Bitcoin/cryptocurrency thread

[Granny Danger]

21 minutes ago, iron mike python said:

 

There are a number of people in this forum that can help you if there is something you are not understanding. For example you seem to think that Bitcoin would be too volatile for you at its current price point (and that is a reasonable view to have)

BUT one of the biggest uses of cryptocurrency is the Stable Coin market (synthetic version of USD) which is pegged to the price of the Dollar. You can then lend this for at least 5% (image below) in a contract that has been audited dozens of times over 2 years and has no middleman making your money disappear. You can withdraw whenever you like and nobody can stop you. 

Much better than the interest you get in your current account I'm sure?

Over the last six years in my SIPP I have averaged 15.4% annualised growth.  That’s not a boast as its not been difficult and I’m sure others will have done better.

[Suspect Device]

12 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Over the last six years in my SIPP I have averaged 15.4% annualised growth.  That’s not a boast as its not been difficult and I’m sure others will have done better.

I have. 

 

Edit: Forgot to add that I'm not a millionaire either. 

Edited September 8, 2021 by Suspect Device

[iron mike python]

19 minutes ago, Brummie Clyde said:

I kind of understand some of the nice things about Cryto Currency, such as not having to use banks and understand about Block Chains and how they regulate the currency value.

However, I don't think I've ever actually seen where you can spend this currency.

Also, you have dodgy ones like Onecoin, with is the Crypto Currency version of Scientology, even seems to have a slightly religious element.

One Coin was/is a complete scam. It isn't even a crypto currency. It is a closed system. It doesn't use blockchain technology.

With regards of how to spend it, you can use plenty of centralised services to spend like you would any other card. Coinbase have a card, Crypto.com have a card, Gemini have a card. They usually take a percentage of the transaction but it does the job you are wanting it to do.... buy physical items with Crypto

[DiegoDiego]

Over the last six years in my SIPP I have averaged 15.4% annualised growth.  That’s not a boast as its not been difficult and I’m sure others will have done better.

I've probably been getting 15.4% weekly growth on my crypto. That's not a boast as it's not been difficult and I'm sure others will have done better.

[Granny Danger]

17 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

I've probably been getting 15.4% weekly growth on my crypto. That's not a boast as it's not been difficult and I'm sure others will have done better.

Talking shite thread for this.

[DiegoDiego]

Talking shite thread for this.

Bitcoin has risen 38461% in the last six years. You'd do well to cut out the wilful ignorance.

[Granny Danger]

1 minute ago, DiegoDiego said:

15 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Talking shite thread for this.

Bitcoin has risen 38461% in the last six years. You'd do well to cut out the wilful ignorance.

That’s not the same as saying your investment in Bitcoin has risen by that amount.  If you had bought one (or one part) of a coin six years ago that single investment would have grown by that amount.  Not adding or changing in that period would be a very strange ‘investment’ strategy.

[Suspect Device]

6 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

19 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Talking shite thread for this.

Bitcoin has risen 38461% in the last six years. You'd do well to cut out the wilful ignorance.

It might be the fact you used the exact same figures for your weekly figures that made him question the veracity of your claim.

Edit sorry, exact wording.

 

 

Edited September 8, 2021 by Suspect Device

[DiegoDiego]

It might be the fact you used the exact same figures for your weekly figures that made him question the veracity of your claim.
Edit sorry, exact wording.
 
 

I said "probably" to indicate I wasn't being exact. I used to same figure as him to make a point. The point being that while 15% apy is very nice indeed (and I congratulate him on that), a large percentage of people in crypto have made gains orders of magnitude larger than that.

The ones who have lost money are, as with the stock market or almost any investment, those who are in it for the short term, using money they can't afford to lose, and subsequently panic.

[Zetterlund]

On 07/09/2021 at 14:55, gaz5 said:

That value absolutely does exist. Not in a physical "product" but in a service or utility that the projects provide.

I know it's not a popular one, but it's an easy example: XRP.

Removing the requirement to park billions of dollars in nostro/vostro accounts in banks around the world, removing the 5-30 day clearing time for settlement performed by SWIFT and the counterparty risk that fits with that delay and opening up payment corridors to anywhere in the world without established bank to bank relationships.

ODL (On Demand Liquidity) is a game changer for global settlement and opens the door for CDBC's.

It's a really easy example of utility in the technology that is solving a real world problem.

One of many.

Something that I don't get about XRP, although I admit I've never followed it too closely other than what I see shared in the crypto space generally (and the XRP maxis are worse than the bitcoin ones ).

No doubt the technology is impressive and in theory could be a game changer in how the financial system operates. Also let's assume all the hype is true and all the major institutions are lining up to use it. Why on Earth would they all buy XRP at the market, out of the hands of all the maxis waiting for $10,000 per coin? Why would they not just say to Ripple - great job lads, sign us up on a fresh blockchain with a new supply of coins.

It doesn't make sense that the financial system would use a publicly-traded investment vehicle as the fundamental gears of the whole system, when they could simply pay Ripple for a closed system not at the mercy of the whims of retail investors. To me, XRP has only ever been a way for Ripple to fund themselves to the point of actually going 'live'.

[gaz5]

Something that I don't get about XRP, although I admit I've never followed it too closely other than what I see shared in the crypto space generally (and the XRP maxis are worse than the bitcoin ones [emoji1]).
No doubt the technology is impressive and in theory could be a game changer in how the financial system operates. Also let's assume all the hype is true and all the major institutions are lining up to use it. Why on Earth would they all buy XRP at the market, out of the hands of all the maxis waiting for $10,000 per coin? Why would they not just say to Ripple - great job lads, sign us up on a fresh blockchain with a new supply of coins.
It doesn't make sense that the financial system would use a publicly-traded investment vehicle as the fundamental gears of the whole system, when they could simply pay Ripple for a closed system not at the mercy of the whims of retail investors. To me, XRP has only ever been a way for Ripple to fund themselves to the point of actually going 'live'.

The answer is pretty simple. To use the system for it's intended purpose the price of XRP for utility doesn't matter to institutions, only that enough liquidity exists to handle the number of transactions they need to process.

The utility for large institutions is the "on demand liquidity", that means they don't have to park billions in offshore accounts that they can't use just in case they need to settle a debt, and that on demand liquidity being used for near instant settlement anywhere in the world.

They are essentially buying XRP to settle a contract, sending it to someone straight after purchase and that someone instantly selling it (which is the purpose) so the price for the institutions using it doesn't matter, outside of that buy and sell and the 30s in between the price being stable enough not to create a large spread. But given the current methods use $ as a bridge currency and take 5-30 days (if a payment corridor exists) that ForEx risk already exists.

The whole point though is that they DONT hold it for any length of time. That's the Nostro/Vostro (locked up, unusable) liquidity problem it solves. Its bought and sold as required.

$10000 per coin is madness, utterly Fantasyland stuff and I do giggle at that myself. I could see it go 3 figures, but not in the near future. $4-$10 max this cycle IMO, the top end of that only with a settlement with the SEC.

The draw of having a coin like XRP is that if they had their own, and they all had their own, then there would be trust issues as they would ask each need to trust each other (the CBDC problem).

With a central coin, freely traded on an open market, no one entity controls it, so you remove that counterparty risk.

It's why I think something like Ripple (maybe not Ripple) will be required for a bridge for CBDCs. And I think that's where they're angling their side ledgers at, with the XRPL as the central master ledger.

But as someone who has a working knowledge of the SWIFT system, which Ripple is looking to replace and does around $5T a day in throughout, grabbing even 5% of that market share in future should drive utility based pricing for the coin.

[Sergeant Wilson]

10 hours ago, gaz5 said:

 

 

The answer is pretty simple. To use the system for it's intended purpose the price of XRP for utility doesn't matter to institutions, only that enough liquidity exists to handle the number of transactions they need to process.

The utility for large institutions is the "on demand liquidity", that means they don't have to park billions in offshore accounts that they can't use just in case they need to settle a debt, and that on demand liquidity being used for near instant settlement anywhere in the world.

They are essentially buying XRP to settle a contract, sending it to someone straight after purchase and that someone instantly selling it (which is the purpose) so the price for the institutions using it doesn't matter, outside of that buy and sell and the 30s in between the price being stable enough not to create a large spread. But given the current methods use $ as a bridge currency and take 5-30 days (if a payment corridor exists) that ForEx risk already exists.

The whole point though is that they DONT hold it for any length of time. That's the Nostro/Vostro (locked up, unusable) liquidity problem it solves. Its bought and sold as required.

$10000 per coin is madness, utterly Fantasyland stuff and I do giggle at that myself. I could see it go 3 figures, but not in the near future. $4-$10 max this cycle IMO, the top end of that only with a settlement with the SEC.

The draw of having a coin like XRP is that if they had their own, and they all had their own, then there would be trust issues as they would ask each need to trust each other (the CBDC problem).

With a central coin, freely traded on an open market, no one entity controls it, so you remove that counterparty risk.

It's why I think something like Ripple (maybe not Ripple) will be required for a bridge for CBDCs. And I think that's where they're angling their side ledgers at, with the XRPL as the central master ledger.

But as someone who has a working knowledge of the SWIFT system, which Ripple is looking to replace and does around $5T a day in throughout, grabbing even 5% of that market share in future should drive utility based pricing for the coin.
 

 

I see.

[Suspect Device]

A question. I noticed amongst the 51 different types of crypto I could purchase on my Revolut app, that there's Bitcoincash as well as bitcoin. Anyone care to tell me the difference. Apart from only being £486 instead of £33.5k.

Edited September 9, 2021 by Suspect Device

[Detournement]

54 minutes ago, Suspect Device said:

A question. I noticed amongst the 51 different types of crypto I could purchase on my Revolut app, that there's Bitcoincash as well as bitcoin. Anyone care to tell me the difference. Apart from only being £486 instead of £33.5k.

I can remember something about a disagreement about how the blockchain should work and people described it as a 'fork' with one blockchain turning into two different ones. 

The fork the majority of the users supported remained Bitcoin and the diddy one is BitcoinCash.

[iron mike python]

1 hour ago, Suspect Device said:

A question. I noticed amongst the 51 different types of crypto I could purchase on my Revolut app, that there's Bitcoincash as well as bitcoin. Anyone care to tell me the difference. Apart from only being £486 instead of £33.5k.

It was the biggest argument in Crypto a few years ago. Basically there was a disagreement about the "block size" and they aimed to make Bitcoin 'better' for transactions to occur. The majority of the Bitcoin community decided that this was not a good idea because it would reduce security. Bitcoin Cash also got co-opted by some shady people and has since forked once again. (A similar fork has happened between Ethereum and Ethereum Classic so be careful)

If you are buying on Revolut just be aware that you are trusting Revolut that they are actually purchasing the Bitcoin for you. It is a good baby step into having familiarity with these assets.

[Suspect Device]

22 minutes ago, iron mike python said:

It was the biggest argument in Crypto a few years ago. Basically there was a disagreement about the "block size" and they aimed to make Bitcoin 'better' for transactions to occur. The majority of the Bitcoin community decided that this was not a good idea because it would reduce security. Bitcoin Cash also got co-opted by some shady people and has since forked once again. (A similar fork has happened between Ethereum and Ethereum Classic so be careful)

If you are buying on Revolut just be aware that you are trusting Revolut that they are actually purchasing the Bitcoin for you. It is a good baby step into having familiarity with these assets.

 

The whole financial system is built on trust when it comes down to it. I've been 'reliably informed' that my Gold ETF might not actually have the physical gold since the numbers don't add up between the actual physical gold in the world and the amount of gold which is theoretically held in all the ETFs. Whether that's true or not, I just don't know. The guy who reliably informed me is a gold obsessive though who is always expecting the financial ponzi scheme to come crashing down and his physical gold stash to be his saviour.

I have to trust Interactive investor to actually hold the stocks in my ISA and SIPP. 

It even comes down to trust in the promise to pay the bearer on demand on my banknotes.

I don't think I'm going to get any crypto but it's always good to read up on stuff anyway.

[DiegoDiego]

Solana is fucking insane. Gone from 6% to 20% of my portfolio in 6 weeks. +500% in that time.

El Salvador: "We bought the dip!"
Solana: "What dip?"

I also got some Serum a few months ago. The concept sounds good and SBF isn't a bad horse to be backing. I was a bit worried that I was essentially doubling down on Solana though as Serum's success will be closely linked to Solana's, but it looks to be paying off. Up 40% today.

[iron mike python]

2 minutes ago, Suspect Device said:

 

The whole financial system is built on trust when it comes down to it. I've been 'reliably informed' that my Gold ETF might not actually have the physical gold since the numbers don't add up between the actual physical gold in the world and the amount of gold which is theoretically held in all the ETFs. Whether that's true or not, I just don't know. The guy who reliably informed me is a gold obsessive though who is always expecting the financial ponzi scheme to come crashing down and his physical gold stash to be his saviour.

I have to trust Interactive investor to actually hold the stocks in my ISA and SIPP. 

It even comes down to trust in the promise to pay the bearer on demand on my banknotes.

I don't think I'm going to get any crypto but it's always good to read up on stuff anyway.

This is the reason that crypto gets its value. Bitcoiners use the term "Verify!, don't trust".

Basically everything on a decentralized blockchain can be verified if you put the effort in. 

Decentralisation is a spectrum and within crypto, assets and applications have their own sets of trust assumptions and you would have to put the effort in to see this being true (running your own Bitcoin/Eth node would be the pinnacle of this). 

You raise a very good point about gold and that is why people are more excited about Bitcoin than gold. We can see exactly who owns how many Bitcoin, thousands and thousands of computing units around the world are working to ensure this is known exactly. With Gold...... we don't really know and we need to trust. Also will synthetic gold become so good it is indistinguishable one day? Will an asteroid show up and be mined for gold?

 

[Kapowzer]

I've got sizeable chunks of Etherium and Etherium Classic, reading above is the classic tainted?

[Suspect Device]

5 minutes ago, iron mike python said:

This is the reason that crypto gets its value. Bitcoiners use the term "Verify!, don't trust".

Basically everything on a decentralized blockchain can be verified if you put the effort in. 

Decentralisation is a spectrum and within crypto, assets and applications have their own sets of trust assumptions and you would have to put the effort in to see this being true (running your own Bitcoin/Eth node would be the pinnacle of this). 

You raise a very good point about gold and that is why people are more excited about Bitcoin than gold. We can see exactly who owns how many Bitcoin, thousands and thousands of computing units around the world are working to ensure this is known exactly. With Gold...... we don't really know and we need to trust. Also will synthetic gold become so good it is indistinguishable one day? Will an asteroid show up and be mined for gold?

 

 

Ha! That's a coincidence. The guy who was trying to get me to buy into Bitcoin 10 years back was also keen on investing in space mining operations. 

If I'd listened to him about bitcoin I'd be considerably richer today but no point crying over spilt milk.