Double Jack D Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I see in the Edinburgh Gazette of 8 March, a new company has been formed - Dunfermline Athletic PLC. I assume that has happened in connection with the share issue? This is what the forthcoming share issue will be for. The separate club and company rule has been well established! Its the only way out of the hole they're in. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 So the current tenants of the Kingsgate unit have been paying rent to DAFC (ie GM) for the past 3 years but nobody at the club has forwarded the money on to the Kingsgate. Now the current occupants are being forced out over non payment of rent. I'd never be stupid enough to call GM a criminal online but... I wouldn't worry about it. GM is so skint the only lawyer he could afford these days would be that guy Hutts from The Simpsons. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordieBoy80 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 And he's deid ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hey! Ho! Jambo! Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 And he's deid ! What? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) What? The guy who voiced Lionel Hutz. Edited March 12, 2013 by Enigma 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hey! Ho! Jambo! Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 The guy who voiced Lionel Hutz. Aye? I thought maybe there was a development like Masterton walking away. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle_do_nicely Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Been keeping an eye on this thread for a while now - hope you can pull through, speaking purely from a football side of things I've seen some really great matches at Firhill between Thistle and Dunfermline over the years. Noticed a couple of mentions of 450k being due to trade creditors - is that something that's only recently come out? How much is the friendly against Man Utd likely to raise, in conjunction with any auctions, fundraising events etc.? On the face of it it's simple - a) Figure out who you owe money to b) Figure out how much money is owed in total, and when it needs to be repaid by c) Figure out how much money you're already generating, and how much you need to make on top of that to remain solvent d) Figure out ways to raise that difference in money - share issue, friendly against high-profile club, auctions, bucket collections, whatever. But from what Leishman has said - fears that fans will be pouring money into a black hole trying to save the club - it sounds like c) is nowhere near going to cover b) in time to save the club. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonsilitis Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Been keeping an eye on this thread for a while now - hope you can pull through, speaking purely from a football side of things I've seen some really great matches at Firhill between Thistle and Dunfermline over the years. Noticed a couple of mentions of 450k being due to trade creditors - is that something that's only recently come out? How much is the friendly against Man Utd likely to raise, in conjunction with any auctions, fundraising events etc.? On the face of it it's simple - a) Figure out who you owe money to b) Figure out how much money is owed in total, and when it needs to be repaid by c) Figure out how much money you're already generating, and how much you need to make on top of that to remain solvent d) Figure out ways to raise that difference in money - share issue, friendly against high-profile club, auctions, bucket collections, whatever. But from what Leishman has said - fears that fans will be pouring money into a black hole trying to save the club - it sounds like c) is nowhere near going to cover b) in time to save the club. There's a lot of round sums being bandied about and I am getting the impression that nobody is very sure exactly how much the club owes. Almost every insolvency case I have ever been involved with, the money due to creditors turns out to be larger than those in charge thought it was. The club keep talking about when debts like VAT and PAYE are due to be paid (using dates I don't recognise as the normal due date for VAT and PAYE) but you have to remember than there will be other debts which exist but have not yet become due. For example, the February VAT quarter has ended and that liability now exists but it is not due to be paid until the end of March. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 This is what the forthcoming share issue will be for. The separate club and company rule has been well established! Its the only way out of the hole they're in. You mean transferring the 'club' from the indebted company to a new debt-free one, and allowing the old indebted company to fail? I thought that was not allowed under SFL rules. Isn't there a rule on corporate restructurings and transfers? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Jack D Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 You mean transferring the 'club' from the indebted company to a new debt-free one, and allowing the old indebted company to fail? I thought that was not allowed under SFL rules. Isn't there a rule on corporate restructurings and transfers? I thought so too but it seems to have worked for Rangers! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Rangers didn't do it in SFL, though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigster00 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Don't you just want to punch that fucking face? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Jack D Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Rangers didn't do it in SFL, though. It was the SFL that let them do it! The SPL told them to go take a flying fook and the SFL welcomed the new company with open arms. I'm no rule guru but, on the face of it, the SFL have allowed the "club" Rangers owned by a new debt free company to continue. If the same was refused to Dunfermline, or any other league club it would be outrageous! I expect, if the Pars liquidate and set up a new company, that they will start next season, history intact, in division 3. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 It was the SFL that let them do it! The SPL told them to go take a flying fook and the SFL welcomed the new company with open arms. I'm no rule guru but, on the face of it, the SFL have allowed the "club" Rangers owned by a new debt free company to continue. If the same was refused to Dunfermline, or any other league club it would be outrageous! I expect, if the Pars liquidate and set up a new company, that they will start next season, history intact, in division 3. I think most people realise it doesnt work like that unless you happen to be a bigoted team from Glasgow. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) You missed my point - Rangers OldCo were in SPL, they went into liquidation, they transferred 'the club' to NewCo but SPL said "naw" (it's allowed in SPL but only with permission), then applied to join SFL. Dunfermline are already in SFL. Rule 13: MEMBERSHIP NOT TRANSFERRABLE Membership of the League (whether full or associate) shall not be transferrable, save that (a) a Member wishing to change its legal form (whether from unincorporated association to corporate body or otherwise where the ownership and control of both bodies are or will be substantially identical); or (b) a transfer within the same administrative group for the purposes of a solvent reconstruction only; may be permitted by the Board upon prior written application for consent and giving such details of the proposed transfer as the Board may reasonably request for the purpose of considering such transfer. Edited March 12, 2013 by HibeeJibee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Jack D Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 You missed my point - Rangers OldCo were in SPL, they went into liquidation, they transferred 'the club' to NewCo but SPL said "naw" (it's allowed in SPL but only with permission), then applied to join SFL. Dunfermline are already in SFL. I know all that.... sheesh, do you think I've been living under a rock Dunfermline go bust, get ejected, apply to join under a newco uncontested, get accepted, start in Div 3. That's what I'd expect to happen if Scottish football treats all clubs the same. I think Dazzle gets my point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Ah, I see. Yes, I suppose that would be the only way to do it, you'd be relying on SFA giving you the current membership too of course. Good luck with all that...!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Jack D Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Why not? Precedent been set... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 There's a lot of round sums being bandied about and I am getting the impression that nobody is very sure exactly how much the club owes. Almost every insolvency case I have ever been involved with, the money due to creditors turns out to be larger than those in charge thought it was. The club keep talking about when debts like VAT and PAYE are due to be paid (using dates I don't recognise as the normal due date for VAT and PAYE) but you have to remember than there will be other debts which exist but have not yet become due. For example, the February VAT quarter has ended and that liability now exists but it is not due to be paid until the end of March. The February VAT quarter will be due for payment on or around 10th April, not the end of March. Only a 10 day difference I accept but worth pointing out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoBNob Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 If Dunfermline get liquidated it would be impossible for us to come back as a NewCo next season, impossible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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