George Parr Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 It's all pie in the sky from Dubai. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallochSonsFan Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 (edited) There will be another open consultation day over the new plans. Its important that as many fans as possible get along and ask questions. Same goes for the Trust AGM when it's announced. Get along, ask questions and make your views known. Then there's match day - fans can always find members of the trust board available to discuss any aspect of the club. Get that debate going by talking with the trust on match days. Its an important issue for Dumbarton FC - hopefully as many fans as possible will get the chance to have their say and to for that say to be heard. Edited October 21, 2016 by BallochSonsFan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
optimistic Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Very few seem to be for this new stadium, many of us find it unnecessary, we have a perfect little stadium, in the most perfect location, and if anything is needed, then maybe an extra stand at the Clyde end. Could we get the numbers to create a demonstration down at the club to show our disgust for this project? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 I'm not sure a full blown demonstration is required just yet. Now all we need is sensible and investigative debate to bottom out exactly how it will be funded and delivered. If they can prove it's viable and not delivered in phases as mentioned before I'd be inclined to go for it. I highly doubt it is viable though, and it's through involvement and questioning that we'll hopefully get answers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 (edited) My issues with the stadium plans don’t concern the size or design of it really. It looks lovely, smashing, and I’m sure if it was built it’d be cracking. My issue is the chronic lack of transparency and the potential danger it puts our little club in. Firstly, we need to know who is behind that. Not faceless company names. We need the names and details of Brabco. We need to know (officially) why they want to move us, we need to know what relevant experience of doing similar things they have, we need to know that they know they are answerable to the fans and we need to know how financially stable they are. I strongly doubt they have the best interests of the club at heart, so let’s get them to admit that. They want to make money out of us - fine - but let's make sure that we don’t get utterly screwed over by them. They need to convince us that we can trust them - and I’m not sure they will ever manager that to be brutally honest. We then need to be given absolute confirmation over the security of the deal for the club. A hotel, 5s pitches, 11s pitches, retail park and now housing development. It’s not exactly filling me with confidence that they have any real idea of how to fund a move, nor have any real confidence in actually making it happen. We then need a promise (or even contract if it’s possible) that we won’t move out of our current home until the new Superdome is complete. By that I mean it must have at least a capacity of 2500, and it must be completely fit for purpose. None of this 1000 seats, then the rest delivered in phases. They will never be built. It needs to be complete before we even consider moving away. After that they need to be told that there’s very little reason for us to leave our current home (floodlight fibs aside). It’s perfectly located near the town centre, train station, pubs and main road. It has plenty of car parking spaces. It is the perfect size for us. It has pretty decent, modern, facilities and it’s located in a stunning spot. How would the move benefit us? Then would be the issue of the location of the new stadium. It’s on a floodplain. Now, when I asked the guy last time he said “it should be alright”. Not good enough I’m afraid. It seems like a massive risk. On top of this it’s pretty much out on a limb - away from the town, pubs, stations, etc. It is a sight that would require extensive development and (iirc) we would need a cut off from the main road to access it. That won’t be cheap. Who is funding all that? None of this drivel about houses, leisure centres and 4g pitches is acceptable. At the end of the day if we get a cracking new stadium (with terracing) in a completely safe, well developed spot without putting the club in even the slightest amount of financial danger then it’s a decent deal. If, however, as I suspect DFC are an afterthought in a property developer's mind then it’s a no-go from me, and my mind will never change on that. The fortunate thing is we have plenty of fans who will be active on the matter. We might not have that many ‘diehards’ but the ones we do have are intelligent and know when the club could potentially be screwed over. I have every faith in Sons fans not to be blinded by the potential of a new stadium that could seriously put the club in a sticky situation. Edited October 21, 2016 by Sonsteam of 08 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallochSonsFan Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 All of which highlights the absolute need for fans to engage. Engage with the consultation day. Engage with the supporters trust. Engage with the club board. Engage with the local council through the appropriate planning process. It's only through constant engagement - asking the questions and demanding the answers - that anybody can hope to have an influence over this or to even get answers to some basic fundemental questions as to how it may work and what it may deliver. The only guarantee with this proposal is that if fans don't play an active part over the coming months (and longer) then we can have no complaints if we don't like the outcome, whatever it may be. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Paddy Flannery Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Does anyone know any details regarding the consultation day other than the Daily Record informing us it's 3 weeks away? Still zero information coming from the club despite this information being released by the press. If a 'DFC spokesman' has time to speak to the Daily Record surely they have time to inform the fans about what the hell is going on? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 30 minutes ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said: Does anyone know any details regarding the consultation day other than the Daily Record informing us it's 3 weeks away? Still zero information coming from the club despite this information being released by the press. If a 'DFC spokesman' has time to speak to the Daily Record surely they have time to inform the fans about what the hell is going on? I'd be wary of that DFC spokesman quote, why wouldn't our Chairman or Commercial Director put their name to a quote? My feeling is it's either made up or it's Brabco doing their PR bit and hiding behind the spokesman tag. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Paddy Flannery Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 I'd be wary of that DFC spokesman quote, why wouldn't our Chairman or Commercial Director put their name to a quote? My feeling is it's either made up or it's Brabco doing their PR bit and hiding behind the spokesman tag. Exactly.If anything the way the information is being released should make people even more wary than they already are. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 1 hour ago, Sonsteam of 08 said: My issues with the stadium plans don’t concern the size or design of it really. It looks lovely, smashing, and I’m sure if it was built it’d be cracking. My issue is the chronic lack of transparency and the potential danger it puts our little club in. Firstly, we need to know who is behind that. Not faceless company names. We need the names and details of Brabco. We need to know (officially) why they want to move us, we need to know what relevant experience of doing similar things they have, we need to know that they know they are answerable to the fans and we need to know how financially stable they are. I strongly doubt they have the best interests of the club at heart, so let’s get them to admit that. They want to make money out of us - fine - but let's make sure that we don’t get utterly screwed over by them. They need to convince us that we can trust them - and I’m not sure they will ever manager that to be brutally honest. We then need to be given absolute confirmation over the security of the deal for the club. A hotel, 5s pitches, 11s pitches, retail park and now housing development. It’s not exactly filling me with confidence that they have any real idea of how to fund a move, nor have any real confidence in actually making it happen. We then need a promise (or even contract if it’s possible) that we won’t move out of our current home until the new Superdome is complete. By that I mean it must have at least a capacity of 2500, and it must be completely fit for purpose. None of this 1000 seats, then the rest delivered in phases. They will never be built. It needs to be complete before we even consider moving away. After that they need to be told that there’s very little reason for us to leave our current home (floodlight fibs aside). It’s perfectly located near the town centre, train station, pubs and main road. It has plenty of car parking spaces. It is the perfect size for us. It has pretty decent, modern, facilities and it’s located in a stunning spot. How would the move benefit us? Then would be the issue of the location of the new stadium. It’s on a floodplain. Now, when I asked the guy last time he said “it should be alright”. Not good enough I’m afraid. It seems like a massive risk. On top of this it’s pretty much out on a limb - away from the town, pubs, stations, etc. It is a sight that would require extensive development and (iirc) we would need a cut off from the main road to access it. That won’t be cheap. Who is funding all that? None of this drivel about houses, leisure centres and 4g pitches is acceptable. At the end of the day if we get a cracking new stadium (with terracing) in a completely safe, well developed spot without putting the club in even the slightest amount of financial danger then it’s a decent deal. If, however, as I suspect DFC are an afterthought in a property developer's mind then it’s a no-go from me, and my mind will never change on that. The fortunate thing is we have plenty of fans who will be active on the matter. We might not have that many ‘diehards’ but the ones we do have are intelligent and know when the club could potentially be screwed over. I have every faith in Sons fans not to be blinded by the potential of a new stadium that could seriously put the club in a sticky situation. Good post and asking the right questions. I do have a slightly different view on your last line though. I actually don't have faith in Sons fans not to be blinded by it. Sure, on here the bunch of us that post seem to have the same concerns, but do we represent the majority? I'm not so sure. The last consultation we had regarding where to put Rangers was an eye opner for me in that respect. The stuff promised here I can see easily swaying a lot of folk, thats why pertinent, polite questioning at these consultations (and any other opportunity we have) is a must. We need to have it shown in the public domain that it's too much of a risk or impossible because all that is in the public domain at the moment is, to quote Frankie Boyle, "look at the shiny shiny!". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 1 hour ago, The Moonster said: Good post and asking the right questions. I do have a slightly different view on your last line though. I actually don't have faith in Sons fans not to be blinded by it. Sure, on here the bunch of us that post seem to have the same concerns, but do we represent the majority? I'm not so sure. The last consultation we had regarding where to put Rangers was an eye opner for me in that respect. The stuff promised here I can see easily swaying a lot of folk, thats why pertinent, polite questioning at these consultations (and any other opportunity we have) is a must. We need to have it shown in the public domain that it's too much of a risk or impossible because all that is in the public domain at the moment is, to quote Frankie Boyle, "look at the shiny shiny!". Perhaps there isn't the numbers, but I'd imagine the most vocal will either post on here (guys like us, BBPF, Wilf, OKI etc) or be the likes of Andy, Tommy, Simon etc. There will obviously be some that perhaps happy clap their way blissfully into the situation - but I think even the most diehard of them will listen to the concerns. I was on holiday throughout almost the whole Rangers summer (very Milngavie etc) so don't actually know what went on there. I remember reading that we supported putting them into the Championship, then changed - but where I was staying the WiFi was woeful and I had to get all the news from a quick scan of the Daily Record in a shop. I would guess however that some members of our support may have been speaking/voting based on feelings they may hold for the blue side of Glasgow. Stevie must be loving the fact this has taken the glare off him! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowhereman Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 It's all very well saying that the fans should oppose this as we don't need a new stadium but let's be realistic. The owners want their money back plus profit. They're not getting any younger and the longer this goes on the more impatient they will get. If a move doesn't seem feasible they may just sell the Rock for housing anyway 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonsanorak Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 The bad neighbour status at the Rock has always annoyed me; we were there first so the houses were bought knowing football matches would be taking place. The irony being that i cant imagine anyone wanting to live at dalmoak next to a football ground, but yet we hope to sell houses there? The other side of the leven at the lomondgate would have been floodplains too I'm sure. But with the scale of that site and size of the companies involved, i imagine lomondgate has been well structured to avoid floods. Moving the flood plain perhaps toward the golf club and the renton road. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 12 minutes ago, Nowhereman said: It's all very well saying that the fans should oppose this as we don't need a new stadium but let's be realistic. The owners want their money back plus profit. They're not getting any younger and the longer this goes on the more impatient they will get. If a move doesn't seem feasible they may just sell the Rock for housing anyway I'm mainly opposing it because I've not really got any idea what we're being built nor how it's funded. If they prove that then lets move and give them their profit - everybody's happy. Not convinced of the plan so far though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Wilf Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 5 hours ago, Sonsteam of 08 said: My issues with the stadium plans don’t concern the size or design of it really. It looks lovely, smashing, and I’m sure if it was built it’d be cracking. My issue is the chronic lack of transparency and the potential danger it puts our little club in. Firstly, we need to know who is behind that. Not faceless company names. We need the names and details of Brabco. We need to know (officially) why they want to move us, we need to know what relevant experience of doing similar things they have, we need to know that they know they are answerable to the fans and we need to know how financially stable they are. I strongly doubt they have the best interests of the club at heart, so let’s get them to admit that. They want to make money out of us - fine - but let's make sure that we don’t get utterly screwed over by them. They need to convince us that we can trust them - and I’m not sure they will ever manager that to be brutally honest. We then need to be given absolute confirmation over the security of the deal for the club. A hotel, 5s pitches, 11s pitches, retail park and now housing development. It’s not exactly filling me with confidence that they have any real idea of how to fund a move, nor have any real confidence in actually making it happen. We then need a promise (or even contract if it’s possible) that we won’t move out of our current home until the new Superdome is complete. By that I mean it must have at least a capacity of 2500, and it must be completely fit for purpose. None of this 1000 seats, then the rest delivered in phases. They will never be built. It needs to be complete before we even consider moving away. After that they need to be told that there’s very little reason for us to leave our current home (floodlight fibs aside). It’s perfectly located near the town centre, train station, pubs and main road. It has plenty of car parking spaces. It is the perfect size for us. It has pretty decent, modern, facilities and it’s located in a stunning spot. How would the move benefit us? Then would be the issue of the location of the new stadium. It’s on a floodplain. Now, when I asked the guy last time he said “it should be alright”. Not good enough I’m afraid. It seems like a massive risk. On top of this it’s pretty much out on a limb - away from the town, pubs, stations, etc. It is a sight that would require extensive development and (iirc) we would need a cut off from the main road to access it. That won’t be cheap. Who is funding all that? None of this drivel about houses, leisure centres and 4g pitches is acceptable. At the end of the day if we get a cracking new stadium (with terracing) in a completely safe, well developed spot without putting the club in even the slightest amount of financial danger then it’s a decent deal. If, however, as I suspect DFC are an afterthought in a property developer's mind then it’s a no-go from me, and my mind will never change on that. The fortunate thing is we have plenty of fans who will be active on the matter. We might not have that many ‘diehards’ but the ones we do have are intelligent and know when the club could potentially be screwed over. I have every faith in Sons fans not to be blinded by the potential of a new stadium that could seriously put the club in a sticky situation. Sonsteam of 08, it's time you admitted that you're really a 39 year old with a fresh complexion . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Sonsteam of 08, it's time you admitted that you're really a 39 year old with a fresh complexion . Dang, sussed. Don't tell anyone though, I'm still getting into games as an under 16! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, sonsanorak said: The bad neighbour status at the Rock has always annoyed me; we were there first so the houses were bought knowing football matches would be taking place. The irony being that i cant imagine anyone wanting to live at dalmoak next to a football ground, but yet we hope to sell houses there? The other side of the leven at the lomondgate would have been floodplains too I'm sure. But with the scale of that site and size of the companies involved, i imagine lomondgate has been well structured to avoid floods. Moving the flood plain perhaps toward the golf club and the renton road. Let's nail that particular canard once and for all. The 'Bad Neighbour' line was thrown into the mix on Brabco's behalf to metaphorically take a hatchet to your own floorboards in order to justify a move to a new abode. It's one of the oldest tricks in the black propaganda handbook - the Tories are employing it right now by running down the NHS in England to facilitate wholesale privatisation - but it won't wash here as to anyone's knowledge not one resident has uttered such a phrase. In recent seasons we've hosted Rangers, Hibs, Hearts, and the two Dundee clubs without incident. Sure, the current stadium needs serious refurbishment but you don't flit because you have a crack in the bedroom ceiling. No, this is all about a cabal of businessmen who thought they could turn a coin but are now discovering they have something unpleasant stuck to their shoes. And So8 is entirely correct, it's now time for serious questions to be asked. Has the land at Youngs Farm been purchased from Chivas ? If not, what is the likely price ? It is inconceivable that Chivas would release it at a price well below what Brabco would subsequently need to achieve from a housebuilder, unless Chivas were embarked on the daddy of all sponsorships. What housebuilder would see the Renton Road as being an attractive location, especially given all the new builds in this area ? And how much could be levered from the Castle Road site, taking into account the costs associated with remedial works ? Not to mention the diminution of income with a strip of land being needed to form part of the proposed new walkway from the town. They have also admitted that a new roundabout will be required on the A82 costing circa £1.5M. That will be the same A82 which is a major Scottish trunk road, administered by a national body, and which already has two roundabouts within the approaching kilometre - are they having a laugh here ? For Brabco read Brexit; an idea is out there but no-one really knows how to make it work, and there's a strong likelihood of pain for a lot of people. If I were a betting man I'd be advising every Sons fan to plan and prepare for a thwarted Brabco cutting, running and flogging the club to whoever rather than converting a Powerpoint presentation into bricks and mortar. Too many pieces of the jigsaw just don't fit. And many are missing. Edited October 21, 2016 by O'Kelly Isley III 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Wilf Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 5 hours ago, Nowhereman said: It's all very well saying that the fans should oppose this as we don't need a new stadium but let's be realistic. The owners want their money back plus profit. They're not getting any younger and the longer this goes on the more impatient they will get. If a move doesn't seem feasible they may just sell the Rock for housing anyway I don't think they would do that. They might sell the majority shareholding to someone who would though....... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Quitely Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 There's another side to all of this. We are all maybe assuming that all the local DFC Directors approve of the Brabco plan, I would like to think that if the fans are beginning to ask serious questions then they might be too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowhereman Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 There's another side to all of this. We are all maybe assuming that all the local DFC Directors approve of the Brabco plan, I would like to think that if the fans are beginning to ask serious questions then they might be too. They might but even if they were what influence would they have 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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