DeeGas Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 I see Bill Clinton offered a polite nudge in Salmonds direction the other day. Come on Salmond,out you come from your 'bunker' and let's have some respectful, honest and informative debate on the referendum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 I've already told you that it is not. Just try to read the words on the screen. Then you're an idiot. By any reasonable definition of a country, the UK is one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Nobody apart from the usual suspects on here actually care if its a country, nation or lump of rock, folk just want reassurance that we can pay the bills. Honestly guys, it's a point scoring exercise on here now, independence/making it better within the union is low in folks priorities, it's all about 'look how clever and important I am'. Even I'm bored of the drivel on both sides... Except semantics do matter. Not to ask these essential questions of (political) identity is to circumvent the question completely. A key tenet of any self-determination debate is "what is we?" The Scottish nationalists assume that we is "Scotland". This is particularly prevalent when you get cringebots on here saying fatuous things like "what kind of craven person wouldn't want their country to be independent" or "I think independence is the natural status for nations". At the very centre of the strongest unionist arguments are attacks on these very basic premises. First, that "Scotland' is the (only) nation at the heart of this debate, or that its sense of nation is somehow more important than the British sense of nation. Second, that just because other nations are independent, that Scotland necessarily must follow that path and share that conception of sovereignty in a global perspective. Whether the UK is or isn't a country may or may not be important in the grander scheme of things, but the point is precisely that people are attaching moral, political and social significance to words like "country", "nation" and "independent". They are using these words as a proxy for something they often show themselves completely incapable of breaking down or articulating rationally or explicitly. What we need to understand is that to declare that Scotland (or Britain) is a nation or a country, isn't an argument or a solution to the problem, but a restatement of the original problem. Words matter. They convey meaning and sentiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny MacAskill Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 This video demonstrates the general (lack of) intelligence of the naw voters. Comical. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqYygqFQx-0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Except semantics do matter. Not to ask these essential questions of (political) identity is to circumvent the question completely. A key tenet of any self-determination debate is "what is we?" The Scottish nationalists assume that we is "Scotland". This is particularly prevalent when you get cringebots on here saying fatuous things like "what kind of craven person wouldn't want their country to be independent" or "I think independence is the natural status for nations". At the very centre of the strongest unionist arguments are attacks on these very basic premises. First, that "Scotland' is the (only) nation at the heart of this debate, or that its sense of nation is somehow more important than the British sense of nation. Second, that just because other nations are independent, that Scotland necessarily must follow that path and share that conception of sovereignty in a global perspective. Whether the UK is or isn't a country may or may not be important in the grander scheme of things, but the point is precisely that people are attaching moral, political and social significance to words like "country", "nation" and "independent". They are using these words as a proxy for something they often show themselves completely incapable of breaking down or articulating rationally or explicitly. What we need to understand is that to declare that Scotland (or Britain) is a nation or a country, isn't an argument or a solution to the problem, but a restatement of the original problem. Words matter. They convey meaning and sentiment. Nobody cares about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 I've been in Edinburgh the last two days spending time with my family. I'm re-entering the thread on the subject matter that people are currently posting on. Last time I asked you to tell me what you wanted me to condemn, you never responded. I just can't win with you. All we've ever wanted from you is to treat pro-Unionist news/posts with the same vigour as you treat pro-independence posts/news. Don't worry, we're used to being disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 What's your point, caller? Scotland is not oppressed or denied self-determination Well, that clearly isn't true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeGas Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 This video demonstrates the general (lack of) intelligence of the naw voters. Comical. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqYygqFQx-0 Fair play to the Unionists on this youtube clip. Trust your gut instinct. Salmond and the SNP are not to be trusted. Better Together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Apparently the First World War involved England & Germany, nobody else. This despite the fact that Scotland suffered far more casualties proportionately than any other Western country. Hmmm. http://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/beckham.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/political-news/hundreds-of-millions-to-be-cut-from-scots-block-grant.21208769?_=292fd07884af3db8f43163db4cd6b2f629212941 Now I know what the positive case for the Union is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sons superhero Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 If you value the United Kingdom,the British family vote Better Together. I mean there are things like pensions,defence,who will be Scottish after,passports,border etc etc,but unless Salmond actually comes up with creditable answers to these and other points we'll all just have to guess.Salmond owes Scotland and the rest of the UK to be honest and open up talks because as things are he is a disgrace,a horrible trouble maker. But,really,it's very much about identity and if you cherish your British identity within the United Kingdom then the only way to preserve this identity is to say no to the nationalists and vote for a Better Together future for Scotland within the United Kingdom family. Everyother country can do it except us, thanks for that vote of confidence. How did we manage to last this far, a nation of ineptitude. Thank f**k we have the rest of the worlds charity to save us from oblivion. Knob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sons superhero Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Fair play to the Unionists on this youtube clip. Trust your gut instinct. Salmond and the SNP are not to be trusted. Better Together. We can't fight our own wars?????? We get all our industries from England???????? We don't have the mental capacity???????? REALLY, wtf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 We can't fight our own wars?????? We get all our industries from England???????? We don't have the mental capacity???????? REALLY, wtf. No worse than "I'd vote yes just to stick it up Cameron, to be honest." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Nobody cares about this. Uh yes they do. It is precisely the lack of a narrative for Brits that's holding the Yes campaign back. Feel free to ignore this advice and lose, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Uh yes they do. It is precisely the lack of a narrative for Brits that's holding the Yes campaign back. Feel free to ignore this advice and lose, though. Do you have any specific evidence to show that the above is the case: or have you done the classic Savage Henry fail of stating something you think is personally important, and turning it into the referendum's decisive swing issue without any factual basis? Meanwhile, for those keeping the scores at home, that would be 'pro-Yes' 'Ad Lib' 'keeping the Yes campaign honest' again. Nobody's convinced, never mind caring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Have any of the buckled nat wankers managed to come to terms with the fact that they are going to be absolutely routed next September yet? Or are they all still in total fantasy mode? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Do you have any specific evidence to show that the above is the case: or have you done the classic Savage Henry fail of stating something you think is personally important, and turning it into the referendum's decisive swing issue without any factual basis? Meanwhile, for those keeping the scores at home, that would be 'pro-Yes' 'Ad Lib' 'keeping the Yes campaign honest' again. Nobody's convinced, never mind caring. How catastrophically huge do you think the nationalists loss is going to be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 I'm not sure you're in a position to be discussing catastrophic routs, given your recent shed based shoeing at the hands of lichtgilphead on this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Do you have any specific evidence to show that the above is the case: or have you done the classic Savage Henry fail of stating something you think is personally important, and turning it into the referendum's decisive swing issue without any factual basis? Meanwhile, for those keeping the scores at home, that would be 'pro-Yes' 'Ad Lib' 'keeping the Yes campaign honest' again. Nobody's convinced, never mind caring. Liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Liar. Fail. Please refer to your 'disgruntled Peterhead fishermen make an EU referendum pledge a decisive swing issue': which you later slithered away from with your tail between your legs. Liar for branding a poster of integrity such as myself as a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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