Independence - how would you vote?

[xbl]

Of course, if Cameron isn't the captain of No, then Salmond isn't the captain of Yes.

[Ad Lib]

In that case if, it isn't about opposite numbers, then you're in favour of Cameron?I would rather see Sturgeon versus Darling or Canavan versus Darling. Even Partick Harvie versus Darling. Salmond shouldn't sully his hands wasting time with the juniors.

No. Cameron is neither a Scottish politician nor the political apex of the No campaign. Darling is. Salmond is the Scottish politician at the political apex of the Yes campaign.

[xbl]

No. Cameron is neither a Scottish politician nor the political apex of the No campaign. Darling is. Salmond is the Scottish politician at the political apex of the Yes campaign.

Really? What is his official role in the Yes campaign?

Once again, though you take the Unionist position. Remarkable! The two are not equivalent.

[Ad Lib]

Really? What is his official role in the Yes campaign?

I didn't say he had an official role. That's not the criteria I used or that I consider relevant.

ETA: that was the whole point of my original post. I thought that was crystal clear.

[~~~]

If Cameron had no role in the Indy ref, then who was that guy that signed the Edinburgh agreement along with Salmond? It certainly wasn't Darling

[xbl]

I didn't say he had an official role. That's not the criteria I used or that I consider relevant.

Aha. Well David Cameron is Prime Minister of the CDU. He is at the very "apex" of the CDU. Most of the independence related stuff generally has someone like Sturgeon or Canavan presenting. Alex Salmond doesn't seem to take such an active role in the Yes campaign. Seems to me like you're once again holding CDUists and independence types to different standards.

[~~~]

Last time I checked Cameron governs Scotland in Westminster, not some backbencher MP for the opposition

[xbl]

Ah, I see what's happened here. Darling said that he "speaks for Scotland, not Cameron", and given that it was reported in the Unionist media, Ad Lib accepted it uncritically. I'm afraid Cameron is still the Prime Minister of the CDU, and that CDU currently includes Scotland.

[renton]

Ah, I see what's happened here. Darling said that he "speaks for Scotland, not Cameron", and given that it was reported in the Unionist media, Ad Lib accepted it uncritically. I'm afraid Cameron is still the Prime Minister of the CDU, and that CDU currently includes Scotland.

Yeah, where else would a no mark back bencher get to claim that?

[xbl]

Yeah, where else would a no mark back bencher get to claim that?

And, from the looks of it, be completely believed by (apparently) one of the foremost law (and immigration) experts in the world.

[Ad Lib]

If Cameron had no role in the Indy ref, then who was that guy that signed the Edinburgh agreement along with Salmond? It certainly wasn't Darling

He has no role in the Scottish movement for a No vote. The Edinburgh Agreement was about the transfer of legislative competence to enable legislation for the referendum to be passed at Holyrood. It was not about the campaign.

Aha. Well David Cameron is Prime Minister of the CDU. He is at the very "apex" of the CDU. Most of the independence related stuff generally has someone like Sturgeon or Canavan presenting. Alex Salmond doesn't seem to take such an active role in the Yes campaign. Seems to me like you're once again holding CDUists and independence types to different standards.

The debate is about Scotland deciding whether Scotland should become a sovereign state. Cameron is an Englishman representing an English constituency who has no vote in the referendum. It's not for him to operate political leadership of the No movement. Salmond is the leader of the party for Scottish independence. It is from his leadership that the independence movement are pushing for a Yes vote. He is their godfather. He is a Scot, elected to a Scottish constituency.

Darling is the Nofather. He is the most senior Scot in a Scottish constituency, behind whom the No movement have marshalled their troops. At a push you could argue Gordon Brown should be leading the No movement, I guess, but the idea that Salmond has somehow shirked the referendum limelight just because Sturgeon is his enforcer is clearly bollocks.

[garethbalesstupidface]

He has no role in the Scottish movement for a No vote. The Edinburgh Agreement was about the transfer of legislative competence to enable legislation for the referendum to be passed at Holyrood. It was not about the campaign.

The debate is about Scotland deciding whether Scotland should become a sovereign state. Cameron is an Englishman representing an English constituency who has no vote in the referendum. It's not for him to operate political leadership of the No movement. Salmond is the leader of the party for Scottish independence. It is from his leadership that the independence movement are pushing for a Yes vote. He is their godfather. He is a Scot, elected to a Scottish constituency.

Darling is the Nofather. He is the most senior Scot in a Scottish constituency, behind whom the No movement have marshalled their troops. At a push you could argue Gordon Brown should be leading the No movement, I guess, but the idea that Salmond has somehow shirked the referendum limelight just because Sturgeon is his enforcer is clearly bollocks.

so why doesnt he shut up about it then? cameron has no place in the debate I agree but it hasnt stopped him stickin his oar in regularly

[renton]

He has no role in the Scottish movement for a No vote. The Edinburgh Agreement was about the transfer of legislative competence to enable legislation for the referendum to be passed at Holyrood. It was not about the campaign.

The debate is about Scotland deciding whether Scotland should become a sovereign state. Cameron is an Englishman representing an English constituency who has no vote in the referendum. It's not for him to operate political leadership of the No movement. Salmond is the leader of the party for Scottish independence. It is from his leadership that the independence movement are pushing for a Yes vote. He is their godfather. He is a Scot, elected to a Scottish constituency.

Darling is the Nofather. He is the most senior Scot in a Scottish constituency, behind whom the No movement have marshalled their troops. At a push you could argue Gordon Brown should be leading the No movement, I guess, but the idea that Salmond has somehow shirked the referendum limelight just because Sturgeon is his enforcer is clearly bollocks.

He's also the Prime Minister of the UK, he has a responsibility to the people of Scotland, still. being at the apex of the UK political strucutre you'd think he'd have some relevent insight, a positive argument for the Union that he'd wish to deploy, in an open debate, with Salmond. Instead, he's happy to pass his responsibility to us to an opposition back bencher.

[Reynard]

so why doesnt he shut up about it then? cameron has no place in the debate I agree but it hasnt stopped him stickin his oar in regularly

Why?

[George Parr]

He has no role in the Scottish movement for a No vote. The Edinburgh Agreement was about the transfer of legislative competence to enable legislation for the referendum to be passed at Holyrood. It was not about the campaign.

The debate is about Scotland deciding whether Scotland should become a sovereign state. Cameron is an Englishman representing an English constituency who has no vote in the referendum. It's not for him to operate political leadership of the No movement. Salmond is the leader of the party for Scottish independence. It is from his leadership that the independence movement are pushing for a Yes vote. He is their godfather. He is a Scot, elected to a Scottish constituency.

Darling is the Nofather. He is the most senior Scot in a Scottish constituency, behind whom the No movement have marshalled their troops. At a push you could argue Gordon Brown should be leading the No movement, I guess, but the idea that Salmond has somehow shirked the referendum limelight just because Sturgeon is his enforcer is clearly bollocks.

Cameron shat it

[garethbalesstupidface]

Cameron shat it

this is also true, as salmond would destroy him in a debate

[xbl]

He has no role in the Scottish movement for a No vote. The Edinburgh Agreement was about the transfer of legislative competence to enable legislation for the referendum to be passed at Holyrood. It was not about the campaign.

The debate is about Scotland deciding whether Scotland should become a sovereign state. Cameron is an Englishman representing an English constituency who has no vote in the referendum. It's not for him to operate political leadership of the No movement. Salmond is the leader of the party for Scottish independence. It is from his leadership that the independence movement are pushing for a Yes vote. He is their godfather. He is a Scot, elected to a Scottish constituency.

Darling is the Nofather. He is the most senior Scot in a Scottish constituency, behind whom the No movement have marshalled their troops. At a push you could argue Gordon Brown should be leading the No movement, I guess, but the idea that Salmond has somehow shirked the referendum limelight just because Sturgeon is his enforcer is clearly bollocks.

No role eh? There was me thinking that one of the big slogans was "UK OK"? Who are this "UK"? Do they not have a say? And presumably, if Cameron has no role in it, he hasn't said anything, right? Absolute silence? You can perhaps clarify this.

Alex Salmond is the first minister of Scotland. He has no role in the movement for a Yes vote. He has appointed Nicola Sturgeon to look after that. Still I love your new definition "He is the most senior Scot in a Scottish constituency"? Surely that would be somebody like Danny Alexander or Scottish Secretary Michael Moore, both of whom are in government. Or Alistair Carmichael who is also in government? Or how about David Mundell, who is the only Scot representing the largest party in the CDU? How are you defining seniority?

Seems to me that you are clutching at red, white, and blue straws.

[Colkitto]

Cameron's credibility in tatters. He doesn't come out well in this by refusing the debate with Salmond.

He is head of the UK Government and has just refused to fight for his country in debate with the person who is fighting to break it up.

1-0 Salmond

[capybara]

Cameron , Darling or Lamont who cares.

[Colkitto]

Rab C insisted on leaving the debate on independence to the people who live in Scotland.

He got it.

Oi Rab C!

Leave the goal posts where they are thank you!

Now,get the Funny Eye Brows v Rab C match on!

Cameron doesn't have the Churchill spirit. He's a feartie....