Sons' sorrow

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

Just now, Third Son from the Rock said:

The best work of conmen is leaving you believing that you haven't been conned.

If you don't think that the non receipt of £35k promised sponsorship from a fking charlatan (who's previous company Bet Butler never came across with money either) doesn't affect the manager's budget then there is no point in discussing it with you.

No point discussing it with me? Don’t come on here throwing around cryptic shite then, just come out with it. How is anyone else supposed to know that? It isn’t public knowledge.

Quite clearly if they aren’t stumping up sponsorship money then that directly impacts his budget. 

Where did you get that information from?

[FifeSons]

Another manager’s fund could’ve be a shout prior to January. But with the cost of living skyrocketing and impact of covid on everyone’s finances, I can’t imagine we’d raise much. Not to mention the current apathy amongst the fan base due to the performances being served up.

Also, I’m not sure there’d be any point entrusting Farrell with it. 
 

Probably not a good shout at all, actually.

[Guest]

What I simply can’t get my head around is how far we have fell. 
 

we play like we are 11 men put together for a Sunday league game depending on who’s the least rough from the night before. We have no style of play at all. 
what sticks out for me is the Montrose game and Peterhead games at home. Both clubs with a style of play. Young guys out to prove themselves, well drilled, well set up and never panicked. Night and day! 
 

How has our football club become such a hard sell? 
where are the resurgent young sons that tried there best to bring some atmosphere? 
 

Gone are the days before we went up to the championship where our we club had their “raise the rock days” Flags all across the railing at the home end? A Community club with a decent atmosphere and welcoming of its community and its younger supporters! 
 

It’s amazing where we ended up really but what’s more amazing is how far we have let ourselves fall! People talk of Celtic falling asleep at the wheel in their attempt for 10 in a row? What about us and not making the most of our jump up to the championship? 
 

Owners obsessed with a stadium move etc and directors too hung up on money coming in to realise that, that was the time to offer free season tickets to under 12s? Encourage more people down to the games against the bigger clubs with their families? I mean Arbroath are a prime example of how it could’ve been…1100 season tickets sold. Amazing really. 

Flooding money in to a team to get us back up with the same man still at the helm who hopelessly took us down? Instead of rebuilding what we failed to maintain? 
 

There’s a massive lack of professionalism in Dumbarton FC. From top to bottom. Off the field we don’t show enough initiative to try and make our club an easy sell for investors players anyone really. 
On the pitch? Theirs junior teams that are better run than us. A prime example of that is Clydebank. They have a higher degree of professionalism. They have better investments that have benefited the club. An Astro pitch too, I mean no one likes them pitches but they are better for the club. 
 

Watch this space though. If things continue to go the way they have been going the last 4/5 years. We won’t survive and Clydebank will have taken our place. 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, FifeSons said:

Another manager’s fund could’ve be a shout prior to January. But with the cost of living skyrocketing and impact of covid on everyone’s finances, I can’t imagine we’d raise much. Not to mention the current apathy amongst the fan base due to the performances being served up.

Also, I’m not sure there’d be any point entrusting Farrell with it. 
 

Probably not a good shout at all, actually.

Could count in one hand how many people would give money whilst Farrell remains in charge 

 

[Third Son from the Rock]

12 minutes ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

No point discussing it with me? Don’t come on here throwing around cryptic shite then, just come out with it. How is anyone else supposed to know that? It isn’t public knowledge.

Quite clearly if they aren’t stumping up sponsorship money then that directly impacts his budget. 

Where did you get that information from?

Companies House reckons that Moreroom's total worth is £17,500. Using your skill and judgement, have a guess how much of the promised £35k they have stumped up (remembering that this is a Hosie company). Nothing I have highlighted is cryptic. It's all in the public domain.

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Third Son from the Rock

[FifeSons]

4 minutes ago, DobbiesAgent said:

What I simply can’t get my head around is how far we have fell. 
 

we play like we are 11 men put together for a Sunday league game depending on who’s the least rough from the night before. We have no style of play at all. 
what sticks out for me is the Montrose game and Peterhead games at home. Both clubs with a style of play. Young guys out to prove themselves, well drilled, well set up and never panicked. Night and day! 
 

How has our football club become such a hard sell? 
where are the resurgent young sons that tried there best to bring some atmosphere? 
 

Gone are the days before we went up to the championship where our we club had their “raise the rock days” Flags all across the railing at the home end? A Community club with a decent atmosphere and welcoming of its community and its younger supporters! 
 

It’s amazing where we ended up really but what’s more amazing is how far we have let ourselves fall! People talk of Celtic falling asleep at the wheel in their attempt for 10 in a row? What about us and not making the most of our jump up to the championship? 
 

Owners obsessed with a stadium move etc and directors too hung up on money coming in to realise that, that was the time to offer free season tickets to under 12s? Encourage more people down to the games against the bigger clubs with their families? I mean Arbroath are a prime example of how it could’ve been…1100 season tickets sold. Amazing really. 

Flooding money in to a team to get us back up with the same man still at the helm who hopelessly took us down? Instead of rebuilding what we failed to maintain? 
 

There’s a massive lack of professionalism in Dumbarton FC. From top to bottom. Off the field we don’t show enough initiative to try and make our club an easy sell for investors players anyone really. 
On the pitch? Theirs junior teams that are better run than us. A prime example of that is Clydebank. They have a higher degree of professionalism. They have better investments that have benefited the club. An Astro pitch too, I mean no one likes them pitches but they are better for the club. 
 

Watch this space though. If things continue to go the way they have been going the last 4/5 years. We won’t survive and Clydebank will have taken our place. 

I think we badly need the club in the fan’s hands, in order to survive long-term. The figures involved are totally unrealistic, though.

[microdave]

Another manager’s fund could’ve be a shout prior to January. But with the cost of living skyrocketing and impact of covid on everyone’s finances, I can’t imagine we’d raise much. Not to mention the current apathy amongst the fan base due to the performances being served up.
Also, I’m not sure there’d be any point entrusting Farrell with it. 
 
Probably not a good shout at all, actually.

The manager's fund is still going afaik. The club could do more to publicise it though. There's been no mention of it on the os since it was used for Calum Wilson's contract on the 6th October. There should be a link to it on the sidebar imo.

[microdave]

I'm fed up seeing Aitken on the league 1 page so I'm just posting the last dfc related pic on my phone so we see this instead.

[BallochSonsFan]

22 minutes ago, Third Son from the Rock said:

Companies House reckons that Moreroom's total worth is £17,500. Using your skill and judgement, have a guess how much of the promised £35k they have stumped up (remembering that this is a Hosie company). Nothing I have highlighted is cryptic. It's all in the public domain.

 

Moreroom isnt a Hosie company. The actual link with Hosie is probably similar to the original Brabco in that people involved with it have been sold an investment opportunity or have been brought in for their particular skillset that the ownership vehicle needs.

There are some specific concerns with the ownership and how that impacts on the club and some general concerns. Specifically the alleged non-payment of sponsorship money directly impacts on our ability to sign players. £35,000 sponsorship money could be the difference between a competent defender and our current back line. It could be the difference between a goal scoring striker and the ones we've got. At our level it's a lot of money. If that money hasn't been paid to the club then its money we can't spend. There's also the issue that we could potentially have sold sponsorship rights to another company. Perhaps not for £35k, but actual hard cash being handed over is far better than the promise of more money that never actually arrives. in that respect then the non-payment of sponsorship money would be a serious issue.

Beyond that there's the granting of security on land around the club. In short if the club doesnt control the full value of that land and it needed to raise funds urgently then that cuts off a potential source of funding. Thats a major problem. I'd suggest that any deal that offers a benefit to somebody other than the club derived from a football club asset is an inherently bad one. If we needed to raise funds to address an emergency then we couldn't borrow against the land that has planning permission, or flat out sell it to a developer, because security has been granted to a third party. That should never have been allowed to happen and is potentially very problematic from a legal viewpoint and the various responsibilities set out in companies law.

There's also the 3rd problem with our current ownership - neglect. We've lost the chairman, secretary/CFO and 2 non-exec directors. Thats a massive local talent loss. Fans  are discussing whether or not the board should sack the manager but they should equally be asking exactly who within the club would make that decision? Who is there on the board of directors right now who would be expected to look after football matters? Colin Hosie is probably the one with the most football administration experience and we're fortunate that we've got Antonia working for us with her experience within football club administration. We've got a passionate trust director who remains as a conduit between trust and club board. Neil Mackay was my GP and I respect him enormously as a person - he's a thoroughly decent guy - but that doesnt qualify him to be chairman of a football club at a time of crisis. It may well suit Andy Hosie and the current club ownership to continue to be hands off: They might not be willing to intentionally and deliberately sink the club, but failing to prevent it's collapse may be an outcome that they wouldn't object to.

None of that makes our current on field problems in any way acceptable. We've got a manager who is failing to get the best from his players and a squad full of guys in poor form or simply not good enough for this level of football. We should be asking serious questions of the management and playing staff. Unfortunately there is a degree of impact on Farrell and his players from our off field problems. Whether it''s allegedly missing sponsorship money, poor  leadership at club board level or problems at ownership level, the situation off the field undoubtedly feeds into our problems on it. It also gives us a real issue as to who within the club is willing, and able, to try and affect change. Right now we're a ship with a hole below the water line, an inexperienced crew and a captain who doesnt seem to care if we sink. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, BallochSonsFan said:

a captain who doesnt seem to care if we sink. 

Whilst this is mentioned….the lack of any type of leader or on field captain is also part of our problem. 
 

no one looks like they give a flying fk

[Third Son from the Rock]

2 minutes ago, BallochSonsFan said:

Moreroom isnt a Hosie company.

LOL

[microdave]

Brabco are still a company but with only one director. And he was appointed ten days after his appointment to the board of dfc.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/06326746/officers

[Robertsons]

26 minutes ago, BallochSonsFan said:

Moreroom isnt a Hosie company. The actual link with Hosie is probably similar to the original Brabco in that people involved with it have been sold an investment opportunity or have been brought in for their particular skillset that the ownership vehicle needs.

There are some specific concerns with the ownership and how that impacts on the club and some general concerns. Specifically the alleged non-payment of sponsorship money directly impacts on our ability to sign players. £35,000 sponsorship money could be the difference between a competent defender and our current back line. It could be the difference between a goal scoring striker and the ones we've got. At our level it's a lot of money. If that money hasn't been paid to the club then its money we can't spend. There's also the issue that we could potentially have sold sponsorship rights to another company. Perhaps not for £35k, but actual hard cash being handed over is far better than the promise of more money that never actually arrives. in that respect then the non-payment of sponsorship money would be a serious issue.

Beyond that there's the granting of security on land around the club. In short if the club doesnt control the full value of that land and it needed to raise funds urgently then that cuts off a potential source of funding. Thats a major problem. I'd suggest that any deal that offers a benefit to somebody other than the club derived from a football club asset is an inherently bad one. If we needed to raise funds to address an emergency then we couldn't borrow against the land that has planning permission, or flat out sell it to a developer, because security has been granted to a third party. That should never have been allowed to happen and is potentially very problematic from a legal viewpoint and the various responsibilities set out in companies law.

There's also the 3rd problem with our current ownership - neglect. We've lost the chairman, secretary/CFO and 2 non-exec directors. Thats a massive local talent loss. Fans  are discussing whether or not the board should sack the manager but they should equally be asking exactly who within the club would make that decision? Who is there on the board of directors right now who would be expected to look after football matters? Colin Hosie is probably the one with the most football administration experience and we're fortunate that we've got Antonia working for us with her experience within football club administration. We've got a passionate trust director who remains as a conduit between trust and club board. Neil Mackay was my GP and I respect him enormously as a person - he's a thoroughly decent guy - but that doesnt qualify him to be chairman of a football club at a time of crisis. It may well suit Andy Hosie and the current club ownership to continue to be hands off: They might not be willing to intentionally and deliberately sink the club, but failing to prevent it's collapse may be an outcome that they wouldn't object to.

None of that makes our current on field problems in any way acceptable. We've got a manager who is failing to get the best from his players and a squad full of guys in poor form or simply not good enough for this level of football. We should be asking serious questions of the management and playing staff. Unfortunately there is a degree of impact on Farrell and his players from our off field problems. Whether it''s allegedly missing sponsorship money, poor  leadership at club board level or problems at ownership level, the situation off the field undoubtedly feeds into our problems on it. It also gives us a real issue as to who within the club is willing, and able, to try and affect change. Right now we're a ship with a hole below the water line, an inexperienced crew and a captain who doesnt seem to care if we sink. 

…… so does anyone know if we have a functioning supporters trust at present. No criticism of the trust from me but the lack of dialogue with fans and absence of a clear fan position statement is puzzling to me as a trust member. 

[Guest]

I think even the trust are struggling to come to terms with how far we have fallen…

From an outsider looking in…I think after he stepped aside it’s easy now for all to see how much Alan Findlay done for the trust, I don’t know the ins and outs of it but since he’s left I don’t think anyone that’s replaced him in his role has been as vocal or commutative to supporters as he was and I think that goes a long way to keep people turning up when you feel like you have a supporters trust fighting your best interests 

5 minutes ago, Robertsons said:

…… so does anyone know if we have a functioning supporters trust at present. No criticism of the trust from me but the lack of dialogue with fans and absence of a clear fan position statement is puzzling to me as a trust member. 

 

[Jordo1872]

1 hour ago, FifeSons said:

Another manager’s fund could’ve be a shout prior to January. But with the cost of living skyrocketing and impact of covid on everyone’s finances, I can’t imagine we’d raise much. Not to mention the current apathy amongst the fan base due to the performances being served up.

Also, I’m not sure there’d be any point entrusting Farrell with it. 
 

Probably not a good shout at all, actually.

There is a Manager’s Fund. It’s not a one off initiative but a rolling fund that people contribute to monthly. Albeit the uptake hasn’t been great.

[Guest]

I also think the hosie/moreroom/Brabco debate is the least of our worries. It won’t change on the pitch and that’s where change is needed now 

[FifeSons]

How long ago was it that Farrell was acknowledging our bad run on the OS? Could be wrong, but feels like that was a while ago.

15th Nov.

https://www.dumbartonfootballclub.com/news/?mode=view&id=5148

2 months and things get worse every week. Something has to give.

Edited January 8, 2022 by FifeSons

[Robertsons]

12 minutes ago, DobbiesAgent said:

I think even the trust are struggling to come to terms with how far we have fallen…

From an outsider looking in…I think after he stepped aside it’s easy now for all to see how much Alan Findlay done for the trust, I don’t know the ins and outs of it but since he’s left I don’t think anyone that’s replaced him in his role has been as vocal or commutative to supporters as he was and I think that goes a long way to keep people turning up when you feel like you have a supporters trust fighting your best interests 

 

Absolutely….Alan had a key role and I  acknowledge  his role in bringing supporters together for the benefit of the club. I guess my question is how do fans stay involved and is the trust currently active.

[pleslie99]

1 hour ago, DobbiesAgent said:

What I simply can’t get my head around is how far we have fell. 
 

we play like we are 11 men put together for a Sunday league game depending on who’s the least rough from the night before. We have no style of play at all. 
what sticks out for me is the Montrose game and Peterhead games at home. Both clubs with a style of play. Young guys out to prove themselves, well drilled, well set up and never panicked. Night and day! 
 

How has our football club become such a hard sell? 
where are the resurgent young sons that tried there best to bring some atmosphere? 
 

Gone are the days before we went up to the championship where our we club had their “raise the rock days” Flags all across the railing at the home end? A Community club with a decent atmosphere and welcoming of its community and its younger supporters! 
 

It’s amazing where we ended up really but what’s more amazing is how far we have let ourselves fall! People talk of Celtic falling asleep at the wheel in their attempt for 10 in a row? What about us and not making the most of our jump up to the championship? 
 

Owners obsessed with a stadium move etc and directors too hung up on money coming in to realise that, that was the time to offer free season tickets to under 12s? Encourage more people down to the games against the bigger clubs with their families? I mean Arbroath are a prime example of how it could’ve been…1100 season tickets sold. Amazing really. 

Flooding money in to a team to get us back up with the same man still at the helm who hopelessly took us down? Instead of rebuilding what we failed to maintain? 
 

There’s a massive lack of professionalism in Dumbarton FC. From top to bottom. Off the field we don’t show enough initiative to try and make our club an easy sell for investors players anyone really. 
On the pitch? Theirs junior teams that are better run than us. A prime example of that is Clydebank. They have a higher degree of professionalism. They have better investments that have benefited the club. An Astro pitch too, I mean no one likes them pitches but they are better for the club. 
 

Watch this space though. If things continue to go the way they have been going the last 4/5 years. We won’t survive and Clydebank will have taken our place. 

I so agree with this and your 2nd paragraph hits the nail on the head with regards to the playing side for me. Most of us were happy with Farrell in the summer. Most were happy with the signings and were excited with them, it had the basis of a decent squad. Maybe we were just caught up on the nostalgia of seeing some old faces back, reminiscing about the good old times when Buchanan, Boyle, Geggan etc put in top drawer performances and moved on to bigger and better things. 

Now we look like a team of old timers, happy to pick up a last wage before moving on to whatever they do after football. Half of them look unfit, Paton, Boyle, Buchanan, Orsi all look like like they are towing caravans behind them. There is no structure, no shape and more worrying no leadership on the pitch. Not one player seems capable or willing to grab the team and pull them through. Young Callum Wilson plays with more desire than the rest of them put together! 

We should be building a core of a team around young hungry players who want to showcase themselves for a step up. Instead we are like a retirement home or half way house for those who didn't quite make it.

There are many teams in league 1, league 2 and below in LL, EOS, and WOS who have ambitions to progress, clubs like us should be worried, Brechin won't be the last to drop out and have no sign of returning anytime soon. Clydebank, right on our doorstep have done things the right way, they don't have a billionaire owner and the community is getting right behind them. We on the other hand are driving the community away! 

[Karpaty Lviv]

What’s the script with Syvertsen?