Supras Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) What has Ballack achieved since leaving Chelsea? Cole was still a young guy when Liverpool signed him. He's Arsenal's top scorer, and they are a top 4 club, clearly. He's having a fantastic season, and is by far their best forward, which is actually a nightmare for Arsenal. 8 goals and 6 assists in only 9 starts and 7 subbie appearances in the BPL. Ooooft - that's good. That's really really good. I still think he will stay there in the end, but if he chooses to leave he will have his choice of Chelsea, Man U and Man City, as he will be free, and in the case of all three demanding a wage that is easily within their boundaries to pay him especially considering he will cost nothing up front, and he's at an excellent age. Theo Walcott is a brilliant player. Uhm, a brilliant season with Leverkusen? Of course, by not becoming a shit joke Ballack has achieved much more than Cole. And who cares about age? Owen isn't that old but has similarly been finished for many years now. Cole, whilst never that good in the first place, was a fucking shell by the time Chelsea gladly got shot of him. Walcott is not a brilliant player, although I know this has been your hobby horse for some time, he is an extremely limited player and displays his latent limitations on a regular basis even now. His game relies solely on pace and it is something he will likely lose soon enough - much like Owen (who was a far superior player). If either of those team sign up Walcott on a 4 year deal then they will get one year maximum out of him. Arsenal are holding back because they know Walcott really can't do better than them and the notion he wants to be paid more than Santi Cazorla should be insulting to footballing fans around the world. But we'll see in time. What is inexcusable is your use of "BPL" - what the actual fact? Come on now Edited January 5, 2013 by Supras 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jm1 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Uhm, a brilliant season with Leverkusen? I'm guessing you didn't watch him then as he was dreadful in his second spell with Leverkusen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) Uhm, a brilliant season with Leverkusen? O Really?? Really? (Jan 2012) "The day before, Leverkusen's CEO, Wolfgang Holzhäuser, had declared "project Ballack" to have failed, explaining that the club had expected more from the player and that they were disappointed with his behaviour. Bayer's disillusion was so strong that Holzhäuser even offered up the player for a quick-fire sale four months before the end of his contract. "If there's a club that is interested, we would talk," the 52-year-old said. "His return to Leverkusen was unsuccessful with Ballack sidelined with injuries or benched under former coach Robin Dutt. Club president Wolfgang Holzhaeuser said this year Ballack had failed to deliver in his second spell at the club." f course, by not becoming a shit joke Ballack has achieved much more than Cole. And who cares about age? Owen isn't that old but has similarly been finished for many years now. Cole, whilst never that good in the first place, was a fucking shell by the time Chelsea gladly got shot of him. Neither of the pair of them have achieved anything since leaving Chelsea. Ballack was absolutely done. Walcott is not a brilliant player, although I know this has been your hobby horse for some time, he is an extremely limited player and displays his latent limitations on a regular basis even now. 8 goals and 6 assists in 9 starts. Limited. Aye, right you are. Edited January 5, 2013 by H_B 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supras Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 I'm guessing you didn't watch him then as he was dreadful in his second spell with Leverkusen. Good point, I think I was sidetracked because he had a decent start. Didn't Germany still want to cap him though? Either way, he's a much better player than Cole and would have been leading Germany in the World Cup had he not been injured before the tournament. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supras Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 8 goals and 6 assists in 9 starts. Limited. Aye, right you are. Of course he's limited Have you ever seen him play? Like, ever? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Of course he's limited Have you ever seen him play? Like, ever? Yes. I have seen him score lots of goals and provide many many assists over the past 2 seasons. Do you have any idea what Walcott's goals and assists record is for the past 2 seasons? Any guesses? Where do you think it puts him overall in the Premiership? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supras Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Yes. I have seen him score lots of goals and provide many many assists over the past 2 seasons. Do you have any idea what Walcott's goals and assists record is for the past 2 seasons? Any guesses? Where do you think it puts him overall in the Premiership? But you don't think he's a limited player? Gotcha, think I might ignore your clearly blinkered views from now on. Thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
govan_loyal_1872 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Uhm, a brilliant season with Leverkusen? Of course, by not becoming a shit joke Ballack has achieved much more than Cole. And who cares about age? Owen isn't that old but has similarly been finished for many years now. Cole, whilst never that good in the first place, was a fucking shell by the time Chelsea gladly got shot of him. Walcott is not a brilliant player, although I know this has been your hobby horse for some time, he is an extremely limited player and displays his latent limitations on a regular basis even now. His game relies solely on pace and it is something he will likely lose soon enough - much like Owen (who was a far superior player). If either of those team sign up Walcott on a 4 year deal then they will get one year maximum out of him. Arsenal are holding back because they know Walcott really can't do better than them and the notion he wants to be paid more than Santi Cazorla should be insulting to footballing fans around the world. But we'll see in time. What is inexcusable is your use of "BPL" - what the actual fact? Come on now lol , your silly 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) But you don't think he's a limited player? Gotcha, think I might ignore your clearly blinkered views from now on. Thanks. Every player in the world is limited. Lionel Messi included. If you take the word at its truest sense, which would be stupidity. No player is good at every facet of the game. But people who call Theo Walcott limited are immensely thick. It's noticeable that they run away and hide when his phenomenal stats are produced. You don't score the goals he does and provide the assists he does if you are a limited player. He is a huge talent and will either become Arsenal's best paid player, or will move to a bigger club in the summer a la RVP. Edited January 5, 2013 by H_B 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supras Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 lol , your silly And you're a alias. And not a very clever one. Every player in the world is limited. Lionel Messi included. If you take the word at its truest sense, which would be stupidity. No player is good at every facet of the game. But people who call Theo Walcott limited are immensely thick. It's noticeable that they run away and hide when his phenomenal stats are produced. You don't score the goals he does and provide the assists he does if you are a limited player. He is a huge talent and will either become Arsenal's best paid player, or will move to a bigger club in the summer a la RVP. Yes, except Walcott is extremely limited. His decision making is dreadful and his only redeeming attribute is his pace. Much like Agbonlahor if he wasn't quick, he would be utter shit. And when he loses his pace he'll be utter shit. We'll see where he moves, and until then I'll treat your wanton hyperbole and crass insults with the contempt they deserve. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54_and_counting Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 His game relies solely on pace and it is something he will likely lose soon enough - much like Owen (who was a far superior player). If either of those team sign up Walcott on a 4 year deal then they will get one year maximum out of him. walcott is only 23 ffs, there is no way he is going to lose that much pace in a year if he does lose any plus he still has a good couple of seasons to hone other skills for the inevitable loss of pace in his late 20's, 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) Yes, except Walcott is extremely limited. His decision making is dreadful Right, so in the last season and a half he has scored 25 goals and provided 18 assists in only 53 starts. How exactly has he managed this, with such a limited skill set and such bad decision making? Robin Van Persie didn't seem to have any issues with his decision making... (Feb 2012) "I love him, I honestly love him," said Van Persie. "I don't understand the criticism. On Saturday he gave three very clear assists, two for me and one for Alex. "He was sharp, he was playing fantastically and, like anyone, he misses chances. But I miss chances. Ronaldo misses chances, Messi misses chances. It's life, you know. "Sometimes I feel that people are a bit harsh on him. I don't know why. If you look at his assists rate then it is unbelievable. "And he will score. Trust me, he will score. He will get 20 goals at least every season. You will see. Have faith in him. "He has given me so many assists. And for me, if you give an assist then it is worth a goal, especially if you give a great assist. It is as important as scoring a goal. For me he gave two simple tap-ins. That makes it more his goal than my goal." Edited January 5, 2013 by H_B 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coooombe Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Supras just give up, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. The "Ballack was brilliant at Leverkusen" point was the icing on the cake 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supras Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 walcott is only 23 ffs, there is no way he is going to lose that much pace in a year if he does lose any plus he still has a good couple of seasons to hone other skills for the inevitable loss of pace in his late 20's, He will. His career started very early and a few niggly hamstring injuries and he'll be done. Totally done. Right, so in the last season and a half he has scored 25 goals and provided 18 assists in only 53 starts. How exactly has he managed this, with such a limited skill set and such bad decision making? Robin Van Persie didn't seem to have any issues with his decision making... (Feb 2012) "I love him, I honestly love him," said Van Persie. "I don't understand the criticism. On Saturday he gave three very clear assists, two for me and one for Alex. "He was sharp, he was playing fantastically and, like anyone, he misses chances. But I miss chances. Ronaldo misses chances, Messi misses chances. It's life, you know. "Sometimes I feel that people are a bit harsh on him. I don't know why. If you look at his assists rate then it is unbelievable. "And he will score. Trust me, he will score. He will get 20 goals at least every season. You will see. Have faith in him. "He has given me so many assists. And for me, if you give an assist then it is worth a goal, especially if you give a great assist. It is as important as scoring a goal. For me he gave two simple tap-ins. That makes it more his goal than my goal." My response: 'Anything Messi can do, Joe [Cole] can do as well, if not better' From Steven Gerrard. Footballers usually talk absolute pish, but it seems with their own team mates especially. I couldn't care in the slightest what a, presumed zoomer, like Robin Van Persie thinks. Walcott relentlessly wastes possession and chances. Even when he scored his hattrick he was set free running at one defender at a counter and fell over the ball and played it backwards. Or when he got through on goal and passed it back to the opposition goalkeeper. His play is sometimes good, and sometimes awe inspiringly terrible. And I'm hardly alone in this opinion, it's something that's been labelled at Walcott by pretty much everyone. Because it's true. As I said, we'll see where he goes. Until then your ridiculous hyperbole and uncited quotes will be absolutely meaningless. Supras just give up, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. The "Ballack was brilliant at Leverkusen" point was the icing on the cake Thanks Coooombe. Now please never post again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle_do_nicely Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 He will. His career started very early and a few niggly hamstring injuries and he'll be done. Totally done. My response: This ignores the "25 goals and provided 18 assists in only 53 starts" bit, though. Which reads as being fairly impressive. I'd be asking a) how many sub appearances does that goal and assist tally include - saying he has 25 goals and 18 assists in only 53 starts reads to me like there's a fair few sub appearances being left out. Which can make a massive difference; if you look at Dzeko at City's career, for example, and were only counting starts it'd look a lot less impressive than if you include sub appearances. b) how many of those goals/assists came in the Carling Cup/FA Cup? c) similarly, how many were in the Champions League, and from how many appearances? and finally d) of those league goals, who have they been scored against? Scoring loads of goals against relegation fodder is still a handy trait to have but I'd also like to know what his record is like in the big games - Man City, Man Utd and Chelsea, games which are the difference between mid-table mediocrity and genuine title contenders. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supras Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 This ignores the "25 goals and provided 18 assists in only 53 starts" bit, though. Which reads as being fairly impressive. It doesn't ignore it - I have nothing to say about it. He's an extremely limited player who can't do any better than Arsenal and is a significantly inferior footballer to, say, Cazorla. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54_and_counting Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 He will. His career started very early and a few niggly hamstring injuries and he'll be done. Totally done. have you also got this weeks euromillions numbers there 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 It doesn't ignore it - I have nothing to say about it. Oh, I bet you haven't. You don't like stats much when they bear your opinion out to be complete and utter gash do you? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 (edited) I'd be asking a) how many sub appearances does that goal and assist tally include - saying he has 25 goals and 18 assists in only 53 starts reads to me like there's a fair few sub appearances being left out. Which can make a massive difference; if you look at Dzeko at City's career, for example, and were only counting starts it'd look a lot less impressive than if you include sub appearances. b) how many of those goals/assists came in the Carling Cup/FA Cup? c) similarly, how many were in the Champions League, and from how many appearances? and finally d) of those league goals, who have they been scored against? Scoring loads of goals against relegation fodder is still a handy trait to have but I'd also like to know what his record is like in the big games - Man City, Man Utd and Chelsea, games which are the difference between mid-table mediocrity and genuine title contenders. And all of these are fair points, though they of course also ignore the fact that he has rarely played as a forward in the true sense. He's often been out wide, which means he has defensive duties that he wouldn't have playing the "Van Persie" role, which he has a bit of late. He's scored a hat trick for England in Croatia in international football as well as in the Euros in the summer, as well as scoring 2 at The Emirates to turn that game on its head in the North London derby last season, along with goals against Man Utd at Old Trafford, Chelsea at Stamford Bridge to name but two. Last season he had 41 starts and 5 subbie appearances, during which time he scored 11 goals and provided 12 assists. He picked up an injury in the spring just when he was flying, which pretty much ruled him out of the rest of the season. This season he has started 10 (with 7 as sub) in the BPL, started 2 in the League Cup and started once (with 2 as subs) in the Champs League, and has scored 8 in the BPL, 5 in the League Cup and 1 in the Champs League respectively. He already has 6 assists in his 10+7 games in the BPL. As I said, exceptional talent. He doesn't take the penalties either which would bump his stats up by 5-8 at least a season if he did. How many has Balotelli scored over the past season and a half and how many of them have been penalties? Edited January 6, 2013 by H_B 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 (edited) I don't think he takes the corners though, which as we all know is the mark of a real player Edited January 6, 2013 by H_B 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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