Liverpool City Council Ban FOBTs In Betting Shops

[DA Baracus]

Please stop typing 'neva'

[Father Dougal McGuire]

I think we're arguing semantics here, and I'm sure H_B can speak up for himself, but it's possible to be very very lucky and win consistently in roulette.

As an aside, the numbers on a roulette wheel add up to 666. Which tells you all you need to know.

Exactly this. I don't play roulette because the odds are stacked against you. Obviously the majority are going to lose because of this fact. But to suggest that nobody can be lucky and be up overall is just stupid. Fraser is stupid.

[Father Dougal McGuire]

^^^ Says the boy who can't use the quote function properly.

[Fraser Fyvie]

I think we're arguing semantics here, and I'm sure H_B can speak up for himself, but it's possible to be very very lucky and win consistently in roulette.

As an aside, the numbers on a roulette wheel add up to 666. Which tells you all you need to know.

Exactly this. I don't play roulette because the odds are stacked against you. Obviously the majority are going to lose because of this fact. But to suggest that nobody can be lucky and be up overall is just stupid. Fraser is stupid.

1000 or 2000 spins? Sure, it's possible to be up. But I'll tell you what's stupid - believing that you can be in profit over 100,000 spins with a 2.7% edge against you for every single spin.

Anyway I'm not going to waste more time arguing with degenerate gambling addicts. All the best with your rehab

[NotThePars]

In bookies or online? Tis easy to get yourself barred.

Watched that BBC documentary about Corals. Like others say, can't believe they agreed to it. And the manager, while trying to come across as a jovial sort, came across as a bit of a p***k.

Felt sorry for Stuart though. He seemed like a nice chap.

It's not easy to ban yourself. I'm working in a bookies atm and self exclusions tend to only extend to several stores. That's not really going to stop someone who lives in a city where by and large their are dozens. I'm only basing this on Glasgow where I live but the sheer ubiquity of bookies (and multiple staff members and lax enforcement) means you can easily keep on betting.

The documentary was weird and I think could have further ramifications for the industry. I wouldn't be against that tbh, although there is a lot of new regulations and rules in place such as the recent introduction of 50+ spending limits on FOBTs for unregistered customers it's still rarely enforced or easily subverted.

[killie_lad]

Fraser fyvie is a right special case isn't he?

[Hampden Diehard]

It amazes me that bookies actually make money when most of the people who admit to gambling are nearly always up.

Spot on! There are bookies everywhere, either on your high street or all over the internet like a rash, because it's them that are consistently making money, rather than the punters who are losing. I don't gamble very much at all, but all the guys I know who do have tales of winnings....and none of losing, other than the occasional "Barnet did me for two thousand quid" type comments. Other than that, you never hear from guys on them losing. Refreshing (if depressing) to read the honest stories on here of guys who lose pretty regularly.

It's a mug's game and irrespective of how much you enjoy it....it's still a mug's game.

[Tommy Nooka]

It's pretty much like any addiction though in that many addicts will delude themselves.

I've seen it happen directly with people who are overweight and going on a diet where they monitor what they eat. The problem is they lie to themselves and end up not recording everything they eat yet are still surprised at the end of the week/month that they haven't lost any weight.

Try recording the 'odd wee biscuit' and 'odd wee jelly sweety' you've been eating too.

I'm sure addicted gamblers do the same and don't count the 'wee flutters'.

[latapythelegend]

Had £2 in my pocket this morning when passing WH so stuck 10 numbers on the 20p roulette. Walked out a minute late an extra £5.20 up after one spin. Might not be much but it was such an enjoyable moment. My rule of thumb with the FOBTs is never stick in any amount you can make up using a note. (£1 notes excluded obvs)

[Loki]

I used to work in a bookies and no matter what a bookmaker says publicly they don't really care about addicted punters or helping them. The machines are highly addictive. I used to quite often hand over the gamble awareness leaflets to people and tell them they should have a read of that and ask themselves if it describes them. My manager then told me I shouldn't have as they were our best machine players.

There's a number of things they could do to change FOBT's so that punters couldn't lose so much so fast. I certainly don't think they should be banned, but measures could be brought in. It used to be £100 maximum was allowed per spin. But with you being able to get three spins a minute, a person can be quickly down a shiteload. Even then if they limited it to £50 a spin, people would just gamble through their money anyway.

They used to have a 92% pay out. All the little wins just got played through. More often than not you would have double the money in the machines to what you had paid out.

I watched the programme and I thought the manager was a typical bookies manager. The mindset of trying to fleece the punters, and thinking that any money coming into his shop was his own. Trying to get your old timer horse punters putting their Union Jacks and Dundee Shuffles onto the machines and they know they'll make so much more money.

My greatest ever experience in a bookies was this old guy that came in in the afternoon. He would always do his triple forecast on the dogs. Same numbers every race. However in this instance it was three new dogs that haven't raced before. Two of them were about the size of donkeys and just about had to be kicked into the traps. So their odds were huge for dog racing. 15/1 and maybe 20/1. Something daft like that. The race starts and the three good dogs fire into the lead, leaving his fat dogs way behind. Coming round the bend one dogs slips on the inside and takes the other two dogs with him straight into the outer ring. Leaving these three dogs to win. We didn't have enough money in the safe or float to cover the winnings, so I had to go to the bank. He thought he was getting 80 quid or so. He was so delighted when we handed over a grand to him.

Also we had several monitored customers. This one guy was about 15k down from his betting since they started monitoring his bets. In the couple of weeks before I left he took the shop for about 5k. Blind betting on dogs, blind betting on horses, betting on 5/6 rapido red or black bets. Just about everything he touched was a winner. They stopped taking his bets. I thought this was laughable as he was just a very rich gambler that did it for the crack when pissed.

This is the first year that I have monitored my on betting that I am down. I am sitting at 18% down on my total revenues gambled. Four years I have monitored every bet I make, and have used this information to stream line where I make money and where I lose it. Make adjustments and start again. I have shitebagged out of some bets, and bias has cost me a few trades. I find it more difficult to get bets on these days. I have never seen the point in playing FOBTs.

[Aufc]

Had £2 in my pocket this morning when passing WH so stuck 10 numbers on the 20p roulette. Walked out a minute late an extra £5.20 up after one spin. Might not be much but it was such an enjoyable moment. My rule of thumb with the FOBTs is never stick in any amount you can make up using a note. (£1 notes excluded obvs)

The bookies must have had to shut after paying your winnings

[H_B]

Out of interest, how often do you think people will come out in profit after 100,000 spins of roulette?

I know, silly me for thinking you can't beat a game with the odds firmly stacked against you. .

Well its good to see that the odds on you making a c**t of yourself in this thread went from 1/10 to 1/1000,

Who exactly has mentioned 100,000 spins of roulette?

Where your fail began here (if we're ignoring for a sec your fucking atrocious understanding of addiction) is that you equated probability with certainty. An exercise in arrant stupidity.

Which is why you are being pointed and laughed at. And your contribution is being read through finger tips.

Carry on though. Your utter fail here is extremely entertaining.

[H_B]

1000 or 2000 spins? Sure, it's possible to be up.

Well this is progress of a sort.

You are perhaps beginning to realise the utter p***k of yourself you have made here

Nice David Icke tinfoil hat 666 reference too there. Just in case not everyone had realized yet you are an utter fruit loop.

[mid-table]

My two pence;

Don't ban but restrict maximum stake to somewhere between £2 and £5 per spin for roulette, and 50p per spin for slots. My life would be significantly better over the last 14 years if those maximum stakes had been in place. I would still play them but I would have gained far more enjoyment out of them.

To the people who can't understand how some people can become addicted, that's fine, I don't understand everything either. But just because I don't understand it doesn't mean I don't accept it as truth.

A quick example of how something can quickly escalate is here http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php/topic/196804-scots-punters-wagered-l4200000000-on-fobts-in-1-year/?p=8020561

As for the documentary, it was everything I expected;

Manager is a company man who believes the company are trying to help people, but he wants to make as much money as possible.

A number of customers who love their time in the shop and without that community and continuity would have fairly empty lives.

A few people who live desperate lives as slaves to the FOBTs.

[trainspotter]

As for the documentary, it was everything I expected;

Manager is a company man who believes the company are trying to help people, but he wants to make as much money as possible.

A number of customers who love their time in the shop and without that community and continuity would have fairly empty lives.

A few people who live desperate lives as slaves to the FOBTs.

Slightly OT but I have similar feelings every time I see a contribution from this (or any) year's Betting Shop Manager of the Year in the Racing Post. Unless you are willing to be a shameless apologist for the betting industry on a regular, i.e. daily, basis, you have no chance of winning this award. Describing your own shop as being "vibrant", "full of characters", and "playing a vital part in the community" are to be expected. It certainly doesn't match my experience of betting shops in the Glasgow area.

[mid-table]

Slightly OT but I have similar feelings every time I see a contribution from this (or any) year's Betting Shop Manager of the Year in the Racing Post. Unless you are willing to be a shameless apologist for the betting industry on a regular, i.e. daily, basis, you have no chance of winning this award. Describing your own shop as being "vibrant", "full of characters", and "playing a vital part in the community" are to be expected. It certainly doesn't match my experience of betting shops in the Glasgow area.

It's a bit of a paradox. Betting shops can greatly enhance the lives of people, especially elderly people. Gives them structure in their day, people to meet, and keeps their brains active.

They tend not to bet much money though, so the bookmaker needs to prey on the vulnerable as well.

[Fudge]

BAN PEOPLE TO TWO CANS OF LAGER AT THE OFF LICENCE

[H_B]

It's a bit of a paradox. Betting shops can greatly enhance the lives of people, especially elderly people. Gives them structure in their day, people to meet, and keeps their brains active.

They tend not to bet much money though, so the bookmaker needs to prey on the vulnerable as well.

Good posts. Agree with all that.

I was in Betfred the other day to get their extra odds boost for the darts and saw they had Fred Done in their studio as the dogs were on mid morning.

He managed to get out with a straight face, turned to camera.. 'The last thing we want here is problem gamblers. Bet to yer pocket'

Eh, nice try Fred. The exact thing you do want is problem gamblers. Ideally you'd love a lot more of them. No one's buying the fake concern.

But in Stirling there are loads of old men that congregate in the bookies every day. Its warm..they get free coffee and tea.. Chat to the staff if they don't have buddies.. And put on their 2p lucky 15s.

This can only be paid for and tolerated of course because the guy who walks in from the street and drops 1300 quid into a FOBT in 15 mins then leaves.

Though actually here I've seen as many women in playing FOBTs than men. Often Asian women.

[Loki]

It's a bit of a paradox. Betting shops can greatly enhance the lives of people, especially elderly people. Gives them structure in their day, people to meet, and keeps their brains active.

They tend not to bet much money though, so the bookmaker needs to prey on the vulnerable as well.

We had quite a few customer that would come in every afternoon to watch the races and have very low ball bets on forecasts and really old school bets. But as you say it gave them structure to their lives, and they were out meeting people and engaging with people. Research has shown that any mental work you do can help fight the onset of dementia, and them working out their bets certainly keeps them active. One guy would work out in his head to the precise penny how much he should get, and would point out rounding errors in his winnings.

It was these guys that my manager was trying to get on the machines, but it wasn't just her fault. She was under a lot of pressure to turn the shop around.

Good posts. Agree with all that.

I was in Betfred the other day to get their extra odds boost for the darts and saw they had Fred Done in their studio as the dogs were on mid morning.

He managed to get out with a straight face, turned to camera.. 'The last thing we want here is problem gamblers. Bet to yer pocket'

Eh, nice try Fred. The exact thing you do want is problem gamblers. Ideally you'd love a lot more of them. No one's buying the fake concern.

But in Stirling there are loads of old men that congregate in the bookies every day. Its warm..they get free coffee and tea.. Chat to the staff if they don't have buddies.. And put on their 2p lucky 15s.

This can only be paid for and tolerated of course because the guy who walks in from the street and drops 1300 quid into a FOBT in 15 mins then leaves.

Though actually here I've seen as many women in playing FOBTs than men. Often Asian women.

I agree whole heartedly with this. The show made it sound like the big bookies came together to start this gamble awareness campaign, but it is a legal requirement for them to do so. They would quite happily never take these old guys bets if they didn't need to operate a sports book to supply the shop with FOBTs

[AyrshireTon]

Bookies are legally required to do the gambling awareness thing and rightly so.

Who does the same thing in a high street arcade which has far more betting machines (along with the pinball and all that)? Never heard of someone being told be a cashier in the arcades that they've spent enough and they're barred for a year.

Be interesting to know if these are subject to the same regulations (and taxation) as the bookies' machines are.