Bankies Alive Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 The SJFA are asking clubs but they could just do an SFA and do it anyway and say if any clubs want to stay in District Football then they could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Northerner Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 The SJFA are asking clubs but they could just do an SFA and do it anyway and say if any clubs want to stay in District Football then they could. I think that the SJFA would be barking mad if they tried to bring this in if the membership aren't convinced. This will need to be ratified at an AGM as it adds to the role of the SJFA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 The advantage the SFA apparatchiks have is that they can get the two thirds of their membership that are not nonleague senior clubs to vote for any changes that they plan at the nonleague senior level. At the same time though they can only push so hard because they may need the backing of the nonleague seniors on other issues, so you wind up with a "pyramid" that caters to the nonleague seniors (well over thirty votes) more than the juniors given the latter only have three votes (SJFA, Girvan and Linlithgow Rose). In a junior context, there is no larger block of voters that are not directly involved so the SJFA management committee have to get a majority to agree and can't just ram it through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Northerner Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 The advantage the SFA apparatchiks have is that they can get the two thirds of their membership that are not nonleague senior clubs to vote for any changes that they plan at the nonleague senior level. At the same time though they can only push so hard because they may need the backing of the nonleague seniors on other issues, so you wind up with a "pyramid" that caters to the nonleague seniors (well over thirty votes) more than the juniors given the latter only have three votes (SJFA, Girvan and Linlithgow Rose). In a junior context, there is no larger block of voters that are not directly involved so the SJFA management committee have to get a majority to agree and can't just ram it through. The famed "neutrality" kicking in again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 What on earth do you mean by that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Northerner Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 What on earth do you mean by that? That you don't need much of an excuse to put the boot into the SFA - even when the subject of a thread has precious little to do with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Some people don't appear to be able to move beyond a simplistic binary argument mindset. This is what I was responding to: The SJFA are asking clubs but they could just do an SFA and do it anyway and say if any clubs want to stay in District Football then they could. There's a reason why the SJFA can't do what the SFA are sometimes able to get away with because of the differing internal voting structures of the two associations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I did think about adding this to the curremt pyramid/LL thread but the implementation of the Combined League would be independant of joining any pyramid Text of proposal and schematic sent to East and West clubs attached Reconstuction Proposals.pdf Restructure Schematic.pdf So basically confirming what we knew, i.e. 16 East clubs but only 12 West clubs being invited to enter, and no access for North Juniors at all. Don't quite follow the governance. It says SJFA itself (hence: Tom Johnston and the national committee?) will run it, get sponsorship, etc. but does that no mean 'direct' club representation akin to current regions? Can the North Junior clubs vote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 As things stand the national association only run the Junior Cup in terms of competitions. The superleagues are run separately by the officeholders of each of the three regions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 That's what I mean. At the moment there are 3 regions - basically leagues, although I think some of them run cups directly while others are at arms length notionally at least - and clubs in each region elect their own office bearers, committee/Board, and there are regular club meetings. However, this proposal doesn't form a Southern Junior League or a Southern Region, it just makes the SJFA responsible. I find that somewhat surprising. It would be like the SFA having founded the LL but run it by itself, not as its own league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Northerner Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Some people don't appear to be able to move beyond a simplistic binary argument mindset. This is what I was responding to: The SJFA are asking clubs but they could just do an SFA and do it anyway and say if any clubs want to stay in District Football then they could. There's a reason why the SJFA can't do what the SFA are sometimes able to get away with because of the differing internal voting structures of the two associations. Your language gives you away - it's quite obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Northerner Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Can the North Junior clubs vote? I don't think they even got a copy of the proposals - they are addressed to East and West clubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Your language gives you away - it's quite obvious. I genuinely have no idea what you are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Northerner Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I genuinely have no idea what you are talking about. I can believe that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Bit alarming on any board when a moderator starts to behave like this. I think his problem is that he interprets any criticism of the SFA as support for the SJFA in a simple binary good/bad sort of way and can't get his head around more nuanced sets of arguments that are critical of both associations at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Northerner Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Bit alarming on any board when a moderator starts to behave like this. I think his problem is that he interprets any criticism of the SFA as support for the SJFA in a simple binary good/bad sort of way and can't get his head around more nuanced sets of arguments that are critical of both associations at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Northerner Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Can the North Junior clubs vote? Having thought about this a bit more: whilst the proposals were only sent out to the East/West clubs, I'd guess that any implementation would need ratification at AGM. I can't think of any mechanism that would deny North clubs a vote at that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clash city rocker Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Having thought about this a bit more: whilst the proposals were only sent out to the East/West clubs, I'd guess that any implementation would need ratification at AGM. I can't think of any mechanism that would deny North clubs a vote at that Neither can i. It all seems rather strange,surely the SJFA have something different in mind for North clubs,this sounds like they are asking or hoping that the North clubs will vote themselves out of the juniors or from being part of any sooperdooper set up at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 The obvious thing for the north region to do in a pyramid environment is to hook up with the Highland League as one of its feeder divisions (North Caledonian league would be the other if it doesn't fold due to lack of numbers). Unlike in the central belt there's no question as to what the pecking order should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 The obvious thing for the north region to do in a pyramid environment is to hook up with the Highland League as one of its feeder divisions (North Caledonian league would be the other if it doesn't fold due to lack of numbers). Unlike in the central belt there's no question as to what the pecking order should be. I suspect the best of the North Juniors might argue about pecking order and tumbling in below the worst of the HFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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