandango being given such a high profile spot on the card would be a justified reason for the locker room to bitch and moan. I really can't see it happening though, he should be below Bo Dallas in the pecking order.

[Tamdunk]

To be fair, any missed movie promo work has been covered 5 times over with the amount of ads WWE are doing for the movie.

[forehead7]

The movie commitments that have taken a backseat are his obligations to promote G.I. Joe, a movie which he takes the central role in. He is therefore the guy sent out to do most of the promotion work. A lot of which he has actually missed, although G.I. Joe is lucky in that it has Bruce Willis to cover a lot of the slack. Ultimately, he can't hold off on it forever though. I'd imagine he runs the risk of missing the RAW before Mania, as it's release week. And it's something he can't avoid, given that it's probably something he's contracted to do.

Again, this isn't his fault. It's WWE's for not thinking this through. And anyways, why should they? They have a bonafide superstar carrying their belt and promoting their product. He's the most mainstream champ they've had since... erm... The Rock. He's one of only two true wrestling icons in WWE ( the other being The Undertaker ), and has earned the right to be the champion, regardless of what some jealous morons with short memories in the dressing room think.

And if there ARE main eventers complaining, they can f**k off anyways. The only other guy close to being worthy of a spot in a Mania main event is in the other marquee match with The Undertaker, which is an honour in itself, so I can't see him being the one complaining. He'll probably be delighted with the role he's been given. So then you're left with glorified midcarders. Because that's all that's left in WWE really.

He's not been at Raw in the past two weeks so he's had two full weeks or GI Joe stuff. It's obviously a balancing act and he, WWE and the GI Joe people knew that but missing two weeks of Raw in a row (with, as you said, the week before Mania probably another) is too much for the WWE Champion and making a bit of a mockery of it, IMO.

I know it's not his fault. I'm not saying it is, I'm complaining about The Rock but I'm fully aware that it's WWE's doing. Because him not being there every week makes it seem like the title isn't as important as it should be and that Mania isn't as important as it should be.

My point is that it's got a knock-on effect. If Rock wasn't taking that spot then, say, CM Punk would. Then there'd be an extra spot where Punk is just now. The likes of Sheamus and Orton aren't glorified midcarders and the former may well have been the guy to face Taker if Punk was in the WWE title match.

[J_Stewart]

To say that the likes of Cena, Triple H, Lesnar, Punk or Jericho are anything other than Mega Stars - in the states especially - and Bona fide main eventers is ludicrous.

[DomDom]

He's not been at Raw in the past two weeks so he's had two full weeks or GI Joe stuff. It's obviously a balancing act and he, WWE and the GI Joe people knew that but missing two weeks of Raw in a row (with, as you said, the week before Mania probably another) is too much for the WWE Champion and making a bit of a mockery of it, IMO.

I know it's not his fault. I'm not saying it is, I'm complaining about The Rock but I'm fully aware that it's WWE's doing. Because him not being there every week makes it seem like the title isn't as important as it should be and that Mania isn't as important as it should be.

My point is that it's got a knock-on effect. If Rock wasn't taking that spot then, say, CM Punk would. Then there'd be an extra spot where Punk is just now. The likes of Sheamus and Orton aren't glorified midcarders and the former may well have been the guy to face Taker if Punk was in the WWE title match.

Sheamus and Orton are definitely midcarders at the moment. They're down there with the same uncertainty as everyone else. They would be if The Rock wasn't there too, because Brock Lesnar would likely move into that slot, or CM Punk. Maybe even The Undertaker. Because people actually care about those guys. WWE have a bit of the TNAs going on at the moment, where so much of it is devalued. Fandango is even getting some praise. If that isn't a sign of the times, I don't know what is.

[forehead7]

Sheamus and Orton are definitely midcarders at the moment. They're down there with the same uncertainty as everyone else. They would be if The Rock wasn't there too, because Brock Lesnar would likely move into that slot, or CM Punk. Maybe even The Undertaker. Because people actually care about those guys. WWE have a bit of the TNAs going on at the moment, where so much of it is devalued. Fandango is even getting some praise. If that isn't a sign of the times, I don't know what is.

No fucking chance are Sheamus and Orton midcarders. Sheamus has just come off the back of a great and relatively long world title run, even if it's the WHC, and Orton is still totally a main eventer. I'm not saying they're on the level of Cena or Rock, or even Punk, but that's because those guys are above main eventer status (juggernauts is probably the only term that aptly describes Cena and the Rock). Maybe we're just splitting hairs on terms here though.

I don't think Lesnar or Undertaker would take Rock's slot if he was unable. They'd surely want to make as many different "big" matches as possible. Punk/Cena and then someone subbing in against Taker would be what I'd expect if The Rock suddenly had to pull out.

[DA Baracus]

Who is this 'Fandango' character you're all talking about?

Do you mean FAAAAAANNNNNNNN....DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNN.....GGGGGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO?

[Tamdunk]

They got the first 2/3 of his name right anyway.

[HEY_SIDNEY]

That's definitely an issue. He gasses during promos as well, which I didn't realise could actually happen.

I think that with the shorter fued between Punk/Undertaker, it needs those weeks where it's centre of attention. You're either sold on Cena/Rock or you're not. That's pretty clear given the reactions to it.

This. Nice summary, along with LAGer's observation on cardio for the rock.

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

To be fair to the Rock, he is 40 years old.

[PrestersKTID]

To be fair to the Rock, he is 40 years old.

Jericho is 42 but he's as good as ever in the ring and has had a few long absences from the WWE

[Big River]

Jericho is 42 but he's as good as ever in the ring and has had a few long absences from the WWE

The Undertaker would have been 41/42 when he fueded with Edge for the WHC, including pretty brutal TLC and HIAC matches. No wonder he looks absolutely fucked these days.

[DA Baracus]

The Rock is fucked because he appears to be on 'roids and therefore hasn't put in the cardio.

Y2J is doing DDP Yoga, which is seemingly brilliant for the body and recovery. Loads of other WWE and TNA guys do it too.

Also since Taker is the character he is, just think of the chair/shovel/etc shots he's taken in an effort to bring him down.

[Dunning1874]

While it's not fair to single out The Rock over other part-timers, or blame the part-timers themselves rather than the company who are responsible for it, everyone in the midcard has every right to be pissed off. How can they reach main event status if part-timers are consistently taking high PPV slots ahead of them?

http://www.pwinsider.com/article/76126/what-top-wwe-stars-are-and-arent-appearing-on-wwe-tv-leading-to-wrestlemania-and-the-scary-tale-that-tells-for-wwes-future.html?p=1

Sticking this in a spoiler since the quote I'm taking's huge but think it covers the issue perfectly.

What we see is here is likely the future of WWE TV unless new stars are finally built up and become legitimate stars. If no new, legitimate names are created, WWE will have no choice but to continue to rely on older names who come in to "pop the town" so to speak (Lesnar, Rock, Undertaker) and slot them at the top of the biggest show of the year because the common belief is that they are the names that will generate the type of income WWE is looking for out of Wrestlemania.

WWE would be correct, however, they will also also scorching their own Earth. The strategy is foolish for the long-term with the company actually making their own jobs even harder each year they continue this practice. Long-term, it could be the beginning of the end of WWE.

It's one thing to have Rock slotted into the biggest show of the year due to his level of stardom, but when the top three matches of the year are relying on "part time performers", there are several dangers in the strategy, should it continue:

1 - You educate the audience that the only names who matter are the ones who show up a few times a year, creating a true "glass ceiling" where no one who is around all year and responsible for carrying TV and live events are anything but secondary players, especially when they aren't presented on the same level as the "part timers." So, you create a situation where the rest of the year is meaningless, for the fans, for the talents, for the company. Wrestlemania season is when the super-heroes show up and the rest of the time, it's just wasted time. That's the message to the audience.

2 - By relying on "part timers" for major events and then not even having access to them weekly during those time periods, the company is painting itself into a corner, haphazardly, forcing last minute storylines to be forced (Punk winning a Four Way to wrestle Undertaker, for example) or for chances to legitimately build tension between foes (compare Cena vs. Rock build last year to this year) to be lost. The reliance on the part-timers are forcing an already difficult job to be even harder.

Sheamus, Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler, etc. will be working the road and TV long after Undertaker, Lesnar and Rock have gone off to parts unknown, but they aren't seen on the same level by the fans. It shouldn't be that way. WWE's job is to manipulate their fans to see their stars as huge names and by not pushing them (or someone else) into legitimate roles, they are only hurting the company itself. Not everyone is going to be the next Ric Flair, but there is only a brief window of opportunity for all talents to break through and shine. After so long, the audience sees them as just another wrestler that doesn't matter.

Instead of using the "part-timers" as a stop-gap measure to help shore up the company while getting the next generation over as huge stars, WWE instead impends the progress and evolution of the new talents, holding them in place as they parade the stars of yesteryear in and out during Mania season.

That may be fine for today. It may not mean anything today that Dolph Ziggler loses for the 1000th time, or that the Intercontinental and United States champions lose more often on TV today than Barry Horowitz did in the 1990s, but one day?

One day, the bottom is going to fall out. We are going to hit a date where the Undertaker's streak is ended by Father Time. Where Brock Lesnar decides he's going to go back into Minnesota farming seclusion. Where The Rock feels jumping on board a new sequel franchise will be more important than beating John Cena. Where age and injuries catch up with Cena, Punk and yes, even Triple H.

Then who does WWE look to to carry the future? Where are the Wrestlemania main eventers for Mania 35, hell Wrestlemania 31? They aren't going to be able to pluck, say Drew McIntyre, out of a lineup and place him in that role - not after the way they've beaten him down in the eyes of the fans. The problem is that they've got a roster of Drew McIntyres that are all seen the same way. From Ziggler to Zack, the audience keeps waiting for WWE to make new stars and well, they haven't in forever.

The last talents to use Wrestlemania main event matches to ascend to the top of the company were John Cena and Batista. That was Wrestlemania 21. Batista is off to make movies. Cena is still here, but what the hell happened the last eight years since? A reliance on the same old names, returns and guys like Miz being used as proxy talents since Rock wasn't going to give away his first match without a year-long build.

[DA Baracus]

WWE has had plenty of time and opportunities to build new stars.

Instead they keep creaming over SuperCena. Look how they're treating Ziggler at the moment. That's nothing to do with The Rock.

[DomDom]

All WWE have done for too long is have Cena at the forefront and then have everyone else revolve around him. For a while, Randy Orton moved up and became his major rivalry, and it actually helped Orton a great deal, as well as Cena. They then turned Orton face and fucked him for the foreseeable future. He'll be in and out of big matches just like everyone else from now on. Alberto Del Rio will probably now be the same after being a strong heel.

They can't do the same for CM Punk. They need to keep him where he is. He's the big heel to Cena's face. They already have a ready made story with him and Cena's natural successor at the moment as well. If Ryback doesn't go over at Wrestlemania, and convincingly, they are doing something seriously wrong, no matter who he is against. Ryback IS someone who can carry the torch. Not enough harm has been done that it can't be undone. The fans are buying into him, and Cena can't go on forever.

The part-timers aren't the problems. These have been problems that have been there for years. WWE quite simply do not know how to make new stars and when they DO make a start, they completely stall them by doing something stupid. That's the problem.

[djchapsticks]

A large amount of the problem, I reckon, is the wrestlers themselves. Guys in the past like Austin, Rock, foley etc, got themselves over to a large degree by breaking the norm. I think a lot of the mid card guys nowadays are waiting for creative to come up with something and they aren't up to the job of pushing guys to the moon when they are ready. Daniel Bryan and Zack Ryder are two obvious exceptions to this in that they more or less got themselves over, but look at how creative fucked up the most over guy in the WWE at one point last year. A guy who created his own buzz all by himself, handed control of it to creative and is now a jobber again.

And Bryan, like it or not has more talent and charisma than almost the entire roster. They gave him the standard cowardly heel WHC run they hand anyone who they want to make look a bit shite and to confound it, had him squashed at mania, yet by post mania raw he was easily the most over guy in the entire building. They had a ready made perfect rivalry in punk and Bryan last year, but needlessly threw Kane in and sent Bryan off in another direction. I don't know why, was it because these two guys in the ring together, made every other match on the cards on which they did wrestle look shite by comparison? We're they just too small?

Point being, ryder and Bryan became stars last year and did creatives work for them, they didn't pull the trigger with either.

[DomDom]

The problem with Zack Ryder is that he is actually shite. So while his act can work on some wee YouTube thing, It doesn't work on a big stage. Which also exposes the fact that he's not a very good wrestler either. He bombed because he's shite. The reason Daniel Bryan has continued to be over is because he isn't shite. He's one of the best in the world, if not the best in the world, at the moment. The fued with Punk was fine, and they ended it.

Daniel Bryan will get to the top again eventually. It's pretty obvious the higher ups in WWE love the guy. They put him in the ring with The Rock in a promo and allowed him to shine, which is about as big an endorsement these days as you can get. People like Team Hell No, so he'll be sticking where he is, but it's been coming out for ages that they want Daniel Bryan to win the big one at some point in the future. He's not like Dolph Ziggler where he's jobbing every week.

Now, if you're gonna complain about someone going out there doing his very best every time and get shafted, THAT'S who to look at.

[Northsea80]

Zack Ryders whole gimmick could only go so far before becoming stale, there doesn't seem to be any flexibility in his character. With the whole woo woo woo, broski thing he's a bit of a one note joke.