Sons' sorrow

[squeezebox-son]

I wonder if they could split it (if it is even allowed) to have a home & away sponsor. I have no idea how how much we look for, for this kind of thing, but perhaps offering one shirt for half the price would be of more interest. As with most things, surely something is better than nothing. I reckon the home top looks classy and the away one clearly lacks a sponsor in their current, blank, form.

I think it would be amazing if there was enough interest from fans etc to raffle it off or that but I just can't see if working. I'd definitely be willing to buy a ticket or two for my own (small) business but I'm not sure we would be able to raise anywhere near enough money doing things this way to cover the expected amount.

Edited July 17, 2023 by squeezebox-son

[BallochSonsFan]

1 hour ago, squeezebox-son said:

I wonder if they could split it (if it is even allowed) to have a home & away sponsor. I have no idea how how much we look for, for this kind of thing, but perhaps offering one shirt for half the price would be of more interest. As with most things, surely something is better than nothing. I reckon the home top looks classy and the away one clearly lacks a sponsor in their current, blank, form.

I think it would be amazing if there was enough interest from fans etc to raffle it off or that but I just can't see if working. I'd definitely be willing to buy a ticket or two for my own (small) business but I'm not sure we would be able to raise anywhere near enough money doing things this way to cover the expected amount.

The idea of a sponsorship raffle isnt so much aimed at fans and is more aimed at local businesses. Fans will sponsor player jerseys. Businesses may baulk at paying a high 4, or low 5 figure fee for jersey sponsorship. The idea behind raffling the jersey sponsorship is that rather than convincing 1 business to part with £20k (for example), you convince 20 businesses to part with £1000. For that they get an advertising board on the perimeter fence and an ad in the matchday programme and 1 lucky sponsor is drawn to be the shirt sponsor. 20 local businesses might just about be willing to put a grand each in for a standard sponsorship package and you've got the added selling point that one of those 20 will have spent £1000 to get their name on our jersey.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

On 13/07/2023 at 09:20, O'Kelly Isley III said:

Absolutely George, and every Sons fans should be aware of Planning Application DC22/238/FUL (accessible on the WDC website) which has been submitted by Cognitive Capital to extend the original application to build housing on two parcels of land to the North of the football ground.  The original application was granted with the caveat of satisfactory soil samples being submitted but I understand this was never done.

In addition, the original application was for a block of 32 flats and 5 houses but the application for extension has now increased this to 40 and 9 respectively.

These proposed developments have never been subject to any sort of consultation with the club's supporters.  If they had been people would have been aware of their potential to inhibit future developments to the football ground by virtually hemming it in on the North side.  A significant area of the current car park would be lost to an access road from Castle Road, and the traffic situation on match days would be hugely affected.  The fact that such a potentially problematic application is being made by the owners of DFC tells us everything we need to know about their stewardship of the club.

The application will go before the full Planning Committee at a date unknown as of now, and objections have now been lodged by the Sons Supporters Trust and Dumbarton Community Stadium Ltd

Re the above Planning Application, I attach the layout of the development proposed by Cognitive Capital.  Please view it and remind yourself that it is being submitted by the owners of the football club, with seemingly no documented demur on the part of the DFC Board.

There is a meeting of the WDC Planning Committee scheduled for August 2nd at Clydebank Town Hall but as of now we don't know if Planning Application DC22/238/FUL will be on the discussion agenda. 

[Skyline Drifter]

On 14/07/2023 at 13:39, O'Kelly Isley III said:

It's not terrible to say it, it's the truth.  The decision to restore the section format to the League Cup wasn't the best, but to lump in clubs from the Premier Division to League Two just overloaded the dice against clubs like ours.

Back in the days when fitba was run by the game's authorities as opposed to broadcasters and sponsors the smaller clubs benefitted from a more democratic climate.  Sadly both the LC and SC have long been gerrymandered, and IMO thoroughly devalued.

So what would you prefer? The idea of the League Cup groups was to ensure everyone got at least 4 games, rather than the smallest teams mostly being one and out, and to increase commercial interest in the competition with live group games. Initially also to minimise travel by keeping groups regional. Those who didn't want to take it seriously didn't have to and still pocketed £20k+ which is way more than they got for being out in a round before.

I think it's achieved all its aims really. The regionalisation has gone since it quickly became apparent it led to playing the same teams every other year. Of course with a handful of geographical 'outlier' teams there was always a degree of travel even with regionalisation.

Appreciate that some people would naturally prefer cups to be a straight knock out of course and that's fair enough but I don't think the crowds were particularly any better under that format and the number of games certainly weren't. Under the old format clubs like Dumbarton and QoS had one or two games usually and very occasionally a third. There are far more Premier League clubs eliminated at group stages than tended to go in knockouts by the time they came in.

[Skyline Drifter]

12 hours ago, sirscottyoung said:

Not that I particularly want to help in any way  

But do a raffle for it? Get fans to drum up business to local companies, we used to do it and make a whack on it. Fortunately now we have sponsors looking for long term deals so aren't having to do it. 

Also I'll start bidding off if not doing that and offer £50 for the front of shirt sponsorship and if I win I'll gift it to the "East Fife Community Club"

 

7 hours ago, squeezebox-son said:

I wonder if they could split it (if it is even allowed) to have a home & away sponsor. I have no idea how how much we look for, for this kind of thing, but perhaps offering one shirt for half the price would be of more interest. As with most things, surely something is better than nothing. I reckon the home top looks classy and the away one clearly lacks a sponsor in their current, blank, form.

I think it would be amazing if there was enough interest from fans etc to raffle it off or that but I just can't see if working. I'd definitely be willing to buy a ticket or two for my own (small) business but I'm not sure we would be able to raise anywhere near enough money doing things this way to cover the expected amount.

 

6 hours ago, BallochSonsFan said:

The idea of a sponsorship raffle isnt so much aimed at fans and is more aimed at local businesses. Fans will sponsor player jerseys. Businesses may baulk at paying a high 4, or low 5 figure fee for jersey sponsorship. The idea behind raffling the jersey sponsorship is that rather than convincing 1 business to part with £20k (for example), you convince 20 businesses to part with £1000. For that they get an advertising board on the perimeter fence and an ad in the matchday programme and 1 lucky sponsor is drawn to be the shirt sponsor. 20 local businesses might just about be willing to put a grand each in for a standard sponsorship package and you've got the added selling point that one of those 20 will have spent £1000 to get their name on our jersey.

It is allowed to have different home and away sponsors. Several clubs have done it. I think Montrose are doing it this season (we've got the same main sponsor but the sleeve sponsor is different on home and away shirts).

The raffle idea is far from daft. I think we were the first to do it and we've been doing it for nearly 25 years now. Annan do it for their back of the shirt sponsor for the last few years. We started at £250 per entrant in the late 90s and got around 60 entries and now charge £425 per entry and get about 160.

At the end of the day, if there's no serious prospect of getting anyone to pay several thousand for it imminently it's surely easier to get say £250 - £300 each from 50 businesses? At that level you can maybe capture small traders who wouldn't normally be able to partake. Or you do what @BallochSonsFan suggested and throw it in as a raffle bonus for some other opportunity and charge a premium for it.

[sirscottyoung]

7 hours ago, squeezebox-son said:

I wonder if they could split it (if it is even allowed) to have a home & away sponsor. I have no idea how how much we look for, for this kind of thing, but perhaps offering one shirt for half the price would be of more interest. As with most things, surely something is better than nothing. I reckon the home top looks classy and the away one clearly lacks a sponsor in their current, blank, form.

I think it would be amazing if there was enough interest from fans etc to raffle it off or that but I just can't see if working. I'd definitely be willing to buy a ticket or two for my own (small) business but I'm not sure we would be able to raise anywhere near enough money doing things this way to cover the expected amount.

At East fife we have 3. 

 

Home is BW Technologies

Away is Taxi Centre

Third is Macon Resources.

 

I'd say it probably gets your more as three companies be happy splitting each cost. Rather than getting one to lump on them all.

[squeezebox-son]

24 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

 

 

It is allowed to have different home and away sponsors. Several clubs have done it. I think Montrose are doing it this season (we've got the same main sponsor but the sleeve sponsor is different on home and away shirts).

The raffle idea is far from daft. I think we were the first to do it and we've been doing it for nearly 25 years now. Annan do it for their back of the shirt sponsor for the last few years. We started at £250 per entrant in the late 90s and got around 60 entries and now charge £425 per entry and get about 160.

At the end of the day, if there's no serious prospect of getting anyone to pay several thousand for it imminently it's surely easier to get say £250 - £300 each from 50 businesses? At that level you can maybe capture small traders who wouldn't normally be able to partake. Or you do what @BallochSonsFan suggested and throw it in as a raffle bonus for some other opportunity and charge a premium for it.

Particular on your last point, as a sole trader with my own small business, I could justify a few hundred to the club I love and have grown up supporting. Especially if it means getting some ad space in the program and the chance at some other kind of exposure. But I simply don't have the funds to justify thousands.

Thanks for clarifying re the split sponsorship. I was sure it had been done before but wasn't 100% on it. As I said before, our home strip looks classy without the sponsor but the away top looks like it has a big gap left for a sponsor...not a great look in my opinion.

Edited July 17, 2023 by squeezebox-son

[sirscottyoung]

22 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

 

 

It is allowed to have different home and away sponsors. Several clubs have done it. I think Montrose are doing it this season (we've got the same main sponsor but the sleeve sponsor is different on home and away shirts).

The raffle idea is far from daft. I think we were the first to do it and we've been doing it for nearly 25 years now. Annan do it for their back of the shirt sponsor for the last few years. We started at £250 per entrant in the late 90s and got around 60 entries and now charge £425 per entry and get about 160.

At the end of the day, if there's no serious prospect of getting anyone to pay several thousand for it imminently it's surely easier to get say £250 - £300 each from 50 businesses? At that level you can maybe capture small traders who wouldn't normally be able to partake. Or you do what @BallochSonsFan suggested and throw it in as a raffle bonus for some other opportunity and charge a premium for it.

I would love to know if your numbers are bang on and correct. 

160 entrants paying £425 each sounds an awful lot for a quiet (ish) area of Scotland. 

£68,000 a season is an unbelievable amount of money into the club for jersey sponsorships and would put annan up with the bigger teams in terms of shirt sponsorship revenue. 

[Skyline Drifter]

44 minutes ago, sirscottyoung said:

I would love to know if your numbers are bang on and correct. 

160 entrants paying £425 each sounds an awful lot for a quiet (ish) area of Scotland. 

£68,000 a season is an unbelievable amount of money into the club for jersey sponsorships and would put annan up with the bigger teams in terms of shirt sponsorship revenue. 

It was rounded. We actually sold 172 this year at £425. I never suggested Annan get those sort of numbers, they don't. They sold tickets for the back of the shirt draw at £250 and apparently sold 63 tickets according to this link https://www.annanathleticfc.com/2023-24-shirt-draw-winners/ That gets them over £15,000 though. Their front of shirt sponsors have been the same for years, an Annan based engineering company.

It's not quite as pure profit as it sounds. All entrants for ours get a corporate season ticket with it so there is a "cost" there. Probably about half of them are bought by people who are regular attendees at games so they are only in effect paying a £140 premium to get in the shirt draw since they'd buy a season ticket anyway.

Obviously it takes a lot of work and a driven salesperson to get up to those kind of numbers. Probably without even really trying you could get to 50 though. Annan aren't supporting any bigger crowds than Dumbarton are. I think theirs includes a season ticket too, it certainly used to. My employers take two in the QoS draw and one in the Annan one.

Edited July 17, 2023 by Skyline Drifter

[ScottishD81]

4 hours ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

Re the above Planning Application, I attach the layout of the development proposed by Cognitive Capital.  Please view it and remind yourself that it is being submitted by the owners of the football club, with seemingly no documented demur on the part of the DFC Board.

There is a meeting of the WDC Planning Committee scheduled for August 2nd at Clydebank Town Hall but as of now we don't know if Planning Application DC22/238/FUL will be on the discussion agenda. 

Thanks for info been abroad too long to see how shocking ownership is

 

Does anyone know broadly speaking how much to buy out cognitive?

[sirscottyoung]

8 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

It was rounded. We actually sold 172 this year at £425. I never suggested Annan get those sort of numbers, they don't. They sold tickets for the back of the shirt draw at £250 and apparently sold 63 tickets according to this link https://www.annanathleticfc.com/2023-24-shirt-draw-winners/ That gets them over £15,000 though. Their front of shirt sponsors have been the same for years, an Annan based engineering company.

It's not quite as pure profit as it sounds. All entrants for ours get a corporate season ticket with it so there is a "cost" there. Probably about half of them are bought by people who are regular attendees at games so they are only in effect paying a £140 premium to get in the shirt draw since they'd buy a season ticket anyway.

Obviously it takes a lot of work and a driven salesperson to get up to those kind of numbers. Probably without even really trying you could get to 50 though. Annan aren't supporting any bigger crowds than Dumbarton are. I think theirs includes a season ticket too, it certainly used to. My employers take two in the QoS draw and one in the Annan one.

Ah sorry I thought you meant annan. That's actually a class idea with the corporate ST included in it as makes it even more of a no brainer for these companies to buy a couple tickets and pass the ST round the staff

[Life on Marrs?]

9 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

It was rounded. We actually sold 172 this year at £425. I never suggested Annan get those sort of numbers, they don't. They sold tickets for the back of the shirt draw at £250 and apparently sold 63 tickets according to this link https://www.annanathleticfc.com/2023-24-shirt-draw-winners/ That gets them over £15,000 though. Their front of shirt sponsors have been the same for years, an Annan based engineering company.

It's not quite as pure profit as it sounds. All entrants for ours get a corporate season ticket with it so there is a "cost" there. Probably about half of them are bought by people who are regular attendees at games so they are only in effect paying a £140 premium to get in the shirt draw since they'd buy a season ticket anyway.

Obviously it takes a lot of work and a driven salesperson to get up to those kind of numbers. Probably without even really trying you could get to 50 though. Annan aren't supporting any bigger crowds than Dumbarton are. I think theirs includes a season ticket too, it certainly used to. My employers take two in the QoS draw and one in the Annan one.

Presumably these companies also get to claim the VAT back, making their outlay 20% less.

I seem to remember a few years back QOS sponsorship being won by Dumfries & Galloway Constabulary.

[George Parr]

7 hours ago, ScottishD81 said:

Thanks for info been abroad too long to see how shocking ownership is

 

Does anyone know broadly speaking how much to buy out cognitive?

I don't think there's been any public indication (from Alan Martin lol) that they are interested in selling their shareholding yet. Presumably a positive outcome on their planning application would bump the premium.

[The Moonster]

29 minutes ago, George Parr said:

I don't think there's been any public indication (from Alan Martin lol) that they are interested in selling their shareholding yet. Presumably a positive outcome on their planning application would bump the premium.

Hosie just wants money. If someone has enough of it he would sell. 

[PWL]

The shirt sponsorship thing is just systematic of the direction of travel. It's noticeable how many of our former sponsors are still active elsewhere  - at VoL Juniors in particular.  

Anyway, what about the Sons Sorrow regulars? Hundred quid each.  Half to club and half to CHAS Robin House with their name on the shirt. 

[The Moonster]

@O'Kelly Isley III do you know what number the current Trust membership is at? 

[the snudge]

57 minutes ago, PWL said:

The shirt sponsorship thing is just systematic of the direction of travel. It's noticeable how many of our former sponsors are still active elsewhere  - at VoL Juniors in particular.  

Anyway, what about the Sons Sorrow regulars? Hundred quid each.  Half to club and half to CHAS Robin House with their name on the shirt. 

Not a bad idea by the way. But it has to have the title of the thread on the shirt

[Sweet Pete]

1 hour ago, PWL said:

The shirt sponsorship thing is just systematic of the direction of travel. It's noticeable how many of our former sponsors are still active elsewhere  - at VoL Juniors in particular.  

Anyway, what about the Sons Sorrow regulars? Hundred quid each.  Half to club and half to CHAS Robin House with their name on the shirt. 

 

8 minutes ago, the snudge said:

Not a bad idea by the way. But it has to have the title of the thread on the shirt

Joking aside, I think it's not a bad idea. I also like the business raffle idea. If anyone has the ear of the club, I'd be in for either of those.

[lorenzo71]

I take it tonights game is being streamed...anyone got a link to where you pay.

Cannot navigate that shithole of a website.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

1 hour ago, The Moonster said:

@O'Kelly Isley III do you know what number the current Trust membership is at? 

I think it's about 225 but I'll look to confirm it for you.