SuperCaleyGoBallistic Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Good to see. The way the government have clamped down on alcohol in recent years means cannabis laws are unlikely to be relaxed. There really is no good argument against allowing people to take whatever drug they want IMO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinkinFighter Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Uruguayan tourism to rise significantly? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I've taken drugs every day for eyears and snothings ever happened to me, perfectly fine so I am 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambie's Pigeon Feed Posted August 5, 2013 Author Share Posted August 5, 2013 So despite a bunch of people dying from dodgy pills a month ago, 2 people being hospitalized from sketchy legal highs at the weekend, Uruguay legalizing weed and huge government spending cuts we're still not afforded a grown up debate on drug legislation. Caroline Lucas' attempts to get a debate in parliament seems to have been silenced or ignored. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveybhoy Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Should be legal as iv just moved to kirkcaldy an ahm at present unable to find any anywher, if it was legal it would save me a hell of a lot of trouble!!! Tempted te ask ma pal te stick some in the post. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend Maynard Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 A couple of other points to add to the debate ( not read full thread so if already covered, tough) Prof David Nutt, former drugs Czar talks a lot about the relative risks of taking drugs such as ecstasy. Essentially it is much safer than many other day to day activities. Not seen his latest work but fewer deaths due to ecstasy than due to alcohol. So that's pretty clear - legalise on safety grounds. However, there is a growing concern in psychiatry about drug induced psychosis. Proff robin Murray at the Institute of psychiatry has done a great deal of research on this, and concludes there is a greater risk of developing serious mental illnesses such as schizophrenia if you are a regular smoker of cannabis. ( all weed isn't equal. High concentrations of THC to CBD can increase the risk). As it is mainly young-ish people who will smoke large amounts, and as the common onset of psychotic symptoms can occur in the 18-24 age group, it seem pretty clear- don't leagalise on health grounds. so if anything should be legalised , it should be ecstasy , but not sure what the effect on mental health would be in the long term. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 A couple of other points to add to the debate ( not read full thread so if already covered, tough) Prof David Nutt, former drugs Czar talks a lot about the relative risks of taking drugs such as ecstasy. Essentially it is much safer than many other day to day activities. Not seen his latest work but fewer deaths due to ecstasy than due to alcohol. So that's pretty clear - legalise on safety grounds. However, there is a growing concern in psychiatry about drug induced psychosis. Proff robin Murray at the Institute of psychiatry has done a great deal of research on this, and concludes there is a greater risk of developing serious mental illnesses such as schizophrenia if you are a regular smoker of cannabis. ( all weed isn't equal. High concentrations of THC to CBD can increase the risk). As it is mainly young-ish people who will smoke large amounts, and as the common onset of psychotic symptoms can occur in the 18-24 age group, it seem pretty clear- don't leagalise on health grounds. so if anything should be legalised , it should be ecstasy , but not sure what the effect on mental health would be in the long term. The increased risk if schizophrenia is being disputed i think, regardless with legislation you can control the concentrations of THC to CBD, Anyway. It seems to me that prof nutt is one of the best advisors to government I've seen, and he got sacked because he gave the wrong advice. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend Maynard Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 The increased risk if schizophrenia is being disputed i think, regardless with legislation you can control the concentrations of THC to CBD, Anyway. It seems to me that prof nutt is one of the best advisors to government I've seen, and he got sacked because he gave the wrong advice. One of the points Proff Murray makes is that if everyone smoked the groovy weed that was available in the sixties with THC concentrations of 3% then there probably wouldn't be an issue. However skunk and the genetically modified weed has THC concentrations of > 13% and there does seem to be a link. Some argue that folk who have drug induced psychosis would have developed it anyway, and that the weed just speeded up the process. Others though see a clear link with smoking to much, and having increase paranoid symptoms leading to full blown schizophrenia . Given the maket led nature of what people want and the increasing strengths of weed available is it worth the risk? As you say though Proff Nutt was "off message" and rather than using it as an opportunity to have a debate about the risks involved in all drug use ( including alcohol) they sacked him before the daily mail could start a campaign. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 One of the points Proff Murray makes is that if everyone smoked the groovy weed that was available in the sixties with THC concentrations of 3% then there probably wouldn't be an issue. However skunk and the genetically modified weed has THC concentrations of > 13% and there does seem to be a link. Some argue that folk who have drug induced psychosis would have developed it anyway, and that the weed just speeded up the process. Others though see a clear link with smoking to much, and having increase paranoid symptoms leading to full blown schizophrenia . Given the maket led nature of what people want and the increasing strengths of weed available is it worth the risk? As you say though Proff Nutt was "off message" and rather than using it as an opportunity to have a debate about the risks involved in all drug use ( including alcohol) they sacked him before the daily mail could start a campaign. I believe that the schizophrenia angle had been slightly overhyped , interestingly with the usage talked about that contributes towards psychosis then alcohol has a significantly bigger chance of causing psychosis. Anyway if you legalised weed with THC concentrations of say max 5-6% ( random number, it would be interesting to see what % someone like prof Murray would say psychosis becomes a risk) is your average user going to bother too much about sourcing illegal. high % stuff( with all the risks that entails). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend Maynard Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 I believe that the schizophrenia angle had been slightly overhyped , interestingly with the usage talked about that contributes towards psychosis then alcohol has a significantly bigger chance of causing psychosis. Anyway if you legalised weed with THC concentrations of say max 5-6% ( random number, it would be interesting to see what % someone like prof Murray would say psychosis becomes a risk) is your average user going to bother too much about sourcing illegal. high % stuff( with all the risks that entails). Yeah, if it was at that concentration it would be much less risk. The alcohol one is interesting as I'm guessing that it takes a lot more chronic use to induce permanent psychotic symptoms ?( ie you need to be an alcoholic ) I know a lot of the drug induced psychosis guys we being picked up in gereral adult psychiatry. The alcoholics who had psychotic like symptoms were mainly seeing the drug and alcohol guys. So what's our conclusion? Weed/alcohol - used in moderation at low doses you'll be fine - used chronically at high doses you will potentially lose your mind HTH 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southcapital Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) Best argument yet for being in favour of the legislation of drugs If you have 15 minutes watch it all and try and pick a fault in what he is saying I'm sure there is probably a few but it's the best speach on the issue so far Edited August 16, 2013 by southcapital 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Yeah, if it was at that concentration it would be much less risk. The alcohol one is interesting as I'm guessing that it takes a lot more chronic use to induce permanent psychotic symptoms ?( ie you need to be an alcoholic ) I know a lot of the drug induced psychosis guys we being picked up in gereral adult psychiatry. The alcoholics who had psychotic like symptoms were mainly seeing the drug and alcohol guys. So what's our conclusion? Weed/alcohol - used in moderation at low doses you'll be fine - used chronically at high doses you will potentially lose your mind HTH Someone will likely know more than me but I think the alcohol stuff was close on alcoholic levels but I thought when they talk of psychosis through weed use it was mainly people that spend most their life stoned. And yes the general rule for drug use is the more you use the worst it will be for you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobBairn1876 Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 It's fucking disgusting but at the same time it doesn't seem to do any harm. No more than alcohol or nicotine do anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamamafegan Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Should obviously be legal. There are more alcohol & tobacco related deaths in the UK than weed for starters. What proof is there that weed is more harmful to the human body than alcohol & tobacco? I'm not sure there is conclusive proof. I absolutely agree that people should be left to make their own decision when given the opportunity to have some. It's probably causing the authorities more hassle with it being illegal tbh than just letting folk get on with it. It's not going to become legal anytime soon of course, our own government is trying to encourage folk to drink less and quit smoking as it is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambie's Pigeon Feed Posted August 19, 2013 Author Share Posted August 19, 2013 Should obviously be legal. There are more alcohol & tobacco related deaths in the UK than weed for starters. What proof is there that weed is more harmful to the human body than alcohol & tobacco? I'm not sure there is conclusive proof. I absolutely agree that people should be left to make their own decision when given the opportunity to have some. It's probably causing the authorities more hassle with it being illegal tbh than just letting folk get on with it. It's not going to become legal anytime soon of course, our own government is trying to encourage folk to drink less and quit smoking as it is. If people can legally source their buzz from weed or pills are they not likely to use alcohol and tobacco less? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 If people can legally source their buzz from weed or pills are they not likely to use alcohol and tobacco less? Hence the antipathy of the major brewing companies in the US to weed legalization. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Should obviously be legal. There are more alcohol & tobacco related deaths in the UK than weed for starters. No one has ever died from smoking weed. Problem being there is that some people smoking weed will smoke it with tobacco, which causes cancer, heart disease etc. but weed on its own doesn't cause any of those things. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebeneezer Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 No one has ever died from smoking weed. Problem being there is that some people smoking weed will smoke it with tobacco, which causes cancer, heart disease etc. but weed on its own doesn't cause any of those things. I don't know about that. Apparently prolonged cannabis use ruins short-term memory, damages the lungs and damages the lungs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supras Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 A couple of other points to add to the debate ( not read full thread so if already covered, tough) Prof David Nutt, former drugs Czar talks a lot about the relative risks of taking drugs such as ecstasy. Essentially it is much safer than many other day to day activities. Not seen his latest work but fewer deaths due to ecstasy than due to alcohol. So that's pretty clear - legalise on safety grounds. However, there is a growing concern in psychiatry about drug induced psychosis. Proff robin Murray at the Institute of psychiatry has done a great deal of research on this, and concludes there is a greater risk of developing serious mental illnesses such as schizophrenia if you are a regular smoker of cannabis. ( all weed isn't equal. High concentrations of THC to CBD can increase the risk). As it is mainly young-ish people who will smoke large amounts, and as the common onset of psychotic symptoms can occur in the 18-24 age group, it seem pretty clear- don't leagalise on health grounds. so if anything should be legalised , it should be ecstasy , but not sure what the effect on mental health would be in the long term. One of the points Proff Murray makes is that if everyone smoked the groovy weed that was available in the sixties with THC concentrations of 3% then there probably wouldn't be an issue. However skunk and the genetically modified weed has THC concentrations of > 13% and there does seem to be a link. Some argue that folk who have drug induced psychosis would have developed it anyway, and that the weed just speeded up the process. Others though see a clear link with smoking to much, and having increase paranoid symptoms leading to full blown schizophrenia . Given the maket led nature of what people want and the increasing strengths of weed available is it worth the risk? As you say though Proff Nutt was "off message" and rather than using it as an opportunity to have a debate about the risks involved in all drug use ( including alcohol) they sacked him before the daily mail could start a campaign. Yeah, if it was at that concentration it would be much less risk. The alcohol one is interesting as I'm guessing that it takes a lot more chronic use to induce permanent psychotic symptoms ?( ie you need to be an alcoholic ) I know a lot of the drug induced psychosis guys we being picked up in gereral adult psychiatry. The alcoholics who had psychotic like symptoms were mainly seeing the drug and alcohol guys. So what's our conclusion? Weed/alcohol - used in moderation at low doses you'll be fine - used chronically at high doses you will potentially lose your mind HTH I could spend much more time responding to this, but I feel it harks back to the idea I explored earlier in the thread that the drugs that currently cause most harm should be the ones that are legalised first. Only then can this harm be minimised. Drug policy should be about minisiming harm first and foremost, and saying lets keep it illegal because it harms people currently is a ridiculous idea. It's fucking disgusting but at the same time it doesn't seem to do any harm. No more than alcohol or nicotine do anyway. Marijuana is a much safer drug than alcohol or nicotine. Much safer. I don't know about that. Apparently prolonged cannabis use ruins short-term memory, damages the lungs and damages the lungs. Apparently? Apparently prolonged caffeine use can damage your heart. Better put away that coffee. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend Maynard Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 ^^^^^^^^ harm vs risk Different concepts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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