Liverpool City Council Ban FOBTs In Betting Shops

[NotThePars]

1 hour ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

A stake limit of £20.

A membership/account card required to play.

Alter the software so the games spin slower.

An automatic time limit per gaming session. With the ability to further limit the time/stake via the membership card.

Reducing shop opening hours.

More time and money invested in staff with regards to responsible gambling.

A requirement that the company puts a % of profit towards responsible gambling.

Put an end to promotions and free spins.

 

These are all good suggestions* and tbf things we've suggested before to higher brass. I think it's their inability to be really proactive (things such as membership cards to bypass 50+ stake restrictions exist but are easily circumvented) that's ultimately led to this. There's an increasing focus in shops on machine game of the week targets which is allegedly down to bookmakers trialing "gaming shops" which dispense with the otc betting and hence the restrictions on the number of machines in shops.

 

*I'd fucking love a 6-8pm finish. It's a fucking a pain in the arse sitting to 10 because one person *might* come in for five minutes and spend a couple of hundred quid. 

Edited May 17, 2018 by NotThePars

[ayrmad]

43 minutes ago, ali_91 said:

There’s studies that have shown problem gambling was .6% of the population in the early noughties and still .6% now. Anecdotal, emotional evidence is more prevalent as people can share their stories on social media, but problem gambling has always been there and always will be there. Like everything that is fun, it can be addictive. 

 

Those studies are not comparable, 2012 to 2015 up from .6% to.8%, not huge when you say it % of population terms but an increase of a third in 3 years.

Not been to GA for a long while but I'd be surprised if there aren't far more meetings in Scotland and far more inquiries in Scotland in recent years compared to a decade or 2 ago, it was certainly getting busier when I was involved.

[ayrmad]

1 hour ago, ICTChris said:

The number of bookmakers has remained pretty steady for the last few years.  There are actually around half the number of bookies shops that there were in the 1960s.

Hardly surprising.

[sparky88]

Good job we have the UK and Scottish governments to help us decide how much to gamble and drink.  

[Loki]

The bookies may have to start taking sports bets again.....

[Guest bernardblack]

I've witnessed some shocking spending on these machines....only for people to come back in 5mins later and spend more.

Excellent decision to limit these

[SweeperDee]

I’ve watched someone blow £5000 savings over the course of 3 days on these, knowing full well they had things to pay for, including providing for their family. They target the most vulnerable to addictive behaviour, of that there is not doubt.

[vikingTON]

5 hours ago, ayrmad said:

Those studies are not comparable, 2012 to 2015 up from .6% to.8%, not huge when you say it % of population terms but an increase of a third in 3 years.

There is no chance of the above being a statistically reliable result - the margin of error in any survey completely overwhelms such small percentages.

[ayrmad]

2 hours ago, virginton said:

There is no chance of the above being a statistically reliable result - the margin of error in any survey completely overwhelms such small percentages.

There's no result regarding FBOT's that are statistically reliable, the 95% confidence interval covers about 300,000 of something reported in the 400k's.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

9 hours ago, NotThePars said:

 

These are all good suggestions* and tbf things we've suggested before to higher brass. I think it's their inability to be really proactive (things such as membership cards to bypass 50+ stake restrictions exist but are easily circumvented) that's ultimately led to this. There's an increasing focus in shops on machine game of the week targets which is allegedly down to bookmakers trialing "gaming shops" which dispense with the otc betting and hence the restrictions on the number of machines in shops.

 

*I'd fucking love a 6-8pm finish. It's a fucking a pain in the arse sitting to 10 because one person *might* come in for five minutes and spend a couple of hundred quid. 

They're just common sense suggestions and they should have been implemented a long time ago. For too long the industry paid little more than lip service to the issue of responsible gambling ( it has improved recently tbf ). That, and greed has now led to this drastic cut. Troubling times for them as their sportsbooks are seriously undercut by the online firms.

Interesting point you make about the 'gaming shops'. I think this where it will eventually end up. With stakes reduced to £2 it's possible that the govt may relax the number of FOBT permitted. Most of the smaller lbo's will close and we'll have a lot fewer but bigger 'supermarket' style outlets filled with machines and the self service terminals with a limited number of bets being taken otc.

[Jacksgranda]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44155138

The £2.00 limit won't come in here because we've no Executive, therefore no minister to enact the legislation required.

[Alert Mongoose]

May have been answered before but will this cover the online versions of these machines?

[19QOS19]

I’ve watched someone blow £5000 savings over the course of 3 days on these, knowing full well they had things to pay for, including providing for their family. They target the most vulnerable to addictive behaviour, of that there is not doubt.

I don't see how that is anyone's fault other than the person blowing his family's money.

[SweeperDee]

I don't see how that is anyone's fault other than the person blowing his family's money.

It’s absolutely his fault that he put the money into the terminal; however these terminals actively appeal to those who are predisposed to addictive behaviour. They are designed to be addictive. It makes a mockery of the whole “when the fun stops, stop” campaign.

[19QOS19]

It’s absolutely his fault that he put the money into the terminal; however these terminals actively appeal to those who are predisposed to addictive behaviour. They are designed to be addictive. It makes a mockery of the whole “when the fun stops, stop” campaign.

I just feel we seem to live in a state where folk refuse to take responsibility for their own actions. I briefly worked in a bookies so I'm aware of the money folk would plow into the machines but I don't get the public outrage at these things. It's a bookies and the majority of the folk entering the shops are going to lose money one way or another, in the same way the majority of folk entering a pub are going to get pished. A similar situation is the covering of tobacco products - those bad shops advertising products, how dare they! Get them covered. The next step will be to cover the pumps in a pub.

[ayrmad]

2 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:

 

I just feel we seem to live in a state where folk refuse to take responsibility for their own actions. I briefly worked in a bookies so I'm aware of the money folk would plow into the machines but I don't get the public outrage at these things. It's a bookies and the majority of the folk entering the shops are going to lose money one way or another, in the same way the majority of folk entering a pub are going to get pished. A similar situation is the covering of tobacco products - those bad shops advertising products, how dare they! Get them covered. The next step will be to cover the pumps in a pub.

 

This is not about people losing money, this is about the gambling industry developing opportunities that target people with addictive personalities.

Taking responsibility for your actions is fine but that doesn't hide the fact that the government have allowed the gambling industry to act like smack dealers outside the school gates for well over a decade now.

[19QOS19]

This is not about people losing money, this is about the gambling industry developing opportunities that target people with addictive personalities.
Taking responsibility for your actions is fine but that doesn't hide the fact that the government have allowed the gambling industry to act like smack dealers outside the school gates for well over a decade now.

Again, I don't see how it's any different to alcohol though. Both very serious problems. Alcohol gets just as much advertising space as gambling and there are as many pubs on the high street (well, for now) as bookies. Isn't there something about bookies not being allowed to put promotions in their windows now either? Whereas pubs can puts specials on the boards outside. I just find some of the stuff very hypocritical in our society. Gambling seems to have this negative stigma attached to it but alcohol (a far bigger problem) doesn't have any such thing. I know the minimum pricing is in place now but as far as I'm aware that doesn't really effect the pub game.

[SlipperyP]

Again, I don't see how it's any different to alcohol though. Both very serious problems. Alcohol gets just as much advertising space as gambling and there are as many pubs on the high street (well, for now) as bookies. Isn't there something about bookies not being allowed to put promotions in their windows now either? Whereas pubs can puts specials on the boards outside. I just find some of the stuff very hypocritical in our society. Gambling seems to have this negative stigma attached to it but alcohol (a far bigger problem) doesn't have any such thing. I know the minimum pricing is in place now but as far as I'm aware that doesn't really effect the pub game.

Landlords or pub staff can & will refuse you drink if they think you have had too much. I don't think in bookies they can do that, if you have the cash you can gamble.

[SweeperDee]

Landlords or pub staff can & will refuse you drink if they think you have had too much. I don't think in bookies they can do that, if you have the cash you can gamble.

You can ask bookies to set a limit on you; wonder how often this “limit” gets upped when the guy losing money says that next time will be the last time. They’re absolute sharks.

[NotThePars]

You’re supposed to refuse service to people who show signs of problem gambling but someone can sit there losing thousands without any obvious outward signs of distress. Everyone’s idea of distress varies as well. Someone might see swearing at a machine as a sign and others will wait until they’re flipping the machines over.