Independence - how would you vote?

[Tubbs]

You've clearly long since made your mind up. For example, as I pointed out, the SNP have long since outlined what they visualise a Scottish armed forces as looking like. I suggest that what you do is actually try reading things.

Yes like your yes campaign chief exec you can only handle a contra view by writing it off as not knowledgeable enough. I have long made my mind up, but crucially it's based on the poor case for a yes vote rather than a love of all things British as an ideology I think there might be a fair number like me and the lack of real detail and soon as possible stuff just doesn't get anywhere near the trust level which would be required to convince that independence is primarily an ideology supported by a hope that things will work out

[xbl]

Yes like your yes campaign chief exec you can only handle a contra view by writing it off as not knowledgeable enough. I have long made my mind up, but crucially it's based on the poor case for a yes vote rather than a love of all things British as an ideology I think there might be a fair number like me and the lack of real detail and soon as possible stuff just doesn't get anywhere near the trust level which would be required to convince that independence is primarily an ideology supported by a hope that things will work out

Right, well as I've pointed out multiple times, the SNP released their vision of the armed forces months ago. You didn't know about it. Must have been a hell of a No campaign to convince you. Was it the threat of roaming charges? The airport bombing? The storing decommissioned nuclear subs in Scotland forever?

[sons superhero]

I have come to the conclusion that as soon as possible means we don't have a clue and we will use this as a bargaining chip and whatever comes out the other end can be described as 'as soon as possible' . what the snp could say however is if they will say get them out of here now either by decommissioning or by housing them with another ally such as the USA ; or if they will allow the UK time to build another site ?

However, this kind of detail only adds to the no side of the argument and hence why the snp from a political viewpoint avoid such information across a whole spectrum of issues. Lots of people are happy with this as it allows the details of the current UKs problems to be utilised and used by the yes campaign whilst they avoid any use of the potential problems of a yes vote.

That is surely a decision for the rUK Government and not a Scots one. Yes's stating not here thanks, the rest is up to Whitehall after negotiations.

[renton]

Yes like your yes campaign chief exec you can only handle a contra view by writing it off as not knowledgeable enough. I have long made my mind up, but crucially it's based on the poor case for a yes vote rather than a love of all things British as an ideology I think there might be a fair number like me and the lack of real detail and soon as possible stuff just doesn't get anywhere near the trust level which would be required to convince that independence is primarily an ideology supported by a hope that things will work out

Poor case for a Yes vote?

More representative democracy and decisions about Scotland made in Scotland.

More control on economic policies to suit the Scottish economy rather than the City of London.

That's what you get for a Yes vote, at it's very base. Those two lines then inform a whole swathe of policies from defence and foreign policy, energy policy, housing, education, health..... all things that can then be decided by a Scottish government of whatever colour.

How is that a poor case?

Will we be in the EU: Yes, after a matter of some horsetrading.

Will we be in NATO: Again, yes.

Will we be in the UN: Yes.

Will Scotland be an economic basket case: Even Better Together concedes it won't be.

There is only a degree to which the current Scottish government and Yes Scotland can be specific about policy. Certinaly in the former case, becuase they might not be in power in a theoretical 2016 independent election. If you want to define your thoughts on the matter through fair and impartial scrutiny then you can't try and nail them on what base tax levels will be in 2037.

I would invite you to look at the current economic and political setup in the UK and ask yourself if that, in the long run, will better serve Scotland. And if you can, I'd love to hear it, because so far no one has managed to do so.

[Tubbs]

Right, well as I've pointed out multiple times, the SNP released their vision of the armed forces months ago. You didn't know about it. Must have been a hell of a No campaign to convince you. Was it the threat of roaming charges? The airport bombing? The storing decommissioned nuclear subs in Scotland forever?

No it was the back of a fag packet detail linked to the recent shift to be in NATO, a change only brought about when the contra position became as ridiculous as it was a long standing snp policy Some may well see it as a practical solution others will see it as a do and say anything to get a yes vote

[~~~]

If Scotland leaves the Union,you'll get less from your foreign £ and that's if you're lucky.

Considering Scottish notes are already treated like foreign currency in England, I wouldn't worry about it

[renton]

No it was the back of a fag packet detail linked to the recent shift to be in NATO, a change only brought about when the contra position became as ridiculous as it was a long standing snp policy Some may well see it as a practical solution others will see it as a do and say anything to get a yes vote

So, about the same as the last three British government Strategic Defence Reviews then?

[pandarilla]

Poor case for a Yes vote?

More representative democracy and decisions about Scotland made in Scotland.

More control on economic policies to suit the Scottish economy rather than the City of London.

That's what you get for a Yes vote, at it's very base. Those two lines then inform a whole swathe of policies from defence and foreign policy, energy policy, housing, education, health..... all things that can then be decided by a Scottish government of whatever colour.

How is that a poor case?

Will we be in the EU: Yes, after a matter of some horsetrading.

Will we be in NATO: Again, yes.

Will we be in the UN: Yes.

Will Scotland be an economic basket case: Even Better Together concedes it won't be.

There is only a degree to which the current Scottish government and Yes Scotland can be specific about policy. Certinaly in the former case, becuase they might not be in power in a theoretical 2016 independent election. If you want to define your thoughts on the matter through fair and impartial scrutiny then you can't try and nail them on what base tax levels will be in 2037.

I would invite you to look at the current economic and political setup in the UK and ask yourself if that, in the long run, will better serve Scotland. And if you can, I'd love to hear it, because so far no one has managed to do so.

Sums up the whole shooting match IMO - well played sir (apologies I've been greenie trigger happy this afternoon)

[Baxter Parp]

No it was the back of a fag packet detail linked to the recent shift to be in NATO, a change only brought about when the contra position became as ridiculous as it was a long standing snp policy Some may well see it as a practical solution others will see it as a do and say anything to get a yes vote

So you're against being in NATO then?

[Kejan]

We've not had a poll for while.

Wonder why that is? Mmmm.

[H_B]

Panelbase seem to do their almost every 2 months on the dot, so we should be due one of theirs next week.

IPSOS/MORI is more quarterly so due one of them in August I think.

[Kejan]

Panelbase seem to do their almost every 2 months on the dot, so we should be due one of theirs next week.

IPSOS/MORI is more quarterly so due one of them in August I think.

Cheers for that.

[Baxter Parp]

Seems fair.

[H_B]

I'm not sure why there hasn't been a TNS-BMRB one. They did one in Feb and May, but not in June.

I'm looking forward to the September 2013 polls though, as according to this wishing on a star mentalist, Yes will overtake No!

If you have a bright 5 year old I think they could point out the problem with the "trends" they are trying to use.

http://www.arcofprosperity.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/independenceopinionpollstrendlines.png

[Ad Lib]

Don't get me wrong, I'm against the renewal of Trident. But the point is it wouldn't be "out of commission" it would be without a base in which it could be safely stored and maintained. That's clearly a huge security issue not just for the UK but for all the countries in the vicinity of the British Isles.

Trident isn't maintained in Scotland, the Subs are maintained at Faslane but not exclusively.

Hence I said stored and contained and as an alternative to Faslane (i.e. in respect of capacity) rather than "storing an undefined number of subs and an undefined number of warheads at any arbitrary point in time".

[xbl]

I'm not sure why there hasn't been a TNS-BMRB one. They did one in Feb and May, but not in June.

Yes, there hasn't been a poll for quite some time, has there? Interesting that...

[Ad Lib]

Yes, there hasn't been a poll for quite some time, has there? Interesting that...

Perhaps given, you know, they did one in February and one in May, they have a quarterly cycle and will have one in August. Radical proposition, I know.

But no, it's clearly a conspiracy.

[sons superhero]

No I am highlighting that as soon as possible is meaningless , whilst giving the impression of clarity and that the snp can clearly indicate its starting position right now. Also interesting that many responders talk about negotiations whilst the bbc is today reporting sturgeon as saying trident won't be a bargaining chip .

That would be the removal of trident that won't be bargained. How this is done in reality has to be.

[xbl]

Perhaps given, you know, they did one in February and one in May, they have a quarterly cycle and will have one in August. Radical proposition, I know.

But no, it's clearly a conspiracy.

ANY Scottish poll.

[Ad Lib]

ANY Scottish poll.

Are any of the polling companies overdue a poll given their typical cycles?