nelSONS fan Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Well effectively they have a majority on that. However there are provisions in the Articles of Association of DFC which relate to the sale of the company's heritable assets. DFC haven't had an AGM for quite some time so there hasn't yet been the opportunity for discussion on this. you just saying businessy words noo wilf? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Quitely Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Well effectively they have a majority on that. However there are provisions in the Articles of Association of DFC which relate to the sale of the company's heritable assets. DFC haven't had an AGM for quite some time so there hasn't yet been the opportunity for discussion on this. I get the impression Wilf that Brabco and their agents won't be worrying overly much about Articles of Association and Golden Shares, etc., They arrived here with the express intention of relocating DFC in order to generate a return on their investment, and market conditions having put that on hold for a few years they'll be very keen to now make that happen; if that requires steamrollering obstructions I'll bet that's just what they'll do. We should bear this in mind when the prospectus is laid out later this week, and also consider that Brabco's interests don't necessarily coincide with those of DFC. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowhereman Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I get the impression Wilf that Brabco and their agents won't be worrying overly much about Articles of Association and Golden Shares, etc., They arrived here with the express intention of relocating DFC in order to generate a return on their investment, and market conditions having put that on hold for a few years they'll be very keen to now make that happen; if that requires steamrollering obstructions I'll bet that's just what they'll do. We should bear this in mind when the prospectus is laid out later this week, and also consider that Brabco's interests don't necessarily coincide with those of DFC. Indeed. And it would be one thing if they intended to sell the ground to the highest bidder. At least then we would be assured of getting market value. But as they will be selling 'in house' how do we guarantee that the club receive the best possible price rather than as little as it takes to build a less than average stadium elsewhere. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thommo90 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Won't be able to make it to the stadium to see what's being proposed due to work, but hope anyone that goes fires off loads of questions to make sure this is going to work for us. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the auld son Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Won't be able to make it to the stadium to see what's being proposed due to work, but hope anyone that goes fires off loads of questions to make sure this is going to work for us Sonstrust are holding a general meeting on 26th Nov at the Abbotsford - you can come along to that for info. Simon and Alan will answer as best they can 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Won't be able to make it to the stadium to see what's being proposed due to work, but hope anyone that goes fires off loads of questions to make sure this is going to work for us. I get the distinct feeling that all of this isn't about making it work for DFC but I guess we'll see over the next few weeks. As auld son says, everyone should get down to this and the Sonstrust meeting if they can. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Wilf Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I get the impression Wilf that Brabco and their agents won't be worrying overly much about Articles of Association and Golden Shares, etc., They arrived here with the express intention of relocating DFC in order to generate a return on their investment, and market conditions having put that on hold for a few years they'll be very keen to now make that happen; if that requires steamrollering obstructions I'll bet that's just what they'll do. We should bear this in mind when the prospectus is laid out later this week, and also consider that Brabco's interests don't necessarily coincide with those of DFC. Steamrollers are only good for flattening prepared ground. They aren't great when it comes to obstructions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Wilf Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 you just saying businessy words noo wilf? Aye. Happy to help with anything you don't understand 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Wilf Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Indeed. And it would be one thing if they intended to sell the ground to the highest bidder. At least then we would be assured of getting market value. But as they will be selling 'in house' how do we guarantee that the club receive the best possible price rather than as little as it takes to build a less than average stadium elsewhere. I think they would sell to the highest bidder. I may have the wrong impression but I don't think that Denny's Homes has ever built a house. I doubt if they ever will. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Son from the Rock Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 I get the impression Wilf that Brabco and their agents won't be worrying overly much about Articles of Association and Golden Shares, etc., They arrived here with the express intention of relocating DFC in order to generate a return on their investment, and market conditions having put that on hold for a few years they'll be very keen to now make that happen; if that requires steamrollering obstructions I'll bet that's just what they'll do. We should bear this in mind when the prospectus is laid out later this week, and also consider that Brabco's interests don't necessarily coincide with those of DFC. You seem to infer that market conditions have changed re. building luxury homes in Dumbarton. Do Turnberry Homes who own the site opposite know this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallochSonsFan Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 I get the distinct feeling that all of this isn't about making it work for DFC but I guess we'll see over the next few weeks. As auld son says, everyone should get down to this and the Sonstrust meeting if they can. This absolutely isn't about making it work for DFC. It's about returning a profit for the investors. There are several areas from the initial proposal that give me real concern. The devil is always in the detail with these things so, as you say, attendance at the open consultation and the Trust meeting is vital. Ask the difficult questions, get as much information as possible and if the owners/developers can't give satisfactory answers then don't be fobbed off with unrealistic promises. The Sonstrust will only be effective in protecting our interests if members play an active role and that means getting as much information as possible. I'm not suggesting that we're awkward for the sake of it but if they can't answer the important questions then we've done our job as fans in scrutinising their proposals. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Quitely Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 You seem to infer that market conditions have changed re. building luxury homes in Dumbarton. Do Turnberry Homes who own the site opposite know this? Where exactly did I mention luxury homes ? I expect that the plans will be for more of the types of homes that are already adjacent to the football ground - overpriced but hardly luxury. Brabco/Denny Homes are acting now because the land on which the BB(bankrupt)S sits has increased in value to make their plans potentially viable. And if you check I think you'll find that Turnberry divested themselves of the old Blackburn site some time ago. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the auld son Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Funding for new Stadium This seems to be the biggest question, I read that WDC have a £20 m black hole ,,,so that rules them out Denny homes ltd do not have a credit history that I can see, so this would mean someone putting money up, I have heard the online bookmakers Bet Butler have their own financial black hole. Anyone out there got a wee windfall from the lottery ???? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallochSonsFan Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Initial funding isnt necessarily the big concern for me. It would be pretty simple for us to sell the current ground for £X, buy the new ground for £Y and then use the remaining money to fund the construction of the ground. It's the values of X and Y I'd be concerned about. Thats the clearest way that Brabco make money - buy the Youngs land cheap, sell a plot to Dumbarton FC for a big mark-up and then make additional profit selling remaining plots to other businesses. But the proposal is for 4000 capacity which will be delivered in phases. Beyond the Cat A games, we're not in a position to sell out the BB. Phase 1 is likely to be the construcion of a single 2,000 capacity stand much like we have currently. What happens for phases 2, 3 and 4? What would the criteria be for building the extra capacity? What will the funding model be for building the extra capacity? Are we ringfencing some of the profit from selling the current ground in the hope that in the dim and distant future we'll grow our fanbase beyond a 2000 capacity ground? Or do Brabco ride off into the sunset with that money and we're then left with no slush fund to fulfil the original plans for stadium capacity? Who makes money from the ancilary businesses? Who'll run the community pitches? Who'll receive rent for commercial property build beside the ground? If the development attracts a pub/restaurant/fast food franchise who's main source of income is matchday revenue then why shouldn't their commercial rent be paid to the club? I can just about accept that we could sell the current ground first and then use the money to fund an initial 2000 capacity stand on the new site, with a season or two spent ground sharing. It's everything else about the plan (as little as I know of it so far) that troubles me. If they're promising a 4,000 capacity ground to be built in phases, whats the guarantee that we'll ever see completion of the project? Or that we'll get the infrastructure upgrades needed to get fans to and from the ground? Or that we'll see additional revenue sources from businesses attracted to the development? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Pete Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Can those in attendance tonight report back on here? I can't make it down due to a prior engagement. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the auld son Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 (edited) Initial funding isnt necessarily the big concern for me. It would be pretty simple for us to sell the current ground for £X, buy the new ground for £Y and then use the remaining money to fund the construction of the ground. It's the values of X and Y I'd be concerned about. Thats the clearest way that Brabco make money - buy the Youngs land cheap, sell a plot to Dumbarton FC for a big mark-up and then make additional profit selling remaining plots to other businesses. But the proposal is for 4000 capacity which will be delivered in phases. Beyond the Cat A games, we're not in a position to sell out the BB. Phase 1 is likely to be the construcion of a single 2,000 capacity stand much like we have currently. What happens for phases 2, 3 and 4? What would the criteria be for building the extra capacity? What will the funding model be for building the extra capacity? Are we ringfencing some of the profit from selling the current ground in the hope that in the dim and distant future we'll grow our fanbase beyond a 2000 capacity ground? Or do Brabco ride off into the sunset with that money and we're then left with no slush fund to fulfil the original plans for stadium capacity? Who makes money from the ancilary businesses? Who'll run the community pitches? Who'll receive rent for commercial property build beside the ground? If the development attracts a pub/restaurant/fast food franchise who's main source of income is matchday revenue then why shouldn't their commercial rent be paid to the club? I can just about accept that we could sell the current ground first and then use the money to fund an initial 2000 capacity stand on the new site, with a season or two spent ground sharing. It's everything else about the plan (as little as I know of it so far) that troubles me. If they're promising a 4,000 capacity ground to be built in phases, whats the guarantee that we'll ever see completion of the project? Or that we'll get the infrastructure upgrades needed to get fans to and from the ground? Or that we'll see additional revenue sources from businesses attracted to the development? Re your reference to ground share, it's not an option as far as I'm concerned, Remember Cliftonhill, and the years of nomadic football at Hamilton Accies ,Clyde, and Clydebank It's easy for developers to renage on promises as these three clubs show. https://footballmanagement.wordpress.com/ Check John's blog ,plenty history similar to ours makes very interesting readin Edited November 6, 2014 by the auld son 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Can those in attendance tonight report back on here? I can't make it down due to a prior engagement. I'm heading down about half 5, will try and get some photos up so everyone can see it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallochSonsFan Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 I work flex time and I was in the office for 7 this morning so I could finish early. I'll probably work til about 3 (I'm owed a couple of hours as well) and then head down to the BB. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Initial funding isn't necessarily the big concern for me. It would be pretty simple for us to sell the current ground for £X, buy the new ground for £Y and then use the remaining money to fund the construction of the ground. It's the values of X and Y I'd be concerned about. Thats the clearest way that Brabco make money - buy the Youngs land cheap, sell a plot to Dumbarton FC for a big mark-up and then make additional profit selling remaining plots to other businesses. But the proposal is for 4000 capacity which will be delivered in phases. Beyond the Cat A games, we're not in a position to sell out the BB. Phase 1 is likely to be the construction of a single 2,000 capacity stand much like we have currently. What happens for phases 2, 3 and 4? What would the criteria be for building the extra capacity? What will the funding model be for building the extra capacity? Are we ringfencing some of the profit from selling the current ground in the hope that in the dim and distant future we'll grow our fanbase beyond a 2000 capacity ground? Or do Brabco ride off into the sunset with that money and we're then left with no slush fund to fulfil the original plans for stadium capacity? Who makes money from the ancillary businesses? Who'll run the community pitches? Who'll receive rent for commercial property build beside the ground? If the development attracts a pub/restaurant/fast food franchise who's main source of income is matchday revenue then why shouldn't their commercial rent be paid to the club? I can just about accept that we could sell the current ground first and then use the money to fund an initial 2000 capacity stand on the new site, with a season or two spent ground sharing. It's everything else about the plan (as little as I know of it so far) that troubles me. If they're promising a 4,000 capacity ground to be built in phases, whats the guarantee that we'll ever see completion of the project? Or that we'll get the infrastructure upgrades needed to get fans to and from the ground? Or that we'll see additional revenue sources from businesses attracted to the development? This sums up my thoughts exactly. I'm concerned we'll end up with a stadium similar to the one we have now, in the middle of nowhere and without the terracing and other facilities promised as Brabco disappear off with a very decent profit. Can those in attendance tonight report back on here? I can't make it down due to a prior engagement. Will do. I'm taking a notebook with questions that I've made up to get answered. I'm really, really cool. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
optimistic Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Re the Abbotsford sonstrust meeting, do you have to be a member to attend? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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