Walking Down The Halbeath Road

[Wacky]

6 minutes ago, Well over Par said:

I agree with parsforlife. 
 

the panic button has been pressed but sadly two months too late 

Has it though? Where’s the evidence of this? 

[Wacky]

2 minutes ago, Well over Par said:

One reason why we can’t sign players is Cook has managed to piss off a lot of agents 

More unsubstantiated nonsense? 

[SRB]

15 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

The conspiracy that 'The Germans' are somehow blocking transfers for some players for some reason, a reason no one is yet to explain, possibly because it's nonsense.

Also the offers for Brophy were turned down. He was never training with the club and the club never got a chance to speak with him.

What's 'wrong' at the club is that results have been pish. That's it. There's not some evil scheme by 'The Germans'.

Who’s said was the Germans, I never, I said the board. Which is made up of more than just the Germans. 
 

the injury’s haven’t helped. But in the summer the squad was paper thin, was also skin and bones at start of January.

it’s clear we struggle to get deals done for players one way or another and has been like that past few windows.

 

[parsforlife]

38 minutes ago, Wacky said:

Are you really suggesting you know the inner workings of what the club/manager are and aren’t doing? 
We have apparently spent enough money to cause alarm among some fans, how do you know that some of the players we tried to sign aren’t holding the club to ransom for more money than it’s prudent for us to spend? 
 

Of course I’m not suggesting i know all the details, just like you I’m nothing more than a bam on the internet.  what I can do is speculate based on what I can see as public knowledge, if you don’t want speculation then there’s little point in reading/posting on a forum.

From what I can see the alarming losses are not due to first team spending.

Players will always try to maximise their earnings from a club, it’s up to clubs to say when it’s too much and rightly we should say at times that we won’t pay more than x, what looks to me is that our x number is lower than you would reasonably expect from a club of our turnover. I don’t have anything certain to back that up but I can look at us continently not sign senior pros when others who we could reasonably think we could be competitive budget against have comfortably done so.

Edited February 11 by parsforlife

[Well over Par]

43 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

Has he aye? Can you elaborate?

Also we signed three players in January. 

I doubt those three players even have agents but if they do, they won’t be the same as those currently working in Scotland ? 
 

how exactly do you want me to elaborate without dropping the source right in it ? 
 

 

[Rob1885]

1 hour ago, Wacky said:

Let me guess, some wifey at the butcher told yer next door neighbour? 
you need some bog roll for yer keyboard. 

What you on about

1 hour ago, Wacky said:

Stop posting unsubstantiated nonsense and I won’t call you out on it. 

The nonsense is your posts bud.

[Salvo Montalbano]

It certainly looks like he's not been backed. Multiple players training with the squad (Crawford, McGowan, Wotherspoon) and not getting offers. Players brought in that clearly aren't ready made improvements to the team (the signings were always meant to "improve the team" but even the guys for whom that is true - Otoo and Ritchie-Hosler - took quite a bit of time to get up to speed, so it wasn't that they improved the team straight away when we needed it. Obviously similar can be said about the boys we've brought in this time. The stuff about targets going to Premiership clubs etc, and the stuff about trying to get Brophy in (which was a strange one to go public with IMO) seems to indicate that a lot of the targets were unrealistic - and the impression that we aren't prepared to push the boat out wages wise (while laudable in many regards) would seem to suggest that the board don't know the value of top players in Scotland or think they can low ball players.

I'm not saying all of this is fact, but it's crazy to think that just because people think we've not invested well enough in key areas and that people think that the board have an almost "youth player first, if that doesn't work then any old jobber will do" strategy and that people think that the academy is a laudable aim but maybe should take a back seat until we're established in this division or the one above that these same people have an agenda against the board, are xenophobic or think there is some kind of conspiracy ffs.

[Wacky]

1 hour ago, parsforlife said:

Of course I’m not suggesting i know all the details, just like you I’m nothing more than a bam on the internet.  what I can do is speculate based on what I can see as public knowledge, if you don’t want speculation then there’s little point in reading/posting on a forum.

From what I can see the alarming losses are not due to first team spending.

Players will always try to maximise their earnings from a club, it’s up to clubs to say when it’s too much and rightly we should say at times that we won’t pay more than x, what looks to me is that our x number is lower than you would reasonably expect from a club of our turnover. I don’t have anything certain to back that up but I can look at us continently not sign senior pros when others who we could reasonably think we could be competitive budget against have comfortably done so.

Of course we can all speculate, but some posters are claiming to know things as fact. When you call them out on it they won’t back said facts up. I personally wouldn’t post on here about things I’ve been told in confidence, and people hinting at things they have apparently been told in confidence smacks of attention seeking in my book. 

When called out we had one poster responding like this

1 hour ago, Well over Par said:

how exactly do you want me to elaborate without dropping the source right in it ? 
 

Fair enough, but again I’d ask why say anything if you can’t back it up? 
Then you get what IMO is extremely childish responses like the two I’ve had from @Rob1885  One calling me a “happy clapper” I don’t even know what that means exactly, but it’s the level of totally moronic nonsense I read on dafc.net, the second response from him looks to me like he is trying to provoke me into his level of childish behaviour with more immature name calling. 
I’m baffled by this whole scenario, should I just accept what people say and not question it? 

[Wacky]

1 hour ago, Rob1885 said:

What you on about

The nonsense is your posts bud.

Sigh! 

[Wacky]

36 minutes ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

It certainly looks like he's not been backed. Multiple players training with the squad (Crawford, McGowan, Wotherspoon) and not getting offers.

How do you know they weren’t made an offer? 
ach! Don’t bother answering mate, I’m scunnered asking about these things for one night. 

Edited February 11 by Wacky

[VinnyPar]

The club went on record at the last supporters meeting saying that Wotherspoon was offered a deal that would have made him the highest paid player at the club. 

[DA Baracus]

12 minutes ago, VinnyPar said:

The club went on record at the last supporters meeting saying that Wotherspoon was offered a deal that would have made him the highest paid player at the club. 

Aye but...erm...

History is getting rewritten a bit here. It was claimed that 'The Germans' hired Grant when in fact it was mostly McArthur. It's being claimed, or at least very strongly hinted, that 'The Germans' aren't letting McPake sign experienced players (despite the fact he did with O'Halloran and it was reported that they tried to get Wotherspoon, Brophy and that NZ lad).

I've even some full mask off stuff elsewhere claiming that 'The Germans' are outright stealing money from the club.

[Salvo Montalbano]

26 minutes ago, Wacky said:

How do you know they weren’t made an offer? 
ach! Don’t bother answering mate, I’m scunnered asking about these things for one night. 

Sorry, should have said "acceptable" or "good enough" offers.

22 minutes ago, VinnyPar said:

The club went on record at the last supporters meeting saying that Wotherspoon was offered a deal that would have made him the highest paid player at the club. 

Which tells a story - either that's not true, or Wotherspoon felt the offer was so bad that he'd rather not get any wages for several weeks then go play for Inverness with all the extra travel etc, at a club who famously struggle financially meaning our wage budget is pretty poor for a team with (hopefully) ambitions to finish top 4.

6 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

It's being claimed, or at least very strongly hinted, that 'The Germans' aren't letting McPake sign experienced players (despite the fact he did with O'Halloran and it was reported that they tried to get Wotherspoon, Brophy and that NZ lad).

Tried to... but either didn't want to, or couldn't afford to pay what the guys were wanting either in terms of wages or length of deal. As I said upthread, it looks - it might not be the case, but looks are all we have - as if the board (not I didn't say "the Germans") either underestimate the salary of a Premiership/Championship player (which also partly would explain why some targets we had went to the top tier) or see more experienced players as last resorts rather than a necessity. 

[CallumPar]

This thread has become a car crash, with the last few pages being filled with about 3/4 posters arguing with each other and twisting each others’ words to make them look stupid. Please stop. We all want the same thing, and the reality is nobody on here is likely to be ‘right’ about everything.

Everyone’s entitled to their opinions on things. Everyone’s entitled to draw their own conclusions. If you disagree with someone, you don’t need to keep attacking them. Likewise, if someone disagrees with you, you don’t need to keep going at them. We don’t all have to agree.

It’s honestly getting to the stage that I’ve been avoiding this thread, because it’s just reminding me of .net - which, ironically, most of you criticise because it’s exactly what this thread is in danger of becoming.

For what it’s worth, the facts are that we have failed to sign experienced players when they have been targeted. None of us know why, but the fact that some of these players (like Wotherspoon) have come to train with us, been offered a contract, continued to train etc, suggests that it’s not a case of them just not wanting to come here. It suggests that it comes down to money. What I would say, is that the experienced players we have signed, the vast majority have worked with McPake/Mackay before - which suggests people actually like/want to work with them.

Experienced players will generally ask for more money than youngsters. That’s normal. But a lot of these experienced players will have families to feed, bills to pay etc. their experience is also very valuable on the park and in training - as we have found out. If we have opted not to pay this ‘premium’ for experience and opted for ‘cheaper’ inexperienced players instead, we’re now paying the price. That suggestion doesn’t seem too farfetched, when you look at the business we’ve done in the last 7/8 months. Regardless of what has happened/gone wrong with the offers to experienced players, I’m sure everyone involved is now seeing exactly why you have to pay more for experience.

Players at our level aren’t earning life-changing money and the experienced ones don’t have a long career ahead of them. Their decisions will absolutely come down to money. Just as career decisions will with just about everyone on here - if you have a couple of job offers on the table, one’s offering you £40k per year, the other is offering £45k, which one are you taking?

For the avoidance of doubt, (before people start twisting words to suit their own agenda) this doesn’t mean there’s some kind of agenda by the board/investors. It simply means that mistakes have been made and, to date, haven’t been rectified/fixed.

[The Toun Clock]

11 hours ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

It certainly looks like he's not been backed. Multiple players training with the squad (Crawford, McGowan, Wotherspoon) and not getting offers.

That’s not true. Wotherspoon’s agent advised what he was after. We offered it, then he was advised to hold on and see if something bigger came in despite getting what he wanted whilst training with us. We couldn’t wait any longer so made some other moves, he then came back and asked for more, we said no. Then he came back a while later and asked for the same deal, which was now off the table. The reason David Wotherspoon isn’t a Dunfermline player this season is down to David Wotherspoon/his agent and not the club.

[Well over Par]

10 minutes ago, CallumPar said:

This thread has become a car crash, with the last few pages being filled with about 3/4 posters arguing with each other and twisting each others’ words to make them look stupid. Please stop. We all want the same thing, and the reality is nobody on here is likely to be ‘right’ about everything.

Everyone’s entitled to their opinions on things. Everyone’s entitled to draw their own conclusions. If you disagree with someone, you don’t need to keep attacking them. Likewise, if someone disagrees with you, you don’t need to keep going at them. We don’t all have to agree.

It’s honestly getting to the stage that I’ve been avoiding this thread, because it’s just reminding me of .net - which, ironically, most of you criticise because it’s exactly what this thread is in danger of becoming.

For what it’s worth, the facts are that we have failed to sign experienced players when they have been targeted. None of us know why, but the fact that some of these players (like Wotherspoon) have come to train with us, been offered a contract, continued to train etc, suggests that it’s not a case of them just not wanting to come here. It suggests that it comes down to money. What I would say, is that the experienced players we have signed, the vast majority have worked with McPake/Mackay before - which suggests people actually like/want to work with them.

Experienced players will generally ask for more money than youngsters. That’s normal. But a lot of these experienced players will have families to feed, bills to pay etc. their experience is also very valuable on the park and in training - as we have found out. If we have opted not to pay this ‘premium’ for experience and opted for ‘cheaper’ inexperienced players instead, we’re now paying the price. That suggestion doesn’t seem too farfetched, when you look at the business we’ve done in the last 7/8 months. Regardless of what has happened/gone wrong with the offers to experienced players, I’m sure everyone involved is now seeing exactly why you have to pay more for experience.

Players at our level aren’t earning life-changing money and the experienced ones don’t have a long career ahead of them. Their decisions will absolutely come down to money. Just as career decisions will with just about everyone on here - if you have a couple of job offers on the table, one’s offering you £40k per year, the other is offering £45k, which one are you taking?

For the avoidance of doubt, (before people start twisting words to suit their own agenda) this doesn’t mean there’s some kind of agenda by the board/investors. It simply means that mistakes have been made and, to date, haven’t been rectified/fixed.

 

Excellent post, Callum

[Salvo Montalbano]

34 minutes ago, The Toun Clock said:

That’s not true.

I know, I fixed it in my follow up post. 

[Rob1885]

The Courier have us and Queens Park in for Chris Kane, I'd imagine he'll go there

[DAFC.]

He'll go to Queens Park. It's centre mids we are needing. Allan and Chalmers? Be as well playing with cones in the middle. 

[Wacky]

3 minutes ago, DAFC. said:

He'll go to Queens Park. It's centre mids we are needing. Allan and Chalmers? Be as well playing with cones in the middle. 

I agree we need centre mids, but I’d like to see an experienced defender coming in. I’d also like to see Holmes getting a bit more of a chance, maybe even give him a start in place of McCann, I think he needs a break as he looks spent.