Sons' sorrow

[Howlin' Wilf]

I did the work to get the Golden Share adopted into the Articles of association of the Club.

Thanks to the Scottish Enterprise solicitor not doing his job properly there is some ambiguity in the wording of the final document over what the holding of the C shares actually mean. However if it were ever to come to law there is a paper trail which clearly shows what was being agreed between the parties. Would it stand up in court? I tend to think it would in a straight case of the owners trying to sell the stadium for housebuilding with no alternative site for the club. I couldn't see the council agreeing planning in that case either.

The fear would be in the worst case scenario that the club were either moved out of down or simply placed in liquidation. The Castle Road site is only of any use in its current form as a senior football club stadium. In either of these cases the planning department would probably give in if there were no longer a club to protect.

The other weakness of the golden share is that the holders of the C shares have no control of money being borrowed against the heritable asset (i.e. the stadium). It wouldn't stand up in the case of a lender calling a debt in.

I really don't think it will come to that though.

ETA, when I was first asked to join the Community Stadium Company, holders of the C shares and having read the paperwork, I pointed out to John McFall that whilst the stadium was protected the club wasn't. This point seemed to have been missed by everyone until then.

Edited November 27, 2014 by Howlin' Wilf

[Howlin' Wilf]

What I'm not quite getting is that we're told we need to move because Brabco are due a return on their profit, fair enough. We were then told that if it can't be afforded the club doesn't move (and that would be the boards final decision). Where does that leave Brabco? Sitting with a club which has been the stumbling block to their profit. If I'm them, do I sit for another 5-10 years and wait for another chance or do I sell the ground I currently have, hopefully make some profit, walk away and tell the club "sorry, that's business"? The Golden share issue seems sketchy at best to me.

There was an exit strategy outlined in the case of the club not moving - that being the building of a few houses on the current land without a move.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

There was an exit strategy outlined in the case of the club not moving - that being the building of a few houses on the current land without a move.

Is this even viable? How could houses be built whilst the stadium still stands but expansion can't happen? Where would they build them?

It seems like a bit of a crazy/impossible idea to me.

[Howlin' Wilf]

Another thing I've just remembered, the chairman seemed to contradict himself when saying that Alloa and Cowden pay better wages / bonuses than us, but then saying that we have offered players more than full time wages but they've preferred to stay full time for less. Additionally, Cowden offered Scott Linton and Colin Nish contracts when we signed them, so if Cowden's wages / bonuses are better, how come those two play for us?

Actually I think the point he was trying to make was that Alloa and Cowden by taking in more money than us during this season had the wherewithal to pay higher wages. He was pointing out that the club was trying to compete by offering as good terms as possible but that in the medium to long term DFC needed to make more at the gate, save money by having its own training facilities and also maximise income from other sources to continue to be able to attract players.

The mention of going full-time seems to have been missed............

[The Moonster]

There was an exit strategy outlined in the case of the club not moving - that being the building of a few houses on the current land without a move.

Yes but I don't think that's even remotely realistic. We're noisy neighbours, we're told. Who's going to buy a house basically within the grounds of the stadium? It also takes away more parking space. Are a few houses going to make Brabco profit? I doubt it, that's why they're squeezing in 180 houses onto the existing site.

[Howlin' Wilf]

Is this even viable? How could houses be built whilst the stadium still stands but expansion can't happen? Where would they build them?

It seems like a bit of a crazy/impossible idea to me.

Seems a bit odd but illustrates the point that housing development is likely to gain approval and other development isn't.

[Sweet Pete]

Actually I think the point he was trying to make was that Alloa and Cowden by taking in more money than us during this season had the wherewithal to pay higher wages. He was pointing out that the club was trying to compete by offering as good terms as possible but that in the medium to long term DFC needed to make more at the gate, save money by having its own training facilities and also maximise income from other sources to continue to be able to attract players.

The mention of going full-time seems to have been missed............

I addressed my concerns about the full time idea in another of my posts on the previous page.

[Sweet Pete]

Yes but I don't think that's even remotely realistic. We're noisy neighbours, we're told. Who's going to buy a house basically within the grounds of the stadium? It also takes away more parking space. Are a few houses going to make Brabco profit? I doubt it, that's why they're squeezing in 180 houses onto the existing site.

This "we're noisey neighbours" line doesn't wash with me. The club has been at that site for 13 years and those new houses have only been there for about 5ish. The fact is that if the tenants had concerns about the noise or traffic then they shouldn't have bought a house on the road next to a football stadium. To turn around years after our ground has been built and say "the new houses think we're too loud so we'll need to move" just doesn't work. The vast majority of football stadiums are built amongst houses.

[The Moonster]

This "we're noisey neighbours" line doesn't wash with me. The club has been at that site for 13 years and those new houses have only been there for about 5ish. The fact is that if the tenants had concerns about the noise or traffic then they shouldn't have bought a house on the road next to a football stadium. To turn around years after our ground has been built and say "the new houses think we're too loud so we'll need to move" just doesn't work. The vast majority of football stadiums are built amongst houses.

I'm in full agreement, I'm merely demonstrating that a number of things said last night can be used against their argument for moving in the first place.

I'm of the opinion that a number of the reasons thrown up for moving are weak in isolation but the DFC board think that they hold water as a collective bunch.

Everyone should put their thoughts on the Trust site too, apparently the club don't recognise this forum so we need to be sure we're heard.

[the auld son]

Dundee?

Dundee?

Ah Lionel my city of birth )

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

I also noticed last night that one of the 'negative' feedback comments in relation to the stadium was that it doesn't look modern, too old fashioned. That's a positive for me.

The plans and the stadium itself look excellent, I particularly like the terracing aspect. I think the proposed interior looks like a good layout as well with decent facilities.

If only it was that easy.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

Seems a bit odd but illustrates the point that housing development is likely to gain approval and other development isn't.

Planning consent for housing development on the present site is the least of that aspect for me Wilf, it's what numbers come out of it. The projection shown last night was for 180 dwellings and the Planning Consultant was honest enough to admit that such a figure would likely need reduce due to WDC (rightly) wishing a cordon around the Rock. So, to use the Chairman's arithmetic you may only get 150/160 bangs for your bucks as opposed to 180, which I would imagine would depress the purchase price of the land. As I said last night that matters a good deal, espcially with Brabco having no advertised funding to supplement the land sale.

I also queried the need/market for such housing given the considerable amount of new builds which have sprung up in the town over the last decade. I received a bullish response but I remain sceptical, especially that given by the time foundations would be being laid the interest rate will almost certainly have risen from the present very low level. Are there 160 families or individuals looking to move down there ? No-one knows, but Turnberry took a long time to fill all the current properties and significantly (to me anyway) they have effectively mothballed the old Blackburn site until whenever. Just how attractive to any developer/builder that 10-acre site will be in hard cash will go some way to determining if Phase One commences at the Dalmoakdome.

Edited November 27, 2014 by O'Kelly Isley III

[The Moonster]

To try and take my mind off some of the worries, I started thinking up names for the new place. Best I could think of was The Pumping Station (named after our neighbours in Dalmoak).

Anyone got anything better?

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

The Rab Bruce Death Palace

[Sweet Pete]

The Asset Strip Arena.

[Muzza81]

I saw someone state that they thought your chairman implied we take in more money than you?! No chance at all. We pay about £1500 every week just to use Central Park.

[son of a bankie]

This could be the catalyst for the next 100 years of Dumbarton fc. I understand the concerns raised by some folk at the meeting last night. Please have some trust in the board that has taken us from division 2 to being the best part timers in Scotland.

[The Moonster]

This could be the catalyst for the next 100 years of Dumbarton fc. I understand the concerns raised by some folk at the meeting last night. Please have some trust in the board that has taken us from division 2 to being the best part timers in Scotland.

If I hear that line one more time I'm going to greet.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

If I hear that line one more time I'm going to greet.

But we're the best part timers in Scotland, don't greet.

[son of a bankie]

Look at last season's table. In the championship for three years and fighting chance of four.

I tried to help a man, a grandad with his grandson who had a heart attack leaving a game last year, he sadly died later. His last few hours spent watching Dumbarton playing in the championship with his grandson.

Would we be in the championship without this board of directors and Brabco? I think not.

So don't greet, enjoy today it only lasts 24 hours.